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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: On what issue is Hillary better than Bernie? [View all]Sancho
(9,175 posts)237. Ok...this could take a while, because there's lots of details...but here goes one at a time.
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=77051
Selected quote from Hillary that have been pretty consistent (with minor variation for 10 years). This is useful (even though it's from 2007), because you can read the entire speech and see some detailed actions with the policy statements. Obviously, some things will change from 2008 to 2016. Which of the policies do you disagree with...and I picked this because it was BEFORE Bernie was on the scene, to you can't say Hillary is simply reacting to Bernie:
Here's a statement of some policy plans for the President:
I believe that one of the most crucial jobs of the next president is to define a new vision of economic fairness and prosperity for the 21st century, a vision for how we ensure greater opportunity for our next generation, and then to outline a strategy and then to implement it.
Today, I believe we need a new progressive vision for this new century. Now, I consider myself a thoroughly optimistic and modern progressive. I believe we can grow our economy in the face of global competition, and in a way that benefits all Americans.
I believe we can curb the excesses of the marketplace and provide more opportunities for more Americans to succeed.
I believe we can support and promote smart trade policies that truly enforce strong labor and environmental standards.
I believe we can help more workers join unions to improve wages and conditions in our workplaces for jobs that cannot be shipped overseas.
I believe that, just as 20th-century progressives fought corruption with a new civil service, we can restore competence to the front lines of our government and ensure that we never, ever experience another Hurricane Katrina.
In short, I believe that our government can once again work for all Americans. It can promote the great American tradition of opportunity for all and special privileges for none.
Today I want to focus on how we ensure both strong economic growth and economic fairness.
Selected quote from Hillary that have been pretty consistent (with minor variation for 10 years). This is useful (even though it's from 2007), because you can read the entire speech and see some detailed actions with the policy statements. Obviously, some things will change from 2008 to 2016. Which of the policies do you disagree with...and I picked this because it was BEFORE Bernie was on the scene, to you can't say Hillary is simply reacting to Bernie:
Now, it is working for corporations. Corporate profits have grown an average of 13% a year since 2001, adjusted for inflation. It's working for CEOs who've seen their pay go from 24 times the typical worker's in 1965, to 262 times the typical worker in 2005. And it's working for Americans with incomes at the very top. In 2005, all income gains went to the top 10% of households, while the bottom 90% saw their incomes decline, in spite of the fact that worker productivity has increased for six years.
Now, in past economic expansions, that's not the way it was. In the past, about 75% of net corporate revenues have gone to employee compensation, and only 25% to profits. However, for the past five years, the comparable figures are 41% going to employee compensation and 59% going to profits. Think about this: last year, the share of America's national income going to corporate profits was the highest since 1929 -- while the share going to the salaries of American workers was the lowest.
The inescapable reality is that globalization, modern technology, economic policy, are creating new conditions that threaten our middle class families and make it harder to maintain a middle class lifestyle.
Well, now we haven't heard much from Washington in the past six years about how to solve this growing problem of inequality. In fact, the tax, investment, trade and budget policies of the administration and its allies in Congress have made the problem worse.
I believe people are fed up with the policies of the past six years. So many people I talk to just want to hit the restart button on the 21st century and redo it the right way. And I agree with them.
Here's a statement of some policy plans for the President:
I believe that one of the most crucial jobs of the next president is to define a new vision of economic fairness and prosperity for the 21st century, a vision for how we ensure greater opportunity for our next generation, and then to outline a strategy and then to implement it.
Today, I believe we need a new progressive vision for this new century. Now, I consider myself a thoroughly optimistic and modern progressive. I believe we can grow our economy in the face of global competition, and in a way that benefits all Americans.
I believe we can curb the excesses of the marketplace and provide more opportunities for more Americans to succeed.
I believe we can support and promote smart trade policies that truly enforce strong labor and environmental standards.
I believe we can help more workers join unions to improve wages and conditions in our workplaces for jobs that cannot be shipped overseas.
I believe that, just as 20th-century progressives fought corruption with a new civil service, we can restore competence to the front lines of our government and ensure that we never, ever experience another Hurricane Katrina.
