2016 Postmortem

RiverNoord

(1,150 posts)

219. That's highly debatable.

Thu Jul 16, 2015, 12:44 PM

Jul 2015

'Vote for Dems, or you're implicitly helping the GOP ruin the country.' If you don't pre-commit to hand over your vote to Democratic candidates, whoever they may be, you're culpable as a party to the ruination of the country?

Your perspective is part of the problem, which is much bigger than the fact that the GOP is dedicated to privatizing the federal government so that its functions are available for sale to the highest bidders. The Democratic wing is also deeply immersed in that initiative.

Your way never, every allows for substantial change in the process of governance of our country, since each wing is deeply committed to gaining and maintaining their grasp on political power. Little by little, regardless of which wing has the temporary advantage, all other possible means of electing candidates to political office are cut off.

Oh - BTW, I don't know if you were around in 1992, but Bill Clinton became president because of the presence of a kook who siphoned off votes from the GOP. It can go both ways. And you say 'They tried your way in 2000.' I assume you mean the handful of votes that Ralph Nader received as a candidate for President. Did that really cost Al Gore the presidency? If it did, and it is highly unlikely that it is so, then he didn't merit the office on the basis of support of the American people. If you say our political system can't handle votes for anyone other than the Democratic or Republican candidates for political office, than you have proven my point. We no longer have a representative democracy. We have a one-party (two, if you must cling to the notion) hegemony that owns the American government and sells it off to the highest bidders. In that case, there is only one option if you really want to be a 'good guy,' and that is to vote only for candidates you are comfortable sending to particular offices. Otherwise, you are explicitly helping a bribery racket utterly devour the country.

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Please STOP TELLING ME I'll Vote for Hillary Clinton Because I'M A CHICK. [View all] Segami Jul 2015 OP

Sold out to the powers that be. LWolf Jul 2015 #1

This message was self-deleted by its author George II Jul 2015 #52

If Hillary sold out she would be a much richer person: She's working for America lewebley3 Jul 2015 #197

Corporate America, specifically. Jester Messiah Jul 2015 #204

Yes, I have: No one owns Hillary: that is Sanders supporters lie lewebley3 Jul 2015 #207

Hillary Clinton Hauled in $47.5 million in her first 3 months d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #234

Hillary is raising more money because she has a lot of people who love and support her lewebley3 Jul 2015 #243

No kidding. Even those dudes on Wall Street love her. d_legendary1 Jul 2015 #244

Yes, most of New York and American loves Hillary: Even the people without money! lewebley3 Jul 2015 #245

Somehow I got on Emily's List e-mail list Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #2

I too unsubscribed after being a long time subscriber. Enthusiast Jul 2015 #46

I unsubscribed too MissDeeds Jul 2015 #68

Insulting, isn't it? They think they speak for all women. I want a LEADER sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #147

Apparently you weren't aware of the mission of Emily's List. Skinner Jul 2015 #193

I am very aware of the Mission of Emily's List, Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #200

Your use of "also" in the last sentence gave me a chuckle. (nt) Skinner Jul 2015 #201

Well, I always like to brighten someone's day if I can. Le Taz Hot Jul 2015 #202

The get of emily's list who need you! lewebley3 Jul 2015 #198

I've always been allergic to arrogance, smugness Voice for Peace Jul 2015 #231

You'd think they'd have caught a clue by now Warpy Jul 2015 #233

I and I would bet almost everybody on DU Stevepol Jul 2015 #237

Yeah because Sarah Palin, Ann Coulter, and Michele Bachmann... JaneyVee Jul 2015 #3

Are Angela Merkel and Margaret Thatcher nutjobs? passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #26

I wouldn't vote for either of them either. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #31

I wasn't sure, but thanks for clarifying passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #42

No.Thatcher wa not a strong woman. Far from it. She wasn't 'quite the ticket' and things Joe Chi Minh Jul 2015 #168

Maybe strong is the wrong word passiveporcupine Jul 2015 #181

I knew what you meant, really. I was just making a point, my hobby-horse about Joe Chi Minh Jul 2015 #246

Even putting those idiots in the same "category" as Hillary demonstrates just how lacking the author still_one Jul 2015 #79

it's a debunking of the "becuase she's a woman" argument Scootaloo Jul 2015 #133

That is true. However, I think the argument that someone votes for someone because of gender, race, still_one Jul 2015 #136

