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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Can Bernie Sanders Win the Love of a Party He Scorns? [View all]seabeyond
(110,159 posts)117. yes. he lost many running for the socialist party. and lost the first run for congress
splitting the dem vote and repug winning, hence making the deal. i said viable dem.
Between 1981 and 1988, it is true, Sanders presented himself to the left outside of Vermont as the leader of the third party movement, vanquishing the two major parties in every Mayoral election. But in 1988, Sanders got a lesson on the perils of third party politics when he ran for federal office. In the election for Vermonts seat in the House of Representatives, the independent Sanders and Democrat Paul Poirer divided the majority vote and the contest went to a Republican. Sanders responded by drifting right and cutting a deal with the Vermont Democrats: the party would permit no serious candidate to run against him while he blocked serious third party formation in Vermont and adopted positions in line with the national corporate war Democrats. Millers up-close account merits lengthy quotation:
Bernie out of office for the first time in eight years went to the Kennedy School at Harvard for six months and came back with a new relationship with the states Democrats. The Vermont Democratic Party leadership has allowed no authorized candidate to run against Bernie in 1990 (or since) and in return, Bernie has repeatedly blocked third party building. His closet party, the Democrats, are very worried about a left 3rd party forming in Vermont. In the last two elections, Sanders has prevented Progressives in his machine from running against Howard Dean, our conservative Democratic Governor who was ahead of Gingrich in the attack on welfare.
The unauthorized Democratic candidate in 1990, Delores Sandoval, an African American faculty member at the University of Vermont, was amazed that the official party treated her as a nonperson and Bernie kept outflanking her to her right. She opposed the Gulf build-up, Bernie supported it. She supported decriminalization of drug use and Bernie defended the war on drugs, and so on
After being safely elected in November of 1990, Bernie continued to support the buildup while seeking membership in the Democratic Congressional Caucus with the enthusiastic support of the Vermont Democratic Party leadership. But, the national Democratic Party blew him off, so he finally voted against the war and returned home and as the war began belatedly claimed to be the leader of the anti-war movement in Vermont.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bernie-out-of-the-closet-sanders-longstanding-deal-with-the-democrats/
Bernie out of office for the first time in eight years went to the Kennedy School at Harvard for six months and came back with a new relationship with the states Democrats. The Vermont Democratic Party leadership has allowed no authorized candidate to run against Bernie in 1990 (or since) and in return, Bernie has repeatedly blocked third party building. His closet party, the Democrats, are very worried about a left 3rd party forming in Vermont. In the last two elections, Sanders has prevented Progressives in his machine from running against Howard Dean, our conservative Democratic Governor who was ahead of Gingrich in the attack on welfare.
The unauthorized Democratic candidate in 1990, Delores Sandoval, an African American faculty member at the University of Vermont, was amazed that the official party treated her as a nonperson and Bernie kept outflanking her to her right. She opposed the Gulf build-up, Bernie supported it. She supported decriminalization of drug use and Bernie defended the war on drugs, and so on
After being safely elected in November of 1990, Bernie continued to support the buildup while seeking membership in the Democratic Congressional Caucus with the enthusiastic support of the Vermont Democratic Party leadership. But, the national Democratic Party blew him off, so he finally voted against the war and returned home and as the war began belatedly claimed to be the leader of the anti-war movement in Vermont.
http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/07/21/bernie-out-of-the-closet-sanders-longstanding-deal-with-the-democrats/
In the 1990s, however, Sanders set his sites on higher office--not by building an alternative party, but by running as an independent who maintained a collaborative relationship with the Democrats.
Once ensconced in Washington as a member of the House and Senate, he abandoned his principled opposition to the two-party system. As Vermont Democrat Howard Dean--a former candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination himself--stated, "He is basically a liberal Democrat, and he is a Democrat at that--he runs as an Independent because he doesn't like the structure and money that gets involved...The bottom line is that Bernie Sanders votes with the Democrats 98 percent of the time."
Since he made his arrangement with the Democrats, Sanders has uncritically supported them in Vermont elections. As a result, when his ally, Gov. Peter Shumlin, declared war on state workers, Sanders didn't even issue a statement in opposition. His silence led many in Vermont to ask: "Where's Bernie?"
http://socialistworker.org/2015/05/05/problem-bernie-sanders
Once ensconced in Washington as a member of the House and Senate, he abandoned his principled opposition to the two-party system. As Vermont Democrat Howard Dean--a former candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination himself--stated, "He is basically a liberal Democrat, and he is a Democrat at that--he runs as an Independent because he doesn't like the structure and money that gets involved...The bottom line is that Bernie Sanders votes with the Democrats 98 percent of the time."
