2016 Postmortem

HFRN

(1,469 posts)

15. do you always jump this far to conclusions?

Reply to DemocratSinceBirth (Reply #5)

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 05:01 PM

Jul 2015

I'm sorry, but you are simply too unreasonable to have a discussion with

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Bernie will hurt himself with Hispanics if he keeps saying immigration brings down wages. It's a lie [View all] Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 OP

you didn't take Econ101, did you nt HFRN Jul 2015 #1

If you are correct... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #5

No the logical step is to reform our immigration laws ibegurpard Jul 2015 #10

It seems if you believe they depress wages sending them home would have a palliative effect on wages DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #13

Why don't you take that assumption ibegurpard Jul 2015 #19

Huh, what, I firmly indicated I DO NOT believe immigrants depress wages. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #34

And once again ibegurpard Jul 2015 #41

No, I don't support open borders... That would be insane... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #44

And Sanders has taken no positions ibegurpard Jul 2015 #47

If a whole bunch of folks can be exploited, have no legal status, and can be paid less than TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #65

What part of DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #75

I don't care what you favor when that is not the case in reality. What actually exists is a system TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #81

When they have legal status they will have legal recourse and that's why I am passionate DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #82

But they do not so your conditions are not operative. Right now they are being fucked TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #88

Wouldn't a path to citizenship ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #83

Is there currently a path to citizenship? Do you argue that undocumented laborers have TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #90

Why don't you read what was written? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #94

No, he did not see post #5 where he specifically stated undocumented workers TheKentuckian Aug 2015 #118

I saw #5 as sarcasm ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #120

The shadow market isn't proof of anything but greed, it has nothing to do with overall demand TheKentuckian Aug 2015 #124

I specifically said they should have legal status. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #76

I can't respond to what you say when it is not applicable to reality. TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #84

Of course I favor a minimum wage. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #87

I support a path to citizenship but there is none and until there is you have people making TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #89

This ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #85

This whole debate is getting confusing... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #98

What part of these people have no labor protections and are paid substandard and often illegal wages TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #72

do you always jump this far to conclusions? HFRN Jul 2015 #15

I did, and you haven't made your case. Adrahil Jul 2015 #18

labeling your opponent as 'right wing' is intellectually lazy nt HFRN Jul 2015 #20

It's true.nt bravenak Jul 2015 #30

I did not say THEY are right, I said this argument is right wing. Adrahil Jul 2015 #102

#3 is bullshit. If they don't have legal status they aren't paying into shit and neither is the TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #67

Ummm... I'm talking about LEGAL immigrants. Adrahil Jul 2015 #103

I'm talking about as conditions exist. Not pretending some other situation is in play. TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #113

This is bullshit. stone space Aug 2015 #128

This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Jul 2015 #111

as I remember, historically, the biggest waves immigration in the 19th century redruddyred Aug 2015 #131

Well. I did ... and got a degree in it ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #80

Sadly, some here spread the same stuff. Hoyt Jul 2015 #2

Sadly, xenophobia isn't restricted to the Republican party. nt Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #6

ah it's one of our resident free traders... ibegurpard Jul 2015 #8

Yep, I'm fine with folks from foreign countries. You think Hispanics are depressing your wages? Hoyt Jul 2015 #12

of course you are ibegurpard Jul 2015 #17

Nope, I'm fine with foreign countries and their people getting to share the Hoyt Jul 2015 #21

garbage ibegurpard Jul 2015 #24

Be honest, you only care about yourself. Hoyt Jul 2015 #39

I'm not the dishonest one here ibegurpard Jul 2015 #43

Tell that to my employer n/t arcane1 Jul 2015 #3

I agree. There's a reason Hillary us polling so high among Latinos. lunamagica Jul 2015 #4

It's name recognition. askew Jul 2015 #27

Said? How about Bernie's VOTE in support of the racist vigilante group, The Mimutemen? lunamagica Jul 2015 #35

give me the bill number and not your interpretation of it ibegurpard Jul 2015 #37

Here you go: lunamagica Jul 2015 #42

HR 5441 ibegurpard Jul 2015 #46

The old "your candidate is guilty of voting for an omnibus bill" DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #63

yup ibegurpard Jul 2015 #70

Give me break. You know I'm talking about this particular amedment lunamagica Jul 2015 #97

Good point. I don't see how anyone could vote YES for any amendment supporting a racist group Hoyt Jul 2015 #99

Right. It's amazing the way they want to spin things in order to defent the indefensible. lunamagica Aug 2015 #114

+1. Hoyt Aug 2015 #117

You know, there was also an increase in anti-latino racism because of that whole thing. freshwest Aug 2015 #133

Like I said, O'Malley is the best candidate on Latino/Immigration issues by far. askew Aug 2015 #115

I do like O'Malley, and I think he is great on immigration lunamagica Aug 2015 #116

If Hillary has such a deep history with Latinos, why did she make anti-immigrant askew Aug 2015 #125