And that's what the author of the piece is arguing against, if you read what she wrote Scootaloo Jul 2015 #137

sure, but it is preaching to the choir still_one Jul 2015 #140

Well, that wasn't the condemnation of the piece you started off with. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #141

My complaint was using Palin, Coulter, etc. as examples. I thought was pretty weak, because they still_one Jul 2015 #142

No, this was your complaint: Scootaloo Jul 2015 #148

I got it, and reedited. Of course you are referring to the subthread we are discussing, and I was still_one Jul 2015 #150

it's easy. Scootaloo Jul 2015 #151

ok, thanks still_one Jul 2015 #153

Not in my opinion Elmer S. E. Dump Jul 2015 #199

It's way more than that lark Jul 2015 #206

Well I am not convinced from your lack of a convincing argument. Did you forget her speech telling rhett o rick Jul 2015 #149

Then don't vote for her if she is the nominee. still_one Jul 2015 #152

Again, nothing of substance. Supporting HRC is supporting the Oligarchy. But I'm guessing rhett o rick Jul 2015 #155

you guessed wrong. Have a good day still_one Jul 2015 #156

A vote for the status quo ignores the 22% of American children living in poverty. rhett o rick Jul 2015 #242

But, but, but HRC stands for a less sexist oligarchy. Divernan Jul 2015 #161

So you're going to throw away your vote if the primary doesn't go your way. DanTex Jul 2015 #4

They do, actually. Plus with the millions they will prevent from voting (this should start a war randys1 Jul 2015 #7

It isn't throwing away the vote artislife Jul 2015 #27

Of course it is. The next president will either be a Dem or a Rep. DanTex Jul 2015 #35

When push comes to shove, I think most Bernie supporters will vote for HRC if she's the nominee thesquanderer Jul 2015 #47

Not according to this OP. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #63

I agree. If the author of the OP is a Democrat, she won't be the typical Democrat still_one Jul 2015 #154

Your perspective is naive and undemocratic. RiverNoord Jul 2015 #182

We actually have a two-party system, you might not be aware of that. DanTex Jul 2015 #183

That's highly debatable. RiverNoord Jul 2015 #219

That we have a two-party system is not debatable. DanTex Jul 2015 #222

...^ that 840high Jul 2015 #75

Making a stand right before the elections..... Sheepshank Jul 2015 #112

Maybe we are shifting from within artislife Jul 2015 #120

Not voting is essentially throwing away your vote. cstanleytech Jul 2015 #145

Where is Hillary getting my vote from? London Lover Man Jul 2015 #50

Nowhere, it looks like. Vote for who you like best in the primary. DanTex Jul 2015 #58

Wow I feel better now. I will vote for the best candidate in the General election, A Simple Game Jul 2015 #90

She'll win big in the primary. The GE is a different story. DanTex Jul 2015 #95

Not me, nope, can't vote for anyone that authorizes a war for political gain. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #101

Oof. Score another point for the GOP. DanTex Jul 2015 #105

Nope, not me, haven't voted for a Republican in over 30 years. You may not know this but, A Simple Game Jul 2015 #110

Not voting for a Dem is equivalent to half a vote for the GOP. DanTex Jul 2015 #111

I have just two words for you, proof read. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #162

Well, I was presuming an understanding of fractions and some capacity for abstraction. DanTex Jul 2015 #167

Your math makes a wrong assumption. It assumes A Simple Game Jul 2015 #186

A vote for anyone but a Dem or a Rep (for prez) is a wasted vote. DanTex Jul 2015 #188

Quit with the "Everyone is going to lose their SS and Medicare" it won't work with me. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #212

True, there are more issues than that. And the GOP is wrong on every one of them. DanTex Jul 2015 #214

And you will never understand how the Country got to where it is today. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #215

When there are two alternatives, I go for the better one. DanTex Jul 2015 #216

Speaking of sticking your head in the sand. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #238

Democrats are better than Repugs 95% of the time. lark Jul 2015 #210

Yes Democrats are better than Republicans most of the time. Please read the posts you A Simple Game Jul 2015 #213

I love the author's brilliance in that logic. That will show them........ still_one Jul 2015 #80

Maybe Nader can be convinced to run again redstateblues Jul 2015 #123

I wrote about this the other day tymorial Jul 2015 #5

People should vote for whom they want but identity politics is a right wing trope. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #13

Now you know how I felt eight years ago -- I'm a black chick! rocktivity Jul 2015 #6

