Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Uppity Liberals [View all]beam me up scottie
(57,349 posts)104. Some light reading for inquiring minds who actually care about lgbt rights:
On LGBT Rights, Bernie Leads and Hillary Follows
Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.
On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.
But she isn't the only option.
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.
Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html
Of course, Clinton has since evolved on LGBT rights, as many have. That's wonderful. But the problem is, she only came out in support of marriage equality after it was not politically risky to do so. In fact, by 2013 - the year Clinton announced her full support for marriage equality - Democratic support for same-sex marriage was the norm, not the exception.
On such an important moral issue that affects my life and the lives of thousands of other Americans, making decisions in this manner is rather despicable. Additionally, Clinton's habit of doing what polls deem politically popular is the reason why so many voters find her inauthentic. Now, if Clinton were the only option for the Democratic presidential nomination, I would understand why we should support her despite these flaws.
But she isn't the only option.
Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, the longest-serving Independent in the history of Congress, is also running for the nomination. And unlike Clinton, his record on LGBT rights is historically excellent.
Sanders voted against DOMA, one of the few members of Congress to do so, at a time when such a stance was not politically popular. Four years after DOMA passed, Sanders helped champion Vermont's decision in 2000 to become the first state to legalize same-sex civil unions. This set a national precedent for LGBT equality achieved via legislative means. In 2009, when Vermont became the first state to allow marriage equality through legislative action rather than a court ruling, Sanders expressed his support once again. Truly, Sanders has been a real leader on LGBT rights, even if this leadership isn't recognized in the way that Clinton's current support is.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/scott-novak/on-lgbt-rights-bernie-lea_b_7662682.html
Bernie Sanders Was for Full Gay Equality 40 Years Ago
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Todays Supreme Court decision was a monumental moment in American history, as it guaranteed the right for gays and lesbians to get married and established full marriage equality.
Many politicians offered their words of support, including President Obama and Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.
Yet it is important to remember that Obama and Clinton both opposed marriage equality as late as early 2012. It is a testament to the work of thousands of activists over decades that the political class was pulled towards supporting equality.
There is however one prominent politician who did not wait so long to call for full gay equality: Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT)
In a letter he published in the early 1970s, when he was a candidate for governor of Vermont from the Liberty Union Party, Sanders invoked freedom to call for the abolition of all laws related to homosexuality:
http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/bernie-sanders-was-full-gay-equality-40-years-ago
Sanders: I was ahead of the curve on gay rights
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.
Sanders remarks come a day after Fridays landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.
He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
...
Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation, he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.
Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Fridays Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.
No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court, Sanders said.
It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states, he said. The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights
Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) said Saturday he has been waiting for the nation to catch up to his support for same-sex marriage.
Sanders remarks come a day after Fridays landmark 5-4 Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage nationwide.
He argued he was well ahead of the historic decision, unlike Hillary Clinton, his main rival for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.
...
Sanders at the time served in the House of Representatives, which voted 342-67 in favor of DOMA. The Senate voted 85-14 in favor, before former President Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That was an anti-gay marriage piece of legislation, he added of the law that defined marriage at the federal level as the coupling of one man and one woman.
Sanders on Saturday praised Americans for creating greater opportunities for same-sex couples. Fridays Supreme Court ruling, he charged, was not possible without national pressure for gay rights.
No one here should think for one second this starts with the Supreme Court, Sanders said.
It starts at the grassroots level in all 50 states, he said. The American people want to end discrimination in all its forms.
http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/246370-sanders-i-was-ahead-of-the-curve-on-gay-rights
Bernie Sanders was decades ahead of the country on gay rights and ending the war on drugs
Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.
In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:
These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.
...
But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.
Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights
Most Americans now support legally allowing gay and lesbian relationships, same-sex marriage, and personal marijuana use after decades of shifting public opinion. But one Democratic candidate for president, Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, was calling for many of these changes decades ago.
In a 1972 letter to a local newspaper which was recently resurfaced by Chelsea Summers at the New Republic Sanders wrote that he supported abolishing "all laws dealing with abortion, drugs, sexual behavior (adultery, homosexuality, etc.)" as part of his campaign for Vermont governor:
These stances were far removed from public opinion at the time, according to Gallup surveys on marijuana and gay and lesbian rights. In 1972, 81 percent of Americans said marijuana should be illegal which suggests even more would favor the prohibition of more dangerous drugs like cocaine and heroin. In 1977, the earliest year of polling data, 43 percent of Americans said gay and lesbian relations between consenting adults should not be legal, while 43 percent said they should be legal.
...
But it took decades for the American public to come around to majority support on these issues: It wasn't until 2013 that a majority of Americans supported marijuana legalization, the early 2000s that most consistently responded in favor of legal gay and lesbian relations, and 2011 that a majority first reported backing same-sex marriage rights.