Since he made his arrangement with the Democrats, Sanders has uncritically supported them in Vermont elections. As a result, when his ally, Gov. Peter Shumlin, declared war on state workers, Sanders didn't even issue a statement in opposition. His silence led many in Vermont to ask: "Where's Bernie?"
http://socialistworker.org/2015/05/05/problem-bernie-sanders
Sanders ran, and now it appeared that his courting of the Democrats paid off.
Their big guns stayed out of the way, apparently assured that Sanders was close enough to being a Democrat already. With the help of the National Rifle Association, which hated the Republican incumbent, Sanders won.
His association with Democrats continued to pay off.
By 1991, Sanders although still officially an independent was part of the Democratic caucus in Congress, climbing the partys seniority ladder. He has not faced a serious challenge from a Democrat in all the elections since.
Why would you run against him, you know what I mean? said Jeff Weaver, a longtime Sanders staffer and current campaign manager. For Democratic leaders in Congress, he said, Sanders was a more reliable vote than a lot of other people down there who had a D after their name.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bernie-sanders-says-hes-a-socialist-his-old-socialist-buddies-say-not-so-much/2015/07/25/a3948256-3145-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html
Their big guns stayed out of the way, apparently assured that Sanders was close enough to being a Democrat already. With the help of the National Rifle Association, which hated the Republican incumbent, Sanders won.
His association with Democrats continued to pay off.
By 1991, Sanders although still officially an independent was part of the Democratic caucus in Congress, climbing the partys seniority ladder. He has not faced a serious challenge from a Democrat in all the elections since.
Why would you run against him, you know what I mean? said Jeff Weaver, a longtime Sanders staffer and current campaign manager. For Democratic leaders in Congress, he said, Sanders was a more reliable vote than a lot of other people down there who had a D after their name.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/bernie-sanders-says-hes-a-socialist-his-old-socialist-buddies-say-not-so-much/2015/07/25/a3948256-3145-11e5-97ae-30a30cca95d7_story.html
some really interesting articles, besides what i excerpt. i have had a blast reading about sanders history that is very public. there is not a single thing that makes me dislike the man, or think less of him. whether i agree with his position and how he is running his campaign or not. i applaud 4 decades of his consistency. he is clear and articulate about his position, what he thinks and how he feels we should move forward. and i do not have an issue with him being a politician, seeing how he is a politician and he wants to win. it was a win win win all around. i always strive for win win win.
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He has to win the votes in order to get the delegates, not sure if he can get enough.
Thinkingabout
Aug 2015
#2
no. he has not. he has gained SOME dems, repugs, teabaggers, independents and libertarians.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#14
lol. well, i disagree with your nope. meh.... we would need stats on the crowd and party
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#112
The fact is that the things Bernie talks about are American issues not liberal or conservative ones
Fearless
Aug 2015
#132
all the repugs know one woman and cares for one woman, and women are still being fucked by them.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#133
i agree mostly. but then i do not have issues with clinton and omalley so i can also recognize
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#136
Welcome to Du, why do you keep accusing posters of "wanting" him to run as an independent?
uppityperson
Aug 2015
#106
yes. in 1990 to win, he made a deal with dems for his vote. a deal is a deal, right?
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#15
first... ha ha ha. second. i do approve of sanders, as a senator. not a fan as a president.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#54
the funny you do not get is the hypocrisy of the sander supporter that i did not want to get into
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#62
Just yell socialist. Please provide example Bernie is not in line with democratic party
daybranch
Aug 2015
#87
This is Democratic Underground -a good assumption is that we are all Democrats.Are you a republican?
NRaleighLiberal
Aug 2015
#97
I love the argument that if Sanders beats, arguably, the strongest candidate..
frylock
Aug 2015
#125
We are all supporters of the Party. We are the UNDERGROUND of the party.
Alittleliberal
Aug 2015
#98
The country is not in the center on the issues. Issue poll after issue poll shows that.
Alittleliberal
Aug 2015
#103
I didn't realize I was attacking you personally. I'm very sorry you are so upset.
