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onenote

(42,702 posts)
27. Several flaws in Turley's idea
Sun Jun 24, 2012, 11:00 PM
Jun 2012

First, the factual flaws. With its current make up, unanimous decisions occur almost twice as often as 5-4 decisions. And while there are certain patterns, not every 5-4 decision splits along the same lines. In addition, Turley's reliance on the size of the appellate courts is misleading. Circuit court decisions are made by 3 judge panels. On rare occasion, the cases are re-heard "en banc" -- by a larger panel of appellate judges. How rare? The circuit that hears more cases en banc than any other in recent years has been the 9th circuit and it still only hears about 2 dozen cases en banc --- and consider that this is only after the case already has been heard and the bar for overturning the original panel is quite high. Some circuits, like the 2nd, hardly ever hear a case en banc. And none of the circuits, except the 9th has 19 judges (most have between 11 and 17). The 9th has 29 judges, but when it hears case en banc only 11 participate.

Second, the practical problems. As noted en banc consideration of an appellate case, which Turley cites as support for his proposal, occurs very infrequently. The SCOTUS decides over 100 cases each term. What Turley doesn't acknowledge is that with a large bench, the workload actually will increase as each justice will have to address comments from more than twice the number of justices as present. The result will be a much slower process in terms of getting to a final decision and/or an even greater number of concurrences and dissents. One of the biggest problem the court has now is not 5-4 decisions, but rather the number of concurrences and dissents, which create uncertainty with respect to where the law stands. A recent case in point is one in which there was a majority for a particular outcome, but no majority for any one theory of how to get to that outcome. There actually was a majority that agreed that the plurality's theory was wrong, but some members of that majority agreed with the result reached by the plurality, not the reasoning. What Turley ignores is increasing the size of the court inevitably will increase that the number of situations in which an appellant or appellee might "win" a case, even though less than a majority of the court can agree on why that party should win. Not a healthy situation and certainly not one that will result in less controversy or more clarity in the law.

I suspect Prof. Turley is aware of all of these things, but since it doesn't fit his argument, he simply chooses to ignore them rather than address them. Which, sadly, is his style.

Lets just make the Supreme Court another house of Congress Drale Jun 2012 #1
Take away their power for judicial review that they gave themselves. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #33
Who would take it away, how, and what would be the result? onenote Jun 2012 #35
Those are all good questions except the last. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #38
The last question is an extreme example, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be answered onenote Jun 2012 #39
Sorry, I didnt mean it was a bad question. I meant that I dont have a clue for rhett o rick Jun 2012 #42
If the Constitution isn't enforceable, what is the point of having a Constitution? onenote Jun 2012 #45
The Constitution is only as good as the SCOTUS interprets it. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #46
Bush vs Gore and Citizens United aside, I'd much rather have even this court doing judicial review Hippo_Tron Jun 2012 #43
There is no guarantee that the SCOTUS will do what you think is the right thing. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #47
I think you might find this interesting reading. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #49
It is allowed by Marbury versus Madison, 1803. Manifestor_of_Light Jun 2012 #36
If snark is all you got, go away and try bullying someone else. nm rhett o rick Jun 2012 #37
So read Marbury versus Madison. Manifestor_of_Light Jun 2012 #40
I have read Marbury vs. Madison. And I agree it establishes judicial review. rhett o rick Jun 2012 #41
"Crafting legislation" is a populist misnomer Hippo_Tron Jun 2012 #44
Chance of Congress changing the court size in the next few years, how close to zero ? n/t PoliticAverse Jun 2012 #2
Maybe someday the SCOTUS will be a real issue in the Presidential elections and the left will be libinnyandia Jun 2012 #3
That's what I'm hoping for, too. One day . . . one day. eom BlueCaliDem Jun 2012 #24
It is important now gmee2 Jun 2012 #25
I disagree.......... Swede Atlanta Jun 2012 #4
Slightly Larger Has Merit DallasNE Jun 2012 #12
I concur. Nine justices is far too easy to "partisan lock," witness the Felonious Five and their... Raster Jun 2012 #13
I understand your point but why would a SC judge... progress2k12nbynd Jun 2012 #16
Then why are the appelate courts not unwieldy? -- n/t mazzarro Jun 2012 #20
Appelate courts are almost always 3 judges sitting as a panel. former9thward Jun 2012 #23
Who cares what Turley says? MightyOkie Jun 2012 #5
Yes. You can start your own thread to oppose it. You can do so even if you're not a lawyer. drm604 Jun 2012 #19
didn't Roosevelt appoint more members or consider appointing more? grasswire Jun 2012 #6
here it is grasswire Jun 2012 #7
was that the same people who attempted a military coup against FDR? n/t grasswire Jun 2012 #9
See the first two paragraphs on the link below Tx4obama Jun 2012 #8
I think Justices shouldn't serve for life. beyurslf Jun 2012 #10
What difference would that make? BlueDemKev Jun 2012 #11
A larger Court would have a more diverse group's life experience to draw upon. SunSeeker Jun 2012 #18
Moderation no longer exists??? Doctor_J Jun 2012 #21
a single president wouldn't be able to pack the court. Doctor_J Jun 2012 #22
If Obama is re-elected, I want him to 'pack the court' to overcome the same things FDR did. freshwest Jun 2012 #14
and exactly how do you think he can do that onenote Jun 2012 #28
GOTV. Have you got another solution? freshwest Jun 2012 #29
I'm working hard to ensure Obama's reelection onenote Jun 2012 #30
I live in the real world, too. Did I say it was easy? Argue with the OP, not just me. freshwest Jun 2012 #31
Turley is to law bupkus Jun 2012 #15
I agree with Turley. Tuesday Afternoon Jun 2012 #17
me too.....n/t jaysunb Jun 2012 #26
Several flaws in Turley's idea onenote Jun 2012 #27
Thank you DemocratsForProgress Jun 2012 #34
I say: Dem packing SCOTUS equals 61 vote Senate tactic. grasswire Jun 2012 #32
Sounds good. Let Obama pick 10 more. morningfog Jun 2012 #48
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