2016 Postmortem

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

44. Yet another straw man argument.

Sat Aug 15, 2015, 02:56 AM

Aug 2015

No one is saying "one must not question Bernie" and the continued assertion is devastating to credibility.

Disagreeing with a politician's positions is holding his or her feet to the fire. Raising the criticism that positions with which you agree are listed on the website under a heading that you would word differently is not holding anyone's fight to the fire -- it's being petulant.

The point about "Real Family Values" should be clear to anyone who's paying attention to the broader political debate in this country. The right wing has adopted "family values" as a slogan. It's generally used to cover misogyny, homophobia, Christofascism, etc. Sanders's website uses the heading "Real Family Values" to take the fight to those people and call out their hypocrisy.

I think it's a good choice. Even if you disagree with the choice, though, most reasonable people would consider the substance of the policies to be more important than a minor detail of their presentation.

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Where is Bernie Sanders on Gender Justice? [View all] ismnotwasm Aug 2015 OP

Here. Picking Dem Aug 2015 #1

The Women's Health Protection Act looks great BainsBane Aug 2015 #2

AND--This isn't a hit piece ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #3

Post removed Post removed Aug 2015 #97

Prioritize over what? Black Lives Matter? Luminous Animal Aug 2015 #8

That comment was uncalled for ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #15

Exactly... no one "painted BS as racist.." his supporters in his name.. just accused Cha Aug 2015 #27

Turns out they were right? noooooooo, not exactly Armstead Aug 2015 #42

Wait... you have a Stop the XL Pipeline Fawke Em Aug 2015 #121

Um, yeah. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #147

um. no. that would just be supporters painting it as such, as many of us seabeyond Aug 2015 #150

I'M welcome that YOU educated Bernie Sanders to allow blacks to sit at the table? THAT'S fukn FUNNY cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #157

well. me and tons of others. you know, all those people you fought so hard against. seabeyond Aug 2015 #165

All those people I fought against? Was I fighting someone? I don't remember fighting anyone. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #177

the picture was in a story of words about black life and experience. it was part of their story. seabeyond Aug 2015 #178

The picture was in a blog post that informed readers what the blogger thought about Bernie Sanders. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #181

You are 100% correct in your statement that it's "really, not tough" yet still, you are wrong. seabeyond Aug 2015 #184

How cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #199

the picture had nothing to do with sanders. it had to do with black life experiences. seabeyond Aug 2015 #213

Yawn. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #214

nite seabeyond Aug 2015 #216

Have a wonderful evening sb. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #218

thank you for this post. seabeyond Aug 2015 #219

Making nice whenever possible actually feels like having a heavy load lifted from my shoulders. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #220

ya. i agree. i believe... we can be that good. seabeyond Aug 2015 #222

You see ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #126

Yes, I'm starting to understand that ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #194

Over the sensibilities of white anti-choice voters BainsBane Aug 2015 #24

Hillary Clinton spent 17 years preaching at me that she opposed my rights because of her 'faith' Bluenorthwest Aug 2015 #58

It was wrong ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #65

Gentle questioning? Armstead Aug 2015 #81

+10000000 azmom Aug 2015 #108

And another +10000000 senz Aug 2015 #144

thank you for speaking the truth Vattel Aug 2015 #163

We've reached the summit of Bullshit Mountain. AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #129

we have arrived! restorefreedom Aug 2015 #137

I thought it was funny to read that with her "H" logo avatar just to the left of those words LOL n/t cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #148

I have to respectfully disagree. Vattel Aug 2015 #192

There is no end to their cynicism. sibelian Aug 2015 #227

about clinton? i know. it is bad, right? seabeyond Aug 2015 #233

So tired of this racist and now sexist BS. nt slipslidingaway Aug 2015 #26

No one is "painting BS racist".. and they're not accusing him of being sexist. Only in the minds of Cha Aug 2015 #28

Where are the threads about Hillary, O'Malley, Chaffee and Webb on gender equality ... slipslidingaway Aug 2015 #35

Hillary is great on Women's Issues! Cha Aug 2015 #41

Unless you're an lgbt woman. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #63

Did he? ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #70

Of course. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #72

Why don't you point to evidence for. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #74

Evidence provided. Picking Dem Aug 2015 #77

Oh yeah ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #98

For your reading pleasure: 32 Years Before Marriage Equality, Bernie Sanders Fought For Gay Rights beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #105

Sure, you can start here: beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #79

You too ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #99

Seen that hit piece. It's speculation from a whiner who didn't get an interview with Sanders. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #102

An alternative interpretation... Armstead Aug 2015 #118

For a article supposedly about Sanders, seems odd that he isn't mentioned til 75% the way through. Lancero Aug 2015 #120