Warren Stupidity
Aug 2015
#139
Hell, I say something nasty about the Democratic party and the sell outs running it nearly every day
dflprincess
Aug 2015
#154
1990, he kept losing as independent, he made a deal with dem party. no viable opponent for his vote.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#13
i have not put in the time, nor would i, with this attack on iraq vote. i think
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#47
Are you trying to tell us that a sitting senator and former congressman and mayor is a POLITICIAN?!
Qutzupalotl
Aug 2015
#99
Commenting to link back here when I here more "Bernie is not a politician" posts. nt
stevenleser
Aug 2015
#104
i am not hunting it down, and ya... i hear it used from supporters. not my reality or expectation.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#37
and that would be the consistent pragmatic person i am. so when i hear people rant about compromise
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#43
i am clueless what answer you want me to give or what you are talking about.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#110
dems agreed to not put up a viable candidate and he agreed to vote with dems. just giving you
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#124
In 1990, he had alread won the Mayoral election as an Independent 4 times. Each time
Luminous Animal
Aug 2015
#94
yes. he lost many running for the socialist party. and lost the first run for congress
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#117
he is running as independent under dems as he ran in vermont. he is merely using the dems for votes
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#19
there are many things i respect about sanders. this is one of them. along with his consistent
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#111
so we throw all the congressional democrats under the bus, the prez, clinton and all her supporters.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#22
Those congressional Democrats have constituents he needs to win in those States.
BlueCaliDem
Aug 2015
#188
True. He doesn't risk losing any support because he never had any to begin with.
BlueCaliDem
Aug 2015
#203
we need to start local, and get in thru out our states, then.... we can start having more say
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#205
i read your discussion on endorsements elsewhere. i thought very interesting. just another piece
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#208
All of those items you've mentioned requires support in the Senate and in Congress as a whole.
BlueCaliDem
Aug 2015
#179
true, we havent really talked about this, but the other day, that is the answer i got. REVOLUTION
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#183
it isnt possible. sanders is hitting one group. white middle and working class. he is dependent on
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#186
And he and his supporters will realize, too late, that Repubs, Indies, and
BlueCaliDem
Aug 2015
#189
here in texas, one would have to change party and vote in just one primary. i do not know
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#191
They're not going to vote for him. They're just propping him up to make it appear as if
BlueCaliDem
Aug 2015
#193
i dont know the reason, intent, motive.... but i bottom line agree with you.
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#194
amazing that people would choose truth and representation, over obedience to a party
HFRN
Aug 2015
#39
when you create snaders as a savior, as you very well did in a post above, one might challenge
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#50
No it isn't. Please stop acting as if there is something unhealthy about Bernie's campaign.
Ken Burch
Aug 2015
#128
firstly, huh? unhealthy? ok. secondly, savior, why did you turn it to messiah. save = savior
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#130
personally i think it is atrocious that a party i have been a part of forever need this "save"
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#140
i didnt say it was about me as a person. a party i am proud of and have participated for a lifetime
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#142
ya. and yet sanders himself says he is not a democrat or liberal and his supporters argue
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#58
ok, so? he is a socialist. a democratic leaning socialist. he is an independent. your point?
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#109
+1. Lots of people have told me that they didn't leave the party; the party left them.
winter is coming
Aug 2015
#75
So eliminating the "Nader" possibility is good as long as it isn't Bernie doing it?
Fearless
Aug 2015
#70
He doesn't want to win the party. He wants to win the people. The human people, not
valerief
Aug 2015
#76
I don't love the Democratic Party, myself. It seems to have taken a hard right turn.
djean111
Aug 2015
#77
Bill Clinton spent his whole post-1980 career scorning nearly everything this party stands for-
Ken Burch
Aug 2015
#92
Not with the highest national polling sitting at 30% that dropped from 33"
FloridaBlues
Aug 2015
#108
You and Politocrap are confused about the difference between the Democratic Party and Democrats.
Agony
Aug 2015
#114
But he declined the Democratic nomination in those Senate runs. You neglected to mention that.
hrmjustin
Aug 2015
#161
First off, he should join the party officially if he desires the nomination.
Dawson Leery
Aug 2015
#169
The political parties are a bug not a feature for self governance and power centered on the people.
TheKentuckian
Aug 2015
#172
"preachy, screeching and liar". and you are talking about another duers posts?
seabeyond
Aug 2015
#180