In short, I believe that our government can once again work for all Americans. It can promote the great American tradition of opportunity for all and special privileges for none.
Today I want to focus on how we ensure both strong economic growth and economic fairness.
Here's what I believe we should do.
First, I'm going to work to level the playing field and reduce the special breaks for big corporations. We say this in every campaign. We make a little bit of progress. And then unfortunately, when the Republicans get back in office, they reverse everything we've done and add to the corporate welfare.
Second, let's once and for all get rid of the incentives for American companies to ship jobs and profits overseas. It is one thing for the marketplace to encourage overseas investment. It's another for our own tax code to do so.
Third, let's reform the governance of our corporations and our financial sector. If you have any doubt about whether corporate governance impacts ordinary Americans, just think back to what happened at Enron, where thousands of workers lost much of their retirement savings.
Fourth, let's restore fiscal responsibility to our government. Let's get back to balanced budgets and save Social Security instead of running up our deficits.
Fifth, let's recommit ourselves to the idea that every young person in America who wants to should have the opportunity to attend college, and that a 21st-century education starts early in life and continues well into adulthood.
Sixth, for those who don't attend four-year colleges and those in the workforce who need to update their skills, let's provide more support for schools like this and for community colleges that prepare people for good, high-paying jobs.
Seventh, let's ensure that people who work hard every day can support their families and save for the future. I do not believe anyone who works full-time in America should draw a wage that puts that person below the poverty line. If you are a full time worker you should make more than poverty.
Eighth, let's ensure everyone the most fundamental benefit there is -- quality, affordable health care. Now, we know that this is going to be challenging but if we could spend more than $500 billion to fund the war in Iraq, we can surely make the basic investments to ensure that every American can see a doctor when he or she needs to.
Ninth and finally, let's make the investments we need to create the millions of good jobs necessary to lift up all of our families. To preserve and expand the middle class in an open, global economy, we have to have a source of good new jobs every five to eight years. Telecom did that during the вЂ90s. In this decade, that means an all out commitment to a clean, independent energy future.
First, I'm going to work to level the playing field and reduce the special breaks for big corporations. We say this in every campaign. We make a little bit of progress. And then unfortunately, when the Republicans get back in office, they reverse everything we've done and add to the corporate welfare.
Second, let's once and for all get rid of the incentives for American companies to ship jobs and profits overseas. It is one thing for the marketplace to encourage overseas investment. It's another for our own tax code to do so.
Third, let's reform the governance of our corporations and our financial sector. If you have any doubt about whether corporate governance impacts ordinary Americans, just think back to what happened at Enron, where thousands of workers lost much of their retirement savings.
Fourth, let's restore fiscal responsibility to our government. Let's get back to balanced budgets and save Social Security instead of running up our deficits.
Fifth, let's recommit ourselves to the idea that every young person in America who wants to should have the opportunity to attend college, and that a 21st-century education starts early in life and continues well into adulthood.
Sixth, for those who don't attend four-year colleges and those in the workforce who need to update their skills, let's provide more support for schools like this and for community colleges that prepare people for good, high-paying jobs.
Seventh, let's ensure that people who work hard every day can support their families and save for the future. I do not believe anyone who works full-time in America should draw a wage that puts that person below the poverty line. If you are a full time worker you should make more than poverty.
Eighth, let's ensure everyone the most fundamental benefit there is -- quality, affordable health care. Now, we know that this is going to be challenging but if we could spend more than $500 billion to fund the war in Iraq, we can surely make the basic investments to ensure that every American can see a doctor when he or she needs to.
Ninth and finally, let's make the investments we need to create the millions of good jobs necessary to lift up all of our families. To preserve and expand the middle class in an open, global economy, we have to have a source of good new jobs every five to eight years. Telecom did that during the вЂ90s. In this decade, that means an all out commitment to a clean, independent energy future.
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In my opinion Hillary has the advantage of better name reognition, yes, but I also do see
Cal33
Aug 2015
#264
If you're a Wall Streeter, Hillary's pro-banking agenda...if you're a CEO, her pro-corporate policies...if you're part of the military complex, her pro-war voting record.