Ikr? He talked more about the UVM hockey scandal than Bernie. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #123

Hillary is great on all women's issue.. Don't care what some BS supporter has to say. Cha Aug 2015 #75

You don't care what lgbt people like Bluenorthwest have to say? beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #80

Of course she doesn't. She already has her ticket to the coronation. cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #152

Bernie is great on all women's issues, regardless of what some HC supporter has to say. nt cyberswede Aug 2015 #89

Unless you're a woman in Iraq. Kaboom! #Shock&Awe AtomicKitten Aug 2015 #130

or a woman in kosovo then, 1999... boom. right? not like sanders seabeyond Aug 2015 #138

Yet another straw man argument. Jim Lane Aug 2015 #44

Oh yeah, they are.. no one gets to question BS. End of story. I've seen it too many times. and, Cha Aug 2015 #46

OMG! When Sanders is criticized, his supporters answer the criticism! Jim Lane Aug 2015 #47

OMG!!!! You can deny it all you want.. it doesn't make it any less true. Cha Aug 2015 #49

you don't seem to know the difference between fact and opinion. cali Aug 2015 #100

Do you? ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #158

Then I look forward to your enlightening the rest of us. cheapdate Aug 2015 #182

If we dare ask what he plans to do to protect our civil rights BainsBane Aug 2015 #30

All you have to do is listen to what he says and if you are not willing to that at least ask ... slipslidingaway Aug 2015 #37

It questions that assumption BainsBane Aug 2015 #170

The op used a loaded question to imply that Bernie doesn't care about my rights as a woman. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #53

We women are smart. We know who cares about our rights and we know who's Autumn Aug 2015 #85

Exactly. STOP exploiting women's issues, Hillary supporters. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #87

That all they can do but I find it wierd to see a poster who considered Hillary Autumn Aug 2015 #90

Morally depraved? beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #92

A whole fooking lot Autumn Aug 2015 #95

Well said. senz Aug 2015 #154

lol. cali Aug 2015 #64

LULZ corkhead Aug 2015 #122

LOL juror #4 cyberswede Aug 2015 #125

No one was painting Bernie as a racist ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #127

Exactly.. and some still haven't learned that whole strawman attack didn't work out so Cha Aug 2015 #136

NO ONE... stated, implied, or suggest sanders was a racist. further, everyone clarified sanders seabeyond Aug 2015 #139

Ohhh, you knew that was coming, didn't you? senz Aug 2015 #141

KaPow! Bernie policy delivered! peacebird Aug 2015 #4

Well yes--that's easy to find ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #5

As a woman, working in a 'man's' job for decades, I can say with no regrets that Bernie is the only peacebird Aug 2015 #6

And has for decades. Luminous Animal Aug 2015 #7

You must be joking ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #11

Maybe they should use their brain power and look up his record. Luminous Animal Aug 2015 #12

The topic is Gender. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #14

The topic was framed as Sanders "struggling" with women's issues Armstead Aug 2015 #23

They're too busy acting like being a woman automatically makes Hillary a better candidate for women. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #51

The topic is Senator Sanders on women's rights (I stand corrected) ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #71

Why? She already declared that Bernie "struggles" to talk about gender issues. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #78

He's had 30 years to prepare. Control-Z Aug 2015 #187

Apparently not Armstead Aug 2015 #22

Self delete,. Put in wrong place Armstead Aug 2015 #117

But,but,but... Armstead Aug 2015 #21

He's against it Armstead Aug 2015 #9

Now now ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #13

I have a difficult tine with an article that gripes because... Armstead Aug 2015 #18

Good post. nt cyberswede Aug 2015 #19

^^THIS^^ beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #62

Okey Dokey ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #66

Then why the question? nt TBF Aug 2015 #143

So it looks like Sanders supporters thus far ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #10

Yah, Bernie might be OK, if you squint, delrem Aug 2015 #16

Of course. Any issue that comes up... BS is perfect. Everyone else must have their "feet held Cha Aug 2015 #25

Not true. But total trumped up distortions are challenged Armstead Aug 2015 #29

The article addresses that very point BainsBane Aug 2015 #31

Yeah, okay. Bernie does'n't care about women, and neither do his supporters Armstead Aug 2015 #36

It's the new meme and it's just as hillaryous as the original 'Not Good Enough Bernie'. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #52

Sounds to me like Bernie supporters sheshe2 Aug 2015 #34

What's a legitimate concern on this? Armstead Aug 2015 #39

They can REFUSE all they need to, she.. but, it's not going to do a damn bit of good. the questions Cha Aug 2015 #40