I like this rebuttal from the comment section: Metric System Jul 2015 #8

Two big lies in that quote. winter is coming Jul 2015 #17

"...if you opt to cast your vote in favor of the Republican party" rock Jul 2015 #18

Not voting is selfish and irresponsible. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #9

What an insulting and childish reply. 99Forever Jul 2015 #24

Not as childish as this temper tantrum strawman of an op. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #43

It's called an opinion. 99Forever Jul 2015 #64

My vote belongs to ME. And if someone wants it, they have to EARN it. Fuddnik Jul 2015 #65

I agree with everything you said. I'm too old to throw away my votes anymore. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #92

Well, that person said in her diary sadoldgirl Jul 2015 #25

Voting straight Dem ticket with a Pres.Walker won't = progress. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #33

Voting for evil is irresponsible. 840high Jul 2015 #76

Completely agree. Amimnoch Jul 2015 #176

I also will not vote for Bernie Sanders just because he's a Jewish person... cascadiance Jul 2015 #10

LOL. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #12

You might love your jobs getting outsourced, and CORPORATE ISDS courts overruling our government... cascadiance Jul 2015 #14

Wait, you disagree with Obama about one issue, so he's a sellout? DanTex Jul 2015 #16

I picked one out of many... cascadiance Jul 2015 #22

Don't forget his support of education privatization ibegurpard Jul 2015 #30

I'm sure there are many more to list here too... cascadiance Jul 2015 #56

So no credit for ACA, stopping a depression, saving the auto industry, executive actions on DanTex Jul 2015 #32

No, progress to progressives means 1 step forward, 15 back. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #37

And now even Democrats, with so many corporocrats is becoming a "bad identity"... cascadiance Jul 2015 #51

Representatives represent their districts. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #62

Then why did states like Oklahoma, Arkansas, Alaska, etc. vote to RAISE the minimum wage?... cascadiance Jul 2015 #93

Wait, so you mean the exact same trend that has occurred.... JaneyVee Jul 2015 #96

What trend are you talking about? Eisenhower's warning of the military industrial complex?... cascadiance Jul 2015 #98

And yet those states vote regularly for Republicans all along the ballot mythology Jul 2015 #166

Who pushed the $15 minimum wage and won? artislife Jul 2015 #177

I would contend that it is because they don't feel they can trust CORPORATE Democrats! cascadiance Jul 2015 #187

Because all those crappy white guy presidents sure sufrommich Jul 2015 #23

There are both good and bad white guy presidents... cascadiance Jul 2015 #29

So which WASP male president sufrommich Jul 2015 #39

I guess that would be George Washington... cascadiance Jul 2015 #48

quite unfair to Bibi: he's only slaughtered people in ONE time zone MisterP Jul 2015 #69

I have never forgotten she said that. Kalidurga Jul 2015 #11

People make assumptions. But you know what they say about "to assume". mmonk Jul 2015 #15

Stopped reading and dismissed their opinion when they wrote: OKNancy Jul 2015 #19

What sexist claptrap from the Daily Kos. I'm a woman and CharlotteVale Jul 2015 #20

Well said. Thank you. 99Forever Jul 2015 #21

Ok... quickesst Jul 2015 #28

This is a political discussion forum, specifically geared to primaries. 99Forever Jul 2015 #36

Whatforever... quickesst Jul 2015 #53

You drop the f-bomb and then act startled when it comes at you? 99Forever Jul 2015 #66

ok... quickesst Jul 2015 #77

Isn't the whole purpose of these forums artislife Jul 2015 #88

I thought so quickesst Jul 2015 #106

It's a mine field.....nt artislife Jul 2015 #108

Haha quickesst Jul 2015 #109

The back and forth before, during and after the primaries....... wolfie001 Jul 2015 #34

A voice of reason. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #38

Thanks! wolfie001 Jul 2015 #41

Uh, we put up a "triangulator" in 2000. (nt) jeff47 Jul 2015 #116

Had they counted the votes..... wolfie001 Jul 2015 #247

Had he not been a triangulator, it would not have been close enough to steal. jeff47 Jul 2015 #248

If Im played Identity poltics DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #40

Hillary has a 90% liberal voting record. JaneyVee Jul 2015 #44

as the late great jackpine Radical put it DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #71

He brought it up because it didn't fit his narrative LordGlenconner Jul 2015 #99

The fact that no one defined what "liberal" was DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #119

Elizabeth Warren is who the country needs as the first female President. jalan48 Jul 2015 #45