InAbLuEsTaTe
Aug 2015
#276
Hillary certainly has more experience organizing failed regime change in Libya and Syria
leveymg
Aug 2015
#92
Point made about HRC's record as SoS is factual, unfortunately. It isn't a RW talking point.
leveymg
Aug 2015
#118
Any yet he polls well behind her in every poll I have seen in matchups with GOP candidates.
DCBob
Aug 2015
#37
I disagree. For decades politicians have engaged in 'correct speak' aided by
PatrickforO
Aug 2015
#129
Her negatives are not that high. Granted they are higher than her positives, This thread is about
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#199
I'm not talking about numbers. I'm talking about the fact that she has no appeal whatsoever
eridani
Aug 2015
#203
That may be true but this thread is looking for POLICIES where she is better than Bernie. We can't
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#207
The solid blue wall in the Electoral College virtually guarantees that any
totodeinhere
Aug 2015
#231
HRC - Controlled By Oligarchs, Corporations And Banks - A Favorite Friend Of The 1%
cantbeserious
Aug 2015
#106
I don't think that's clear. One could also argue that starting with single payer
DanTex
Aug 2015
#258
Simply put she foreign experience and a relationship with world leaders, she would not have to
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#11
OMG. You are laying the blame for the Iraq war, not on the people who voted for and shilled for it,
djean111
Aug 2015
#16
Facts are facts, perhaps you are not aware of Bernie's votes on war funding.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#20
Once the troops are there, you think the thing to do is leave them without support?
djean111
Aug 2015
#31
HC voted for the war and gets a pass, Bernie voted to support the troops and he's the bad guy.
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#162
Well, give them credit for a very bizarre spin. A spin that would not go over very well
djean111
Aug 2015
#166
He voted against the Iraq War. Had there been no war, there'd be no war funding. nt
valerief
Aug 2015
#228
Obama was smart enough to get Hillary as SOS. He also surrounded himself with very capable
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#56
And yet Obama gave Afghanistan and Iraq to Biden because he didn't trust Hillary to do what's right.
Exilednight
Aug 2015
#243
The question is about Hillary. What liberal policies would she pass? Support her position!
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#142
These Hillary supporters.. they don't have any concrete facts, so they come up with some bullshit.
Turchinsky
Aug 2015
#215
She sponsored a bill on minimum wage and another bill to tie minimum wage increases to Cingressional
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#164
Are you telling me you need yet another link to Clinton's advocacy of the Iraq war?
eridani
Aug 2015
#198
You need links to demonstrate that women and children were slaughtered in our ME adventures?
eridani
Aug 2015
#205
What I said in #192 was what any rational person would concede to be results of
eridani
Aug 2015
#209
Yes, I have wondered why Bernie voted for AUMF, this funded the bombs, and also troop expansion.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#212
If the bombs was not have been funded it would not have happened. The funding was the most
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#217
Dodging, I did not talk about body armors for our soldiers, I and not dodging that Hillary voted for
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#230
Bernie is also, it helps the defense contractors. He votes for the funding of wars because the
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#246
There has not been one issue posted so far that Bernie doesn't actually have a stronger record on
Live and Learn
Aug 2015
#10
You're wrong about the gun bill. Every other industry except for the gun industry *can* be
DanTex
Aug 2015
#19
All of them. Look at the text of the bill, it only applies to the gun industry.
DanTex
Aug 2015
#285
He has a record of voting no on trade agreements, this is a responsibility of a president, he can't
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#23
I am not using his strengths against him, the job he is running for requires he deal with trade.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#173
I have been truthful, I have said what I need to say, I don't need to this back and forth.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#179
Bernie has the international experience of my pet schnauzer. Short list of other stuff...
Sancho
Aug 2015
#12
Good post Sancho, yes she has board experience also, has served on a presidential cabinet also.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#26
Funny that you mention Madoff...that's a common meme here in FL...vote for "another Bernie"
Sancho
Aug 2015
#62
Do all of those links point to Sanders' desire for already-budgeted jobs
MannyGoldstein
Aug 2015
#80
Generally Hillary makes progressive or liberal decisions...she's a fairly liberal Democrat...