Who the hell is refusing? Armstead Aug 2015 #43

What legitimate concerns? The op is a do over of the 'Not Good Enough Bernie' hit piece you posted. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #54

Why don't you and Cha stop with the low blow snarky crap davidpdx Aug 2015 #61

I am so sorry your feelings have been hurt. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #156

"Why don't you stop with the low blow snarky crap?" Cha Aug 2015 #212

that was a hit piece wrapped up in "concern". Bernie is fluent on the issues cali Aug 2015 #103

Ask him. You may be surprised. Cleita Aug 2015 #17

He's for it. n/t tazkcmo Aug 2015 #20

How about this? Why isn't Ms. Clinton out stumping to relaunch the ERA? Hydra Aug 2015 #32

Here is one applicable link. CentralMass Aug 2015 #33

A more interesting OP might have asked where ALL the candidates are on gender justice. Comrade Grumpy Aug 2015 #38

Isn't Bernie Sanders married? nilesobek Aug 2015 #45

bernie had been married twice. He has one biologival child by a woman underthematrix Aug 2015 #48

I feel confident that Bernie is very pro-choice, but this is ridiculous gollygee Aug 2015 #67

Pfft. Legitimate question my ass. It's as legit as "When did he stop beating his wife?" beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #50

Oh, boy. Now Bernie hates women. Vinca Aug 2015 #55

They've already been there done that for Latinos and lgbt people: beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #59

He most certainly does Not hate women. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #73

Apparently my attempt at humor failed. Vinca Aug 2015 #88

no, he just struggles with them. liars suck. cali Aug 2015 #104

They certainly do ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #151

Seriously, anything to discredit him - TBF Aug 2015 #145

I think the article highlights one of the BS campaign weaknesses GitRDun Aug 2015 #56

That's a reasonable response, although I disagree about the nature of these things Armstead Aug 2015 #57

You may be right about Clinton supporters, IDK GitRDun Aug 2015 #111

Okay....But I'm not sure what you mean by banned? Armstead Aug 2015 #115

And that's what I hoped to hear. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #68

Thrash out issues? Fine. That's different than distorting generalities. Armstead Aug 2015 #82

You are on fire in this thread, Armstead! beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #83

I'm pissed off. Bernies been one of my heroes since the 1990's, and I cannot abide lies about him. Armstead Aug 2015 #84

Agree 100% beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #86

The problem is that they have so little to work with in terms of Bernie's record virtualobserver Aug 2015 #106

No kidding. Upthread the op is trying to "prove" that Bernie didn't always support lgbt rights. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #107

There have been many attempts to "prove" that over the last few weeks virtualobserver Aug 2015 #109

And in the process they're swift boating a true ally who fought for their rights. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #110

Nice analysis, virtualobserver. senz Aug 2015 #160

And I agree with you, bmus senz Aug 2015 #146

This is an issue I am passionate about ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #101

Okay. Here are a few suggestions Armstead Aug 2015 #114

That something stupid and obnoxious (rape poetry) Control-Z Aug 2015 #189

Fine. Hold it against him and don't vote for him. I dont care Armstead Aug 2015 #190

I will, hands down vote for the Democratic President. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #196

As will I. Control-Z Aug 2015 #204

What happened to that advice you offered us? Control-Z Aug 2015 #203

I was frustrated and had been on DU too long dealing with this kind of stuff Armstead Aug 2015 #205

He did not write rape poetry! TM99 Aug 2015 #228

I've examined his record. ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #195

I agree with you 100% gollygee Aug 2015 #69

I agree with you on debates GitRDun Aug 2015 #112

Hillary Clinton on the Sanctity of Marriage, hers being so glorious she is allowed to judge others: Bluenorthwest Aug 2015 #60

And this - " its primary, principal role during those millennia has been the raising and socializing djean111 Aug 2015 #91

Ever More Attacks On Bernie Over Topics Already Addressed cantbeserious Aug 2015 #76

Yep. And if Bernie had said anything at all remotely like what Hillary said ten years ago - djean111 Aug 2015 #93

All Too True - Rationalization And Self-Deception Are Amazing Tranquilizers cantbeserious Aug 2015 #94

anyone who claims this isn't an attack.is full of it. cali Aug 2015 #96

As a latina, I cannot support Hillary because she azmom Aug 2015 #113

Same questions of the current poll leader? (Hillary) MH1 Aug 2015 #116

This is the best they've got? Really? LadyHawkAZ Aug 2015 #119

Didn't the Clinton's invent the "abortion ought to be rare" meme as a way to triangulate over Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #124

