2016 Postmortem

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)

67. #3 is bullshit. If they don't have legal status they aren't paying into shit and neither is the

Fri Jul 31, 2015, 07:05 PM

Jul 2015

sleazy employer.

Nothing wrong with immigration but there is a lot wrong with ripping off people and taking advantage of their lack of status and fear of deportation so you can get over and bust the shit out of the social compact in the process to pad your pockets?

Why are you so bound and determined to exploit Latinos as near slave underclass? Why do you think it is okay to pay hardworking people less than minimum wage? By what possible logic and mathematics do you argue that paying a whole class of people less than anybody with any legal status, much less citizens doesn't undercut wages?

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Bernie will hurt himself with Hispanics if he keeps saying immigration brings down wages. It's a lie [View all] Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 OP

you didn't take Econ101, did you nt HFRN Jul 2015 #1

If you are correct... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #5

No the logical step is to reform our immigration laws ibegurpard Jul 2015 #10

It seems if you believe they depress wages sending them home would have a palliative effect on wages DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #13

Why don't you take that assumption ibegurpard Jul 2015 #19

Huh, what, I firmly indicated I DO NOT believe immigrants depress wages. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #34

And once again ibegurpard Jul 2015 #41

No, I don't support open borders... That would be insane... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #44

And Sanders has taken no positions ibegurpard Jul 2015 #47

If a whole bunch of folks can be exploited, have no legal status, and can be paid less than TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #65

What part of DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #75

I don't care what you favor when that is not the case in reality. What actually exists is a system TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #81

When they have legal status they will have legal recourse and that's why I am passionate DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #82

But they do not so your conditions are not operative. Right now they are being fucked TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #88

Wouldn't a path to citizenship ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #83

Is there currently a path to citizenship? Do you argue that undocumented laborers have TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #90

Why don't you read what was written? ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #94

No, he did not see post #5 where he specifically stated undocumented workers TheKentuckian Aug 2015 #118

I saw #5 as sarcasm ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #120

The shadow market isn't proof of anything but greed, it has nothing to do with overall demand TheKentuckian Aug 2015 #124

I specifically said they should have legal status. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #76

I can't respond to what you say when it is not applicable to reality. TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #84

Of course I favor a minimum wage. DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #87

I support a path to citizenship but there is none and until there is you have people making TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #89

This ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #85

This whole debate is getting confusing... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #98

What part of these people have no labor protections and are paid substandard and often illegal wages TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #72

do you always jump this far to conclusions? HFRN Jul 2015 #15

I did, and you haven't made your case. Adrahil Jul 2015 #18

labeling your opponent as 'right wing' is intellectually lazy nt HFRN Jul 2015 #20

It's true.nt bravenak Jul 2015 #30

I did not say THEY are right, I said this argument is right wing. Adrahil Jul 2015 #102

#3 is bullshit. If they don't have legal status they aren't paying into shit and neither is the TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #67

Ummm... I'm talking about LEGAL immigrants. Adrahil Jul 2015 #103

I'm talking about as conditions exist. Not pretending some other situation is in play. TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #113

This is bullshit. stone space Aug 2015 #128

This message was self-deleted by its author 840high Jul 2015 #111

as I remember, historically, the biggest waves immigration in the 19th century redruddyred Aug 2015 #131

Well. I did ... and got a degree in it ... 1StrongBlackMan Jul 2015 #80

Sadly, some here spread the same stuff. Hoyt Jul 2015 #2

Sadly, xenophobia isn't restricted to the Republican party. nt Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #6

ah it's one of our resident free traders... ibegurpard Jul 2015 #8

Yep, I'm fine with folks from foreign countries. You think Hispanics are depressing your wages? Hoyt Jul 2015 #12

of course you are ibegurpard Jul 2015 #17

Nope, I'm fine with foreign countries and their people getting to share the Hoyt Jul 2015 #21

garbage ibegurpard Jul 2015 #24

Be honest, you only care about yourself. Hoyt Jul 2015 #39

I'm not the dishonest one here ibegurpard Jul 2015 #43

Tell that to my employer n/t arcane1 Jul 2015 #3

I agree. There's a reason Hillary us polling so high among Latinos. lunamagica Jul 2015 #4

It's name recognition. askew Jul 2015 #27

Said? How about Bernie's VOTE in support of the racist vigilante group, The Mimutemen? lunamagica Jul 2015 #35

give me the bill number and not your interpretation of it ibegurpard Jul 2015 #37

Here you go: lunamagica Jul 2015 #42

HR 5441 ibegurpard Jul 2015 #46

The old "your candidate is guilty of voting for an omnibus bill" DisgustipatedinCA Jul 2015 #63

yup ibegurpard Jul 2015 #70

Give me break. You know I'm talking about this particular amedment lunamagica Jul 2015 #97

Good point. I don't see how anyone could vote YES for any amendment supporting a racist group Hoyt Jul 2015 #99

Right. It's amazing the way they want to spin things in order to defent the indefensible. lunamagica Aug 2015 #114

+1. Hoyt Aug 2015 #117

You know, there was also an increase in anti-latino racism because of that whole thing. freshwest Aug 2015 #133

Like I said, O'Malley is the best candidate on Latino/Immigration issues by far. askew Aug 2015 #115

I do like O'Malley, and I think he is great on immigration lunamagica Aug 2015 #116

If Hillary has such a deep history with Latinos, why did she make anti-immigrant askew Aug 2015 #125