Sancho
Aug 2015
#151
The question for thread is "On what issue is Hillary better than Bernie"? Respectfully this is not
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#152
I saw the pet schnauzer post and believe it is a nice historical portrate of activities,
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#155
Ok...this could take a while, because there's lots of details...but here goes one at a time.
Sancho
Aug 2015
#237
I see a lot of hot air. Ballanced Budget nonsence and vague suggestions. Where is Free Education for
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#259
We will have to agree to disagree. " The Financial Transaction Tax is a HORRIBLE idea " BS we had
Vincardog
Aug 2015
#263
There are lots of disagreements about the FTTs...including the chances that it would ever pass...
Sancho
Aug 2015
#265
Links are simply convenient...it's not like it's hard to check Hillary's record.
Sancho
Aug 2015
#234
Obama is not running this time so it is the present candidates experience and abilities.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#28
This is why I am a Hillary supporter, she supports my ideals more than the other declared DNC
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#53
Better pay for women? Then why doesn't she support a federal minimum wage of $15/hr?
beam me up scottie
Aug 2015
#160
Yes, and George W was also elected, terrible president, did a lot of wrong things, took down two
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#49
The Opinions Of Others - Does Not List Actual Acomplishments - Only Allusions To Accomplishments
cantbeserious
Aug 2015
#247
Not opinions.. these are actual items of experience. ie.. Senator, Secretary of State, etc.
DCBob
Aug 2015
#248
I think Bernie supporters (and I am one) pooh pooh the electibility argument.
el_bryanto
Aug 2015
#36
The candidate of "hardworking people, white people" wil be better at protecting black communities?
eridani
Aug 2015
#195
That she was willing to say it to attack a black presidential candidate is appalling
eridani
Aug 2015
#270
I disagree with your interpretation, but I appreciate that you have raised an actual issue
Armstead
Aug 2015
#97
I think many of us who want a CLEAN immigration bill passed would support him because he WOULD too!
cascadiance
Aug 2015
#204
Why don't YOU come up with the issues on which Sanders is better than Clinton, okay?
George II
Aug 2015
#59
The entire premise of the OP is argumentative with an undertone of one with a chip on one's shoulder
George II
Aug 2015
#127
HRC is better at taking donations from Wall St CEOs and Corporate Super Packs
FreakinDJ
Aug 2015
#64
and can Sanders beat the Republicans without money? Can't deny that either!
VanillaRhapsody
Aug 2015
#65
Keep telling yourself Bernie can get elected on dreams and wishes alone...
VanillaRhapsody
Aug 2015
#74
Everyone dies. Nothing lasts. Therefore nothing ultimately matters.THAT'S REALITY.
Armstead
Aug 2015
#87
Just a visceral response to that ever-present dismissive putdown using that word
Armstead
Aug 2015
#110
Obviously under the circumstances....my "position" is that our opponents
VanillaRhapsody
Aug 2015
#116
I think you (guys) lose a lot of credibility with the "both parties the same" bullshit. Everytime I
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#169
See, this rhetoric (even this Yes- but...' REPLY) is ridiculous- you are focused on economics ONLY
bettyellen
Aug 2015
#171
I did not know a president was only supposed to represent the interest of a few, I thought it was
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#91
One difference is the number of years spent in Congress, 1991 to present for Bernie,
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#109
On issues, she is not better than Bernie. She has name recognition and money.
peacebird
Aug 2015
#123
The two are detached by the comma as was the part before and the part after that you didn't bold.
NCTraveler
Aug 2015
#233
Virtually none and if any rare thing like women's health it is a great record to
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#146
Bernie seems to be running against Obama's legacy and Hillary is running on solidifying it and
bravenak
Aug 2015
#178
Bernie said he thought Obama should be primaried. Look in the AA group. On Tobin's thread.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#184
I don't care why. Obama is the Democratic President of the Untited States and our first black one.
bravenak
Aug 2015
#188
Wow. More than 250 responses, yet no HRC supporter has been able to answer the question in the OP:
kath
Aug 2015
#256
On the issue of being able to win a national election, which is the most important issue
Recursion
Aug 2015
#271