Inre the NY Senate seat... HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #49

Are you saying that she bought her senate seat?nt sufrommich Jul 2015 #55

No. It was bought for her. HooptieWagon Jul 2015 #59

There doesn't seem to be any limit to how low down sufrommich Jul 2015 #60

Sometimes when the truth is in the gutter you have no choice but to look down low. A Simple Game Jul 2015 #97

I also resent the assumption that I would automatically support Clinton because she is a woman. Chemisse Jul 2015 #54

Ok.. its because you are a woman. DCBob Jul 2015 #57

K&R! marym625 Jul 2015 #61

HRC stands for a less sexist oligarchy. Divernan Jul 2015 #67

I keep on trying to point out to SheilaT Jul 2015 #70

K&R MissDeeds Jul 2015 #72

K & R !!! WillyT Jul 2015 #73

I'm a chick and this chick WILL NOT be voting for this woman. NEVER! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #74

I have not seen a post on DU where a Hillary supporter has pledged NOT to vote for the Democratic still_one Jul 2015 #84

Some of us black chicks remember her race baiting in the last campaign. bravenak Jul 2015 #107

That wasn't my point though, was it? still_one Jul 2015 #122

That black chick said she was never voting for Clinton. bravenak Jul 2015 #124

My point is this. I have OBSERVED on DU that not ONE Clinton supporter said they would NOT support still_one Jul 2015 #125

I do not think she is a Sanders supporter. bravenak Jul 2015 #128

I suspect that the majority of Democrats, including those on DU, will vote for whoever the still_one Jul 2015 #134

Me too. That is the only one I wouldn't bother getting to the polls for. bravenak Jul 2015 #158

You maybe right: This maybe a GOP person lewebley3 Jul 2015 #195

No. She's not. bravenak Jul 2015 #240

Please don't go that way. Not only is it counterproductive, but it also means that DanTex Jul 2015 #179

I would be able to post just fine. Just not able to advocate against the nominee. bravenak Jul 2015 #239

Well I am a chick, and will be voting for Hillary: Go Hillary lewebley3 Jul 2015 #196

Good for you, but that doesn't mean that ALL chicks will be, which is the point of the OP. Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #224

Unfortunately you are right: Some will be voting to help the GOP lewebley3 Jul 2015 #225

By supporting Hillary Clinton--agreed! Liberal_Stalwart71 Jul 2015 #226

I think the person writing this, has too much free time, and must be listening to all the inane still_one Jul 2015 #78

Agreed: Sill one: Good Post lewebley3 Jul 2015 #194

Thank you thank you thank you!!!! IVoteDFL Jul 2015 #81

If Hillary is the Democratic nominee, please bring it up again on DU, and let us know how you really still_one Jul 2015 #85

I live in a state that hasn't voted for a republican for president like 20 years IVoteDFL Jul 2015 #89

be my guest. still_one Jul 2015 #91

I voted with my gentials once FlatBaroque Jul 2015 #235

I appreciate your feelings but... HassleCat Jul 2015 #82

Women who support Hillary, do it, NOT because she is a woman, but because of her positions. still_one Jul 2015 #83

Except No Hillary Supporter actually mentions those positions Rilgin Jul 2015 #163

They'll claim you are a traitor to your sex if you don't vote for Hillary.... Spitfire of ATJ Jul 2015 #86

O.K., I'm Voting for Hillary not becaue she is a women, BUT because lobodons Jul 2015 #87

I am voting for whoever the Democratic nominee is without hesitation. I also have no still_one Jul 2015 #127

I have been able to elect Women in to power artislife Jul 2015 #94

I'm voting for Hillary because she is the right woman for the job. boston bean Jul 2015 #100

Thank you for saying it. I was definitely thinking it. onecaliberal Jul 2015 #102

I agree. A woman prez would be cool but NOT as cool as progressive one! nt valerief Jul 2015 #103

what is really funny is DonCoquixote Jul 2015 #121

I have to say when Palin was first announced as McCain's artislife Jul 2015 #189

Likewise, stop telling me Hillary is not support by women and minorities. Thinkingabout Jul 2015 #104

people like to generalize, but the reality is no one speaks for anyone, but that individual still_one Jul 2015 #129

Wow Depaysement Jul 2015 #113

she will get a LOT of votes because of her gender Doctor_J Jul 2015 #114

Kos???? Kos drove almost EVERY WOMAN off his site back in 2008 after telling them sabrina 1 Jul 2015 #115