I alresdy explained my reasons to you. If you won't listen, I have nothing more to say. eom lunamagica Aug 2015 #127

since when does immigration equate to undocumented? ibegurpard Jul 2015 #7

You realize what you said in your subject is the same thing Trump and many other Republicans stevenleser Jul 2015 #11

im not letting free trade zealots try to play on xenophobia accusations ibegurpard Jul 2015 #14

wtf? So what. Trump and Republicans say "hello how are you" also. OMG. nt Snotcicles Jul 2015 #16

As a resident of Los Angeles this argument strikes me as specious... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #9

I am really uncomfortable with his views on immigration. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #22

O'Malley is by far the best candidate on immigration. askew Jul 2015 #23

Thanks. Updated my OP to include this information Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #25

He's talking about HB1 visas ibegurpard Jul 2015 #26

Actually I don't because in the interviews I have watched and read Raine1967 Jul 2015 #29

That's the only thing he COULD be talking about ibegurpard Jul 2015 #49

Surely you are not putting trying to misconstrue the very words I wrote, right? Raine1967 Jul 2015 #54

It's the only thing he could have meant ibegurpard Jul 2015 #56

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE BEING PAID LEGAL WAGES? TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #78

I think you responded to the wrong post ibegurpard Jul 2015 #91

No, you made zero differentiation of legal status in the post I responded to. TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #93

The H2b visa is for semi skilled "seasonal" or temporary TexasBushwhacker Aug 2015 #129

Thank you for this. Raine1967 Aug 2015 #130

And those DO bring down wages. arcane1 Jul 2015 #31

people holding those jobs are not recipients of H-1B visas. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #33

Why are you uncomfortable with a minimum wage? TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #74

No that is not 'in effect' what I am saying. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #77

If you are comfortable with people being paid less than minimum wage then you must be uncomfortable TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #86

Once again, what you are suggesting is simply not what I said. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #92

If you are in favor of millions of people that it doesn't apply to in the market then what else TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #110

Wages are already depressed by the wealthy. WDIM Jul 2015 #28

free traders are attempting to spread this ibegurpard Jul 2015 #36

H1B visas DO bring down wages. Period. peacebird Jul 2015 #32

Sanders is talking about unskilled workers, not H-1B visa recipients. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #38

No he's not ibegurpard Jul 2015 #62

He has spoken against BOTH H-1B (skilled) AND H-2 (unskilled) programs... cascadiance Jul 2015 #79

I appreciate this. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #95

Thanks for the nice note! cascadiance Jul 2015 #107

This is a great post. Please consider making it an OP. I've little doubt it will make it will get Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #106

I did make a post earlier for Bernie that has a lot of this info in it... cascadiance Jul 2015 #108

Undocumented. tazkcmo Jul 2015 #40

yup ibegurpard Jul 2015 #50

Odd. The same Economic Policy Institute also claims that the influx of tech workers depress IT wages Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #45

interesting take on a rather questionable article maybe you didn't read it to the end azurnoir Jul 2015 #48

UNDOCUMENTED. You conveniently left that word out of your argument. Avalux Jul 2015 #51

So I guess there should be unlimited H-1B visas then, yes? n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #52

When did he mention H-1B visa's regarding this issue? Raine1967 Jul 2015 #55

So we should welcome more immigrants to the US, provided they don't have any skills. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #57

you are not answering my question regarding unskilled labor and that is what Sanders Raine1967 Jul 2015 #58

Yes technically H-1B visas are not immigrant visas because the workers are only temporary. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #64

The thing is, this OP wasn't meant to be about h-1B visas. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #68

He's obviously not against immigration is he? ibegurpard Jul 2015 #73

I just told you ibegurpard Jul 2015 #60

You told me nothing. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #61

nope ibegurpard Jul 2015 #66

You brought up those visas, not me. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #71

It IS true. PeteSelman Jul 2015 #53

If you have a whole class of people with no labor protections making less than prevailing wages how TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #59

I don't think OP is against legalization. I'm for it now, but until that happens, the hatred toward Hoyt Jul 2015 #101

This "hispanpic" thinks he means USh1B that tech uses artislife Jul 2015 #69

I'm sure your admonitions will be taken under advisement and given the consideration it deserves. AtomicKitten Jul 2015 #96

que thanl por su preocupaci�n WillyT Jul 2015 #100

It was a beautiful day here today MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #104

It does when Businesses hire Undocumented Workers who are in fear of deportation. KoKo Jul 2015 #105

Bookmarked and recced for the good info in the replies. nt SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #109

I agree. Lunamagica, Raine and a few others took the info in the OP and added some other really Number23 Jul 2015 #112

You are going to hurt yourself, straining like that... Agony Aug 2015 #119

Who is lying? Vattel Aug 2015 #121

so he may have mixed up his visas. perhaps he meant student visas, for example in yellowstone Sunlei Aug 2015 #122

Another day, another hit and run accusation of Bernie Sanders being a racist davidpdx Aug 2015 #123

Yeah, right HassleCat Aug 2015 #126

Corporate front groups are largely behind this. mmonk Aug 2015 #132