I alresdy explained my reasons to you. If you won't listen, I have nothing more to say. eom lunamagica Aug 2015 #127

since when does immigration equate to undocumented? ibegurpard Jul 2015 #7

You realize what you said in your subject is the same thing Trump and many other Republicans stevenleser Jul 2015 #11

im not letting free trade zealots try to play on xenophobia accusations ibegurpard Jul 2015 #14

wtf? So what. Trump and Republicans say "hello how are you" also. OMG. nt Snotcicles Jul 2015 #16

As a resident of Los Angeles this argument strikes me as specious... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2015 #9

I am really uncomfortable with his views on immigration. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #22

O'Malley is by far the best candidate on immigration. askew Jul 2015 #23

Thanks. Updated my OP to include this information Cali_Democrat Jul 2015 #25

He's talking about HB1 visas ibegurpard Jul 2015 #26

Actually I don't because in the interviews I have watched and read Raine1967 Jul 2015 #29

That's the only thing he COULD be talking about ibegurpard Jul 2015 #49

Surely you are not putting trying to misconstrue the very words I wrote, right? Raine1967 Jul 2015 #54

It's the only thing he could have meant ibegurpard Jul 2015 #56

WHY DO YOU THINK THEY ARE BEING PAID LEGAL WAGES? TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #78

I think you responded to the wrong post ibegurpard Jul 2015 #91

No, you made zero differentiation of legal status in the post I responded to. TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #93

The H2b visa is for semi skilled "seasonal" or temporary TexasBushwhacker Aug 2015 #129

Thank you for this. Raine1967 Aug 2015 #130

And those DO bring down wages. arcane1 Jul 2015 #31

people holding those jobs are not recipients of H-1B visas. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #33

Why are you uncomfortable with a minimum wage? TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #74

No that is not 'in effect' what I am saying. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #77

If you are comfortable with people being paid less than minimum wage then you must be uncomfortable TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #86

Once again, what you are suggesting is simply not what I said. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #92

If you are in favor of millions of people that it doesn't apply to in the market then what else TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #110

Wages are already depressed by the wealthy. WDIM Jul 2015 #28

free traders are attempting to spread this ibegurpard Jul 2015 #36

H1B visas DO bring down wages. Period. peacebird Jul 2015 #32

Sanders is talking about unskilled workers, not H-1B visa recipients. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #38

No he's not ibegurpard Jul 2015 #62

He has spoken against BOTH H-1B (skilled) AND H-2 (unskilled) programs... cascadiance Jul 2015 #79

I appreciate this. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #95

Thanks for the nice note! cascadiance Jul 2015 #107

This is a great post. Please consider making it an OP. I've little doubt it will make it will get Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #106

I did make a post earlier for Bernie that has a lot of this info in it... cascadiance Jul 2015 #108

Undocumented. tazkcmo Jul 2015 #40

yup ibegurpard Jul 2015 #50

Odd. The same Economic Policy Institute also claims that the influx of tech workers depress IT wages Luminous Animal Jul 2015 #45

interesting take on a rather questionable article maybe you didn't read it to the end azurnoir Jul 2015 #48

UNDOCUMENTED. You conveniently left that word out of your argument. Avalux Jul 2015 #51

So I guess there should be unlimited H-1B visas then, yes? n/t PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #52

When did he mention H-1B visa's regarding this issue? Raine1967 Jul 2015 #55

So we should welcome more immigrants to the US, provided they don't have any skills. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #57

you are not answering my question regarding unskilled labor and that is what Sanders Raine1967 Jul 2015 #58

Yes technically H-1B visas are not immigrant visas because the workers are only temporary. PoliticAverse Jul 2015 #64

The thing is, this OP wasn't meant to be about h-1B visas. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #68

He's obviously not against immigration is he? ibegurpard Jul 2015 #73

I just told you ibegurpard Jul 2015 #60

You told me nothing. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #61

nope ibegurpard Jul 2015 #66

You brought up those visas, not me. Raine1967 Jul 2015 #71

It IS true. PeteSelman Jul 2015 #53

If you have a whole class of people with no labor protections making less than prevailing wages how TheKentuckian Jul 2015 #59

I don't think OP is against legalization. I'm for it now, but until that happens, the hatred toward Hoyt Jul 2015 #101

This "hispanpic" thinks he means USh1B that tech uses artislife Jul 2015 #69

I'm sure your admonitions will be taken under advisement and given the consideration it deserves. AtomicKitten Jul 2015 #96

que thanl por su preocupaci�n WillyT Jul 2015 #100

It was a beautiful day here today MannyGoldstein Jul 2015 #104

It does when Businesses hire Undocumented Workers who are in fear of deportation. KoKo Jul 2015 #105

Bookmarked and recced for the good info in the replies. nt SusanCalvin Jul 2015 #109

I agree. Lunamagica, Raine and a few others took the info in the OP and added some other really Number23 Jul 2015 #112

You are going to hurt yourself, straining like that... Agony Aug 2015 #119

Who is lying? Vattel Aug 2015 #121

so he may have mixed up his visas. perhaps he meant student visas, for example in yellowstone Sunlei Aug 2015 #122

Another day, another hit and run accusation of Bernie Sanders being a racist davidpdx Aug 2015 #123

Yeah, right HassleCat Aug 2015 #126

Corporate front groups are largely behind this. mmonk Aug 2015 #132