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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Uppity Liberals [View all]beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)15. Let's have a look at your candidate's record on same sex marriage, shall we?
I mean since your article brought it up it's only fair to compare the two candidates, right?
Hillary opposed same sex marriage throughout her career including when she ran for the Democratic nomination in 2008. Had she been elected she would have been a president who opposed equal rights for lgbt people.
1996: My preference is that we do all we can to strengthen traditional marriages, and that the people engaged in parenting children be committed to one another and to the child. We also have to be realistic and know there are others who can do a good job, as well, of raising children, Mrs. Clinton told The San Francisco Examiner.
2000: Marriage has got historic, religious and moral content that goes back to the beginning of time, and I think a marriage is as a marriage has always been, between a man and a woman, Mrs. Clinton said while running for the Senate in New York.
2003: Well, marriage means something different. You know, marriage has a meaning that I think should be kept as it historically has been, but I see no reason whatsoever why people in committed relationships cant have many of the same rights and the same respect for their unions that they are seeking, and I would like to see that be more accepted than it is, Mrs. Clinton speaking to WNYC on the difference between gay marriage and civil unions.
2003: I am, you know, for many reasons. I think that the vast majority of Americans find that to be something they cant agree with. But I think most Americans are fair. And if they believe that people in committed relationships want to share their lives and, not only that, have the same rights that I do in my marriage, to decide who I want to inherit my property or visit me in a hospital, I think that most Americans would think that thats fair and that should be done, Mrs. Clinton, in an interview with CBS, on whether she still opposed same-sex marriage.
2006: My position is consistent. I support states making the decision. I think that Chuck Schumer would say the same thing. And if anyone ever tried to use our words in any way, well review that. Because I think that it should be in the political process and people make a decision and if our governor and our Legislature support marriage in New York, Im not going to be against that, Mrs. Clinton telling Gay City News that she would not block legislation supporting gay marriage in New York.
2007: I am very much in favor of civil unions with full equality of benefits, Mrs. Clinton told Ellen DeGeneres, explaining that she still believed the decision should be left to states.
She finally came around in 2013.
2013: L.G.B.T. Americans are our colleagues, our teachers, our soldiers, our friends, our loved ones, and they are full and equal citizens and deserve the rights of citizenship. That includes marriage, Mrs. Clinton said in a video released by Human Rights Campaign, a gay rights advocacy group.
http://www.nytimes.com/politics/first-draft/2015/04/16/hillary-clintons-changing-views-on-gay-marriage/
Now let's take a peek into Bernie's background to see how he felt about equal rights for lgbt people:
32 Years Before Marriage Equality, Bernie Sanders Fought For Gay Rights

But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you dont have to go far back to find a time when they werent. And hey, were happy to have their evolved support.
Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton an unpopular position then a look back at Sanders political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.
In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights especially the freedom of speech and expression, Sanders wrote later in a memo. In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.
...
It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped but to the gay community as well.
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719

But these are only very recent developments. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton may be champions of same-sex marriage now, but you dont have to go far back to find a time when they werent. And hey, were happy to have their evolved support.
Not only did Sanders vote against the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996 which defined marriage as between one man and one woman, signed into law by then-president Bill Clinton an unpopular position then a look back at Sanders political career shows consistent support of the gay rights movement. Even when it was more than just unpopular, it was downright controversial.
In our democratic society, it is the responsibility of government to safeguard civil liberties and civil rights especially the freedom of speech and expression, Sanders wrote later in a memo. In a free society, we must all be committed to the mutual respect of each others lifestyle.
...
It is my very strong view that a society which proclaims human freedom as its goal, as the United States does, must work unceasingly to end discrimination against all people. I am happy to say that this past year, in Burlington, we have made some important progress by adopting an ordinance which prohibits discrimination in housing. This law will give legal protection not only to welfare recipients, and families with children, the elderly and the handicapped but to the gay community as well.
http://www.queerty.com/32-years-before-marriage-equality-bernie-sanders-fought-for-gay-rights-20150719
I think it's obvious who is more liberal.
You're welcome.
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Because you have to vote with them 100 percent of the time to get that. You know that, Manny.
MADem
Aug 2015
#63
I think you're referencing someone else--I don't compulsively alert--do you want me to?
MADem
Aug 2015
#258
Sorry--it wasn't me that sent you on your way, much as you seem to want to target/blame me.
MADem
Aug 2015
#262
No, I did not--I did observe that a post either got hidden or deleted (can't tell, since you don't
MADem
Aug 2015
#275
He got a C in 2006. He dances with them some years, and other years, not so much. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#101
Obama called Hillary "Annie Oakley" after that speech pandering to gun owners.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#113
Secretary of a State department stripped of its single most important responsibility.
ieoeja
Aug 2015
#256
You aren't the Oracle at Delphi, you are obviously getting your statements from somewhere.
MADem
Aug 2015
#270
I don't know about the poster in question but don't assume present Hillary supporters
A Simple Game
Aug 2015
#185
Some people don't understand the concept of SECOND CHOICE here at DU. That's the problem.
MADem
Aug 2015
#215
He represents the constituents of Vermont where there are few gun control laws. If it were
bjobotts
Aug 2015
#245
What a lovely post!! "Stop with the NRA crap cause we really don't give a shit" -- you are
MADem
Aug 2015
#260
Liberals don't know they're liberals eh. Oh give it up with the Bernie /NRA crap.We don't give a sh
bjobotts
Aug 2015
#243
Why don't you promote YOUR candidate? This is primary season and we don't much about
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#114
Lol, knitting? Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I should stick to knitting!
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#121
Wow -- sexism IS alive and well! I still have a scarf knitted by my very late grandfather, AND
MADem
Aug 2015
#124
Absolutely. It is a common expression. I don't know most people's genders here, anyway.