If she's the nominee, then I'll vote for her. No spoiling. But I feel the BERN!!! Kennah Jul 2015 #117

and that is as cool as it comes, and who knows, Bernie may end up the nominee. The primaries aren't still_one Jul 2015 #130

I've alway heard, "If you don't vote, your're not allowed to complain" Sunlei Jul 2015 #118

Of course they are allowed to complain, even if they don't vote. The question is how much still_one Jul 2015 #131

oh sure everyone is free to complain and threaten not to vote. Sunlei Jul 2015 #138

I understand your point, and it is valid, but there our other things to vote for on a ballot also. still_one Jul 2015 #139

Of course. I wouldn't mind if people moved to R primary and helped nudge Trump to win Sunlei Jul 2015 #143

That would be a gift if Trump was the republican nominee still_one Jul 2015 #146

Scalia and his SCOTUS pals could be in control of the bodies of all "chicks" oasis Jul 2015 #126

you're right, those dizzy broads aren't respecting the 19th Amendment! time to undo it MisterP Jul 2015 #159

When chicks "chew" and bite off their noses in order to blind themselves oasis Jul 2015 #218

General question. Is "chick" considered a derogatory term? still_one Jul 2015 #132

Not by this chick. beam me up scottie Jul 2015 #160

just wanted to see what the feeling was. Of course people can refer to themselves anyway they want still_one Jul 2015 #170

Agree 1000 percent! ReallyIAmAnOptimist Jul 2015 #135

She was still in Walmart lawyer mode, when she said that about baking cookies whereisjustice Jul 2015 #144

I Will No Longer Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Jul 2015 #157

Hillary is right on the issues, and She has been leader of the Dem's lewebley3 Jul 2015 #192

And HRC Is A Defender Of Wall Street - Hence The Evil cantbeserious Jul 2015 #203

Sanders supporter lies:Hillary's her own wonderful person lewebley3 Jul 2015 #208

Calling A Fellow DUer A Liar Is Against DU Rules - One Might Consider Retracting That Accusation cantbeserious Jul 2015 #211

Not an accusation: But I will change my verb: some Due'r are spreading proganda. lewebley3 Jul 2015 #220

Hillary is a defender of America: Hence not Evil lewebley3 Jul 2015 #221

I would hope that Wisconsin is still a swing state IronLionZion Jul 2015 #164

Geez, You Almost Made Me Feel Guilty . . . Gamecock Lefty Jul 2015 #165

Hear, hear. This is the only DU I don't mind seeing weaponized. nt raouldukelives Jul 2015 #169

I'm voting for Hillary. Laser102 Jul 2015 #171

People still say "chick"? ismnotwasm Jul 2015 #172

You're right Chick: is a Sanders supporters word lewebley3 Jul 2015 #209

IT SURE IS!!1! I was instructed to use it by Big Rec! beam me up scottie Jul 2015 #236

You're right Chick: is a Sanders supporters word AlbertCat Jul 2015 #241

I did not think Chickens could vote. Evergreen Emerald Jul 2015 #173

You are right Evergeen Emerald: GO Hilllary!!! lewebley3 Jul 2015 #191

Women leaders aren't always good. Look at Margaret Thatcher Rosa Luxemburg Jul 2015 #174

Well I'm not a "CHICK" and I'm voting for Hillary! nt William769 Jul 2015 #175

If you give a fuck who is she is voting for call me. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #178

"My response is this: I do not want Sarah Palin or Carly Fiorina or Michele Bachmann or Ann Coulter" NCTraveler Jul 2015 #180

Go Bernie ! GoneFishin Jul 2015 #184

The number of recs on this thread is telling.... BooScout Jul 2015 #185

Typical Sanders left wing ideologue: they are useless to Dem's party lewebley3 Jul 2015 #190

Sorry, if you don't vote Dem for president, you are voting Repug. lark Jul 2015 #205

Me: It's the Supreme Court. ananda Jul 2015 #217

SCOTUS decisions partnered with a GOP congress and WH. Axis of Evil. oasis Jul 2015 #223

Joni Ernst Syndrome. moondust Jul 2015 #227

It would show for once and all that women are equal in qualifications and gravitas. Really? Like jwirr Jul 2015 #228

Another vote for President Cruz at DU. onehandle Jul 2015 #229

Great post. Progressivism isn't identity politics. DirkGently Jul 2015 #230

Post removed Post removed Jul 2015 #232