Great OP ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #128

Oh I don't know why.... Armstead Aug 2015 #161

Did you read the OP? ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #193

I don't think some here did ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #197

I think you are correct. And, my question remains ... why? n/t 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #206

I saw Sanders' speech in Los Angeles at the Stadium. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #211

same issue blm has. take it beyond the economic discussion. we need to know he GETS we are on an seabeyond Aug 2015 #215

There is no doubt in my mind after listening to several of Sanders' speeches that JDPriestly Aug 2015 #221

from the plans he propose to his insistence that economic equality will address the issues, seabeyond Aug 2015 #223

I did and the original article Armstead Aug 2015 #198

Okay ... but don't you, also, see this as, yet, another instance of ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #207

Once again.... Armstead Aug 2015 #208

Okay ... 1StrongBlackMan Aug 2015 #209

Where he has been for decades. Where is HRC on TPP today? Motown_Johnny Aug 2015 #131

over the last couple months i saw sanders fail, the one opportunity being an advocate for women. seabeyond Aug 2015 #132

i remember that now, seabeyond. Oh but BS is perfect on everything.. his supporters accused those Cha Aug 2015 #133

but, you can darn well bet the sanders supporters appreciates and praises sanders for finally, ..... seabeyond Aug 2015 #134

Precisely.. they conveniently dismiss the actions that resulted in people asking questions and Cha Aug 2015 #135

No you won't hear anything because he's oblivious to all social issues and he's hostile Armstead Aug 2015 #155

so you are one that did not learn the first round, with blm issue. seabeyond Aug 2015 #162

No I haven't learned that Sanders is oblivious and unsupportive Armstead Aug 2015 #164

that didnt do it for blm, now, did it? seabeyond Aug 2015 #167

My honest opinion Armstead Aug 2015 #169

ya. i listened to that. good for him. said it well. so? still fucked up the planned parenthood seabeyond Aug 2015 #172

Whatever.... Armstead Aug 2015 #173

see, you pretend as if there is actually a conversation as you specifically go to extreme seabeyond Aug 2015 #174

I am sarcastic because I am sick of seeing him (and supporters) trashed for the wrong reasons Armstead Aug 2015 #175

i want him to advocate for women and our issues. blacks want him to advocate for blacks seabeyond Aug 2015 #179

Thisn is becoming a circular argument but let me explain this.. Armstead Aug 2015 #183

no. he was not receptive. conversation was being had prior to netroot and he was not receptive seabeyond Aug 2015 #185

I stand by what I just wrote, and you are free to disagree. Armstead Aug 2015 #186

that really is the bottom line. we disagree. nothing nefarious nor insult needed. seabeyond Aug 2015 #188

That is not correct azmom Aug 2015 #201

"I want to support Bernie. I really do." But but but but .... senz Aug 2015 #140

at 17'ish% nationally and only two states of 50, you think it is a good idea to reject voters? lol seabeyond Aug 2015 #142

Bernie is the ONLY candidate running who cares more about the American people senz Aug 2015 #149

"I don't want YOU to." my comment is about you feeling it is a good move to reject sanders voters seabeyond Aug 2015 #159

Ahhh...I should have used the dripping sarcasm emoticon.... senz Aug 2015 #166

psssst, you told a possible voter to go away. we all have unique ways to run campaigns. seabeyond Aug 2015 #171

Look, I'm sorry Bernie Sanders bothers you so much. senz Aug 2015 #176

you tell a voter to go away, i laugh and your conclusion is i have such a problem with sanders, seabeyond Aug 2015 #180

Maybe you need to look up the word "parody." nt senz Aug 2015 #200

Maybe you ought to not tell people sanders doesn't need their votes, you think? seabeyond Aug 2015 #202

I want to support Bernie too... but... sibelian Aug 2015 #229

Uh-huh. Yes. Affirmative. Definitely. senz Aug 2015 #230

Damn ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #153

Another way to look at the information: guillaumeb Aug 2015 #168

I trust Bernie on justice for all. If you wouldjust give him half a chance, you would see that he Live and Learn Aug 2015 #191

O'Malley bigtree Aug 2015 #210

this would be a difference. thank you. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #217

hey, you! bigtree Aug 2015 #224

ty.... and seabeyond Aug 2015 #226

The OP is absolutely shameless. nt Romulox Aug 2015 #225

Yawn. demmiblue Aug 2015 #231

Here is Bernie on civil rights issues. mmonk Aug 2015 #232

omg. seriously? 2banon Aug 2015 #234

K&R Gothmog Aug 2015 #235

knr ericson00 Aug 2015 #236

I'm going to assume Alyssa Peterson isn't as stupid as this piece makes her seem, Maedhros Aug 2015 #237