MADem
Aug 2015
#131
Sanders also votes/voted against Neocon Wars (speaking of guns, how about WMDS killing
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#253
"That poster" just doesn't agree with you. I happen to prefer my POV to yours. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#219
No, he's not: Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#27
Your link is old/inaccurate. His present rating, as the Jul 9 link I provided shows, is D MINUS. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#36
That's not accurate. It means he didn't vote with the NRA on every single issue. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#62
Anything less than slavish adherence will get a politician a bad grade. He got a C in 2006. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#89
He's a good vote counter, I'll give him that. He threaded the needle well on that transaction.
MADem
Aug 2015
#142
Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban = #Not Good Enough Bernie!!1!
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#144
It's easy to vote for things that don't pass, and you know they aren't going to pass, especially if
MADem
Aug 2015
#145
Right because Bernie's a liar and couldn't possibly have voted his conscience.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#147
I am not making those characterizations--but you are going out of your way to say nasty things about
MADem
Aug 2015
#149
Wow--that was an ugly post. Proud of yourself that you lost it so much you had to say that?
MADem
Aug 2015
#157
I'll let Barney Frank explain it to you. There is no "mantra." There's just simple reality.
MADem
Aug 2015
#221
I think we should let them keep pushing this. They THINK it's a winning issue
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#191
I don't. I look at the big picture--her record is stronger and better than his. Here, read this.
MADem
Aug 2015
#222
So it's either an A or an F? What about the C and D ratings you cited earlier?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#171
But he is.He's right with the NRA on most issues--he gets a D MINUS ONLY because he's not 100 %.
MADem
Aug 2015
#55
Here's what Bernie Sanders had to say after the Charleston massacre:
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#66
Obama is not on the ballot. And how many shootings have we had since Sandy Hook?
MADem
Aug 2015
#103
"It wasn't those cough-urban-cough types who have been shooting up movie theaters"
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#112
It doesn't matter what spin you put on it, Bernie is pro-gun control.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#120
Bernie's position on this issue is mainstream. I'm not worried about it all. Rural and urban areas
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#119
Let's have a look at your candidate's record on same sex marriage, shall we?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#15
No, let's not. This thread isn't about "my candidate." Why don't you start one instead of
MADem
Aug 2015
#30
pointing out that a Bernie bashing article was written by a Hillary supporter adds perspective
azurnoir
Aug 2015
#51
It sounds like you believe that "liberal" means anti-capitalistic
ConservativeDemocrat
Aug 2015
#251
Again, you clearly think business is anti-democracy and "makes things worse"
ConservativeDemocrat
Aug 2015
#286
That is the way I took it also. My first historical memory was setting on my mothers lap crying as
jwirr
Aug 2015
#17
His strong appeal with Libertarians will probably be the end of him. That's what's alienating
MADem
Aug 2015
#44
I am liberal as is Third Way who supports minimum wage increases for one thing.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#5
The geopolitical chess moves, the destruction and creation of regimes, the mass slaughter,
Vattel
Aug 2015
#285
It's from ontheissues.org, if you want something more recent talk to them.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#69
Thank you for fixing that broken link. The reason your information is old is because it's from his
MADem
Aug 2015
#73
Remarks by Senator Sanders at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#76
Obama and Bernie have both noted the difference in urban and rural gun use.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#85
Obama's not on the ballot in 2016. And people keep getting killed in movie theaters, churches,
MADem
Aug 2015
#91
"So" have they changed election law, and Obama's on the 2016 ballot? This thread isn't about Obama.
MADem
Aug 2015
#98
Bernie is pro-gun control, no amount of spin from HC supporters will change that fact.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#105
Kinda like HRC's equivocation on just about everything else then, yes?
PoutrageFatigue
Aug 2015
#230
I can see why you might be confused. Some think that if they say the support same sex marriage
rhett o rick
Aug 2015
#16
Is someone who opposes same sex marriage more "liberal" than someone who supports it?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#35
I'd say the one who opposed same sex marriage until 2013 is less liberal.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#52
Yes, it's not like "separate but equal" has any sort of negative history in our country. (nt)
jeff47
Aug 2015
#64
How about "no benefits" vs. "benefits--we can't wait for the law to catch up with what's right."
MADem
Aug 2015
#82
Opposing it by funding benefits for partners of LGBT diplomats and foreign service personnel.
MADem
Aug 2015
#88
Bernie always supported lgbt rights: benefits, marriage, anti-discrimination laws, etc.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#90
And where did he put his money where his mouth is? Did he ever pay benefits to same sex partners on
MADem
Aug 2015
#94
Some light reading for inquiring minds who actually care about lgbt rights:
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#104
TLDR--more is not better. HRC provided her federal employees with SSM benefits ahead of
MADem
Aug 2015
#154
That's okay. I wasn't referring to you, I meant people who care about the issue.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#158
If we stick together, there is nothing, nothing, nothing that we cannot do n/t
udbcrzy2
Aug 2015
#102
There's GOT to be a special award for getting locked out of your own OP.
Spitfire of ATJ
Aug 2015
#150
but but but socialism! He's unelectable poison! He's ruining the Dem chances!
Fast Walker 52
Aug 2015
#177
"We will call it like it is. We will fight like hell for Bernie, and against lies."
Zorra
Aug 2015
#200
Pretty impressive job of trying to trash Bernie Sanders by one poster on this thread.
Comrade Grumpy
Aug 2015
#201
Ugh, yeah. Reminds me of an ill informed friend who brought up Vince Foster last night....
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#235
Love you co-opting offense over be called "uppity". Especially since it had nothing to do w/your OP
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#244
I like liberals when they created Social Security but when then did mass incarceration it was a bad
Cheese Sandwich
Aug 2015
#263