Sanders has carried many of these positions to this day. He was one of the few federal lawmakers to vote against the Defense of Marriage Act, the federal ban on same-sex marriages, in the 1990s. And while he told Time's Jay Newton-Small in March that he has no current stance on marijuana legalization (but backs medical marijuana), he characterized the war on drugs as costly and destructive.
http://www.vox.com/2015/7/7/8905905/sanders-drugs-gay-rights
Bernie Sanders on Civil Rights
Equal pay for equal work by women. (Mar 2015)
Bushs tracking citizens phone call patterns is illegal. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
Rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 97% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
ENDA: prohibit employment discrimination for gays. (Jun 2009)
Prohibit sexual-identity discrimination at schools. (Mar 2011)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
Enforce against wage discrimination based on gender. (Jan 2013)
Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm
Equal pay for equal work by women. (Mar 2015)
Bushs tracking citizens phone call patterns is illegal. (Jun 2006)
Voted YES on reauthorizing the Violence Against Women Act. (Feb 2013)
Voted NO on Constitutionally defining marriage as one-man-one-woman. (Jul 2006)
Voted NO on making the PATRIOT Act permanent. (Dec 2005)
Voted NO on Constitutional Amendment banning same-sex marriage. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on protecting the Pledge of Allegiance. (Sep 2004)
Voted NO on constitutional amendment prohibiting flag desecration. (Jun 2003)
Voted NO on banning gay adoptions in DC. (Jul 1999)
Voted NO on ending preferential treatment by race in college admissions. (May 1998)
Constitutional Amendment for equal rights by gender. (Mar 2001)
Rated 93% by the ACLU, indicating a pro-civil rights voting record. (Dec 2002)
Rated 100% by the HRC, indicating a pro-gay-rights stance. (Dec 2006)
Rated 97% by the NAACP, indicating a pro-affirmative-action stance. (Dec 2006)
Recognize Juneteenth as historical end of slavery. (Jun 2008)
ENDA: prohibit employment discrimination for gays. (Jun 2009)
Prohibit sexual-identity discrimination at schools. (Mar 2011)
Endorsed as "preferred" by The Feminist Majority indicating pro-women's rights. (Aug 2012)
Enforce against wage discrimination based on gender. (Jan 2013)
Enforce against anti-gay discrimination in public schools. (Jun 2013)
Re-introduce the Equal Rights Amendment. (Mar 2007)
http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/bernie_sanders.htm
He walks the walk.
And there's nothing wrong with evolution, but if you need to "evolve" on civil rights you're no liberal.
Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
296 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations
Because you have to vote with them 100 percent of the time to get that. You know that, Manny.
MADem
Aug 2015
#63
I think you're referencing someone else--I don't compulsively alert--do you want me to?
MADem
Aug 2015
#258
Sorry--it wasn't me that sent you on your way, much as you seem to want to target/blame me.
MADem
Aug 2015
#262
No, I did not--I did observe that a post either got hidden or deleted (can't tell, since you don't
MADem
Aug 2015
#275
He got a C in 2006. He dances with them some years, and other years, not so much. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#101
Obama called Hillary "Annie Oakley" after that speech pandering to gun owners.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#113
Secretary of a State department stripped of its single most important responsibility.
ieoeja
Aug 2015
#256
You aren't the Oracle at Delphi, you are obviously getting your statements from somewhere.
MADem
Aug 2015
#270
I don't know about the poster in question but don't assume present Hillary supporters
A Simple Game
Aug 2015
#185
Some people don't understand the concept of SECOND CHOICE here at DU. That's the problem.
MADem
Aug 2015
#215
He represents the constituents of Vermont where there are few gun control laws. If it were
bjobotts
Aug 2015
#245
What a lovely post!! "Stop with the NRA crap cause we really don't give a shit" -- you are
MADem
Aug 2015
#260
Liberals don't know they're liberals eh. Oh give it up with the Bernie /NRA crap.We don't give a sh
bjobotts
Aug 2015
#243
Why don't you promote YOUR candidate? This is primary season and we don't much about
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#114
Lol, knitting? Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean I should stick to knitting!
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#121
Wow -- sexism IS alive and well! I still have a scarf knitted by my very late grandfather, AND
MADem
Aug 2015
#124
Absolutely. It is a common expression. I don't know most people's genders here, anyway.
MADem
Aug 2015
#131
Sanders also votes/voted against Neocon Wars (speaking of guns, how about WMDS killing
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#253
"That poster" just doesn't agree with you. I happen to prefer my POV to yours. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#219
No, he's not: Rated F by the NRA, indicating a pro-gun control voting record.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#27
Your link is old/inaccurate. His present rating, as the Jul 9 link I provided shows, is D MINUS. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#36
That's not accurate. It means he didn't vote with the NRA on every single issue. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#62
Anything less than slavish adherence will get a politician a bad grade. He got a C in 2006. nt
MADem
Aug 2015
#89
He's a good vote counter, I'll give him that. He threaded the needle well on that transaction.
MADem
Aug 2015
#142
Votes for Background Checks, Assault Weapons Ban = #Not Good Enough Bernie!!1!
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#144
It's easy to vote for things that don't pass, and you know they aren't going to pass, especially if
MADem
Aug 2015
#145
Right because Bernie's a liar and couldn't possibly have voted his conscience.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#147
I am not making those characterizations--but you are going out of your way to say nasty things about
MADem
Aug 2015
#149
Wow--that was an ugly post. Proud of yourself that you lost it so much you had to say that?
MADem
Aug 2015
#157
I'll let Barney Frank explain it to you. There is no "mantra." There's just simple reality.
MADem
Aug 2015
#221
I think we should let them keep pushing this. They THINK it's a winning issue
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#191
I don't. I look at the big picture--her record is stronger and better than his. Here, read this.
MADem
Aug 2015
#222
So it's either an A or an F? What about the C and D ratings you cited earlier?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#171
But he is.He's right with the NRA on most issues--he gets a D MINUS ONLY because he's not 100 %.
MADem
Aug 2015
#55
Here's what Bernie Sanders had to say after the Charleston massacre:
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#66
Obama is not on the ballot. And how many shootings have we had since Sandy Hook?
MADem
Aug 2015
#103
"It wasn't those cough-urban-cough types who have been shooting up movie theaters"
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#112
It doesn't matter what spin you put on it, Bernie is pro-gun control.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#120
Bernie's position on this issue is mainstream. I'm not worried about it all. Rural and urban areas
sabrina 1
Aug 2015
#119
Let's have a look at your candidate's record on same sex marriage, shall we?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#15
No, let's not. This thread isn't about "my candidate." Why don't you start one instead of
MADem
Aug 2015
#30
pointing out that a Bernie bashing article was written by a Hillary supporter adds perspective
azurnoir
Aug 2015
#51
It sounds like you believe that "liberal" means anti-capitalistic
ConservativeDemocrat
Aug 2015
#251
Again, you clearly think business is anti-democracy and "makes things worse"
ConservativeDemocrat
Aug 2015
#286
That is the way I took it also. My first historical memory was setting on my mothers lap crying as
jwirr
Aug 2015
#17
His strong appeal with Libertarians will probably be the end of him. That's what's alienating
MADem
Aug 2015
#44
I am liberal as is Third Way who supports minimum wage increases for one thing.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#5
The geopolitical chess moves, the destruction and creation of regimes, the mass slaughter,
Vattel
Aug 2015
#285
It's from ontheissues.org, if you want something more recent talk to them.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#69
Thank you for fixing that broken link. The reason your information is old is because it's from his
MADem
Aug 2015
#73
Remarks by Senator Sanders at the Southern Christian Leadership Conference
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#76
Obama and Bernie have both noted the difference in urban and rural gun use.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#85
Obama's not on the ballot in 2016. And people keep getting killed in movie theaters, churches,
MADem
Aug 2015
#91
"So" have they changed election law, and Obama's on the 2016 ballot? This thread isn't about Obama.
MADem
Aug 2015
#98
Bernie is pro-gun control, no amount of spin from HC supporters will change that fact.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#105
Kinda like HRC's equivocation on just about everything else then, yes?
PoutrageFatigue
Aug 2015
#230
I can see why you might be confused. Some think that if they say the support same sex marriage
rhett o rick
Aug 2015
#16
Is someone who opposes same sex marriage more "liberal" than someone who supports it?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#35
I'd say the one who opposed same sex marriage until 2013 is less liberal.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#52
Yes, it's not like "separate but equal" has any sort of negative history in our country. (nt)
jeff47
Aug 2015
#64
How about "no benefits" vs. "benefits--we can't wait for the law to catch up with what's right."
MADem
Aug 2015
#82
Opposing it by funding benefits for partners of LGBT diplomats and foreign service personnel.
MADem
Aug 2015
#88
Bernie always supported lgbt rights: benefits, marriage, anti-discrimination laws, etc.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#90
And where did he put his money where his mouth is? Did he ever pay benefits to same sex partners on
MADem
Aug 2015
#94
Some light reading for inquiring minds who actually care about lgbt rights:
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#104
TLDR--more is not better. HRC provided her federal employees with SSM benefits ahead of
MADem
Aug 2015
#154
That's okay. I wasn't referring to you, I meant people who care about the issue.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#158
If we stick together, there is nothing, nothing, nothing that we cannot do n/t
udbcrzy2
Aug 2015
#102
There's GOT to be a special award for getting locked out of your own OP.
Spitfire of ATJ
Aug 2015
#150
but but but socialism! He's unelectable poison! He's ruining the Dem chances!
Fast Walker 52
Aug 2015
#177
"We will call it like it is. We will fight like hell for Bernie, and against lies."
Zorra
Aug 2015
#200
Pretty impressive job of trying to trash Bernie Sanders by one poster on this thread.
Comrade Grumpy
Aug 2015
#201
Ugh, yeah. Reminds me of an ill informed friend who brought up Vince Foster last night....
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#235
Love you co-opting offense over be called "uppity". Especially since it had nothing to do w/your OP
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#244
I like liberals when they created Social Security but when then did mass incarceration it was a bad
Cheese Sandwich
Aug 2015
#263