2016 Postmortem

TheKentuckian

(26,314 posts)

172. The political parties are a bug not a feature for self governance and power centered on the people.

Wed Aug 19, 2015, 04:46 AM

Aug 2015

They destroy more democracy than they engender as far as I can tell and redistribute power to fewer rather than more.

It is what it is and you have to work with the system you get but there is little to lionize to the point of religious devotion at all particularly when we are a pretty damn conservative lot that benefit from comparison to the only other game in town being the a particularly delusional strand of political nihilists who are the patriarchal, Branch Levitican, white supremacist, eagerly and willfully stupid party.

At best, we are the catchall for pretty much everyone who can't stomach or isn't welcome in the other mess.

Awful lot into something that is the only sane - ish option that functionally has any hand in power that has the staggering entry requirement of checking a box on a form to be a member of.

It is a means to an end and a demonstrably raggedy one and little more. The ship is a joke we see the guys we were just running against flipping over and even often recruited and wooed, fuckers didn't have any Saul on the road to Damascus moments either but rather did or said something somewhere within sight of sane or decent and get cast out for a certified loon.

The only fuck I give about the party is policy and all the Turd Way garbage and the folks pushing it are much further away from my beliefs and values as the guy without the "good" letter by his name.

Give me a hundred Sanders over a hundred Klochbars and I'd say she is in the top third maybe or close, I won't even bother with discussing some of the more conservative and/or dubious folks so all it does for me is to make the whole concept to gather more rust.

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Can Bernie Sanders Win the Love of a Party He Scorns? [View all] sheshe2 Aug 2015 OP

apparently he can virtualobserver Aug 2015 #1

I'm not so sure how he'll accomplish that in New Hampshire. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #176

that will not be a problem virtualobserver Aug 2015 #178

He has to win the votes in order to get the delegates, not sure if he can get enough. Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #2

Well, he's already won the love of John Poet Aug 2015 #3

no. he has not. he has gained SOME dems, repugs, teabaggers, independents and libertarians. seabeyond Aug 2015 #14

Nope. Fearless Aug 2015 #68

lol. well, i disagree with your nope. meh.... we would need stats on the crowd and party seabeyond Aug 2015 #112

The fact is that the things Bernie talks about are American issues not liberal or conservative ones Fearless Aug 2015 #132

all the repugs know one woman and cares for one woman, and women are still being fucked by them. seabeyond Aug 2015 #133

You agree with his positions but not his methods? Fearless Aug 2015 #135

i agree mostly. but then i do not have issues with clinton and omalley so i can also recognize seabeyond Aug 2015 #136

Bernie actually didn't say anything you're claiming he did. Fearless Aug 2015 #137

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #84

Welcome to Du, why do you keep accusing posters of "wanting" him to run as an independent? uppityperson Aug 2015 #106

someone has been following me around while i was at the dentist. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #134

Scorns? He caucuses with the Democrats, sheshe2. Scuba Aug 2015 #4

yes but it makes for a great rhetorical flourish. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #6

yes. in 1990 to win, he made a deal with dems for his vote. a deal is a deal, right? seabeyond Aug 2015 #15

Please explain how voters have suffered as a result of this "deal". winter is coming Aug 2015 #51

first... ha ha ha. second. i do approve of sanders, as a senator. not a fan as a president. seabeyond Aug 2015 #54

You dismiss the most important point with fake laughter? winter is coming Aug 2015 #60

the funny you do not get is the hypocrisy of the sander supporter that i did not want to get into seabeyond Aug 2015 #62

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #91

This is wonky info, but it helps to explain the relationship. MADem Aug 2015 #167

answered by evidence: yes. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #5

Then why are you on this website? Indydem Aug 2015 #79

Just yell socialist. Please provide example Bernie is not in line with democratic party daybranch Aug 2015 #87

Oh please. Indydem Aug 2015 #90

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #95

This is Democratic Underground -a good assumption is that we are all Democrats.Are you a republican? NRaleighLiberal Aug 2015 #97

No. I just don't want him to run. Indydem Aug 2015 #100

I love the argument that if Sanders beats, arguably, the strongest candidate.. frylock Aug 2015 #125

He won't win unless he can take a sizeable chunk of Black and Latino BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #184

We are all supporters of the Party. We are the UNDERGROUND of the party. Alittleliberal Aug 2015 #98

So naive. Indydem Aug 2015 #101

The country is not in the center on the issues. Issue poll after issue poll shows that. Alittleliberal Aug 2015 #103

I didn't realize I was attacking you personally. I'm very sorry you are so upset. Warren Stupidity Aug 2015 #139

How is that possible??? Indydem Aug 2015 #145

Hell, I say something nasty about the Democratic party and the sell outs running it nearly every day dflprincess Aug 2015 #154

^^^ so much this ^^^ Hiraeth Aug 2015 #215

Does anyone read the friggin' "About" page? SMC22307 Aug 2015 #148

Oh. I didn't know that's all it took. Indydem Aug 2015 #170

Even Skinner has acknowledged that the fact that Sanders is a Democrat davidpdx Aug 2015 #175

Charlie Crist magically became a D, and many on DU supported him. SMC22307 Aug 2015 #201

Here we go again w the lame team sports mentality. DemByDefault Aug 2015 #7

yep again! daybranch Aug 2015 #89

Who knows? sibelian Aug 2015 #8

Scorns? Haven't seen that. TwilightGardener Aug 2015 #9

Like a jilted lover! frylock Aug 2015 #127

Hell hath no fury! SMC22307 Aug 2015 #147

I like to read the responses before I artislife Aug 2015 #10

Perhaps many in the Democratic Party iemitsu Aug 2015 #11

The vast majority of Blacks, Latinos, and Asians disagree with you. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #187

he wouldn't be allied with democrats in senate if he scorned the party JI7 Aug 2015 #12

1990, he kept losing as independent, he made a deal with dem party. no viable opponent for his vote. seabeyond Aug 2015 #13

Agree. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #16

Had a friend of mine who told me to 'dig deep' into his record ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #18

right out of the gate i was there with the man. the supporters on du, had me seabeyond Aug 2015 #21

Dem causes? DemByDefault Aug 2015 #46

i have not put in the time, nor would i, with this attack on iraq vote. i think seabeyond Aug 2015 #47

Message auto-removed Name removed Aug 2015 #107

this Vermonter has long been impressed with his record. so are the vast majority cali Aug 2015 #25

And again! ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #29

His "purity" MuseRider Aug 2015 #31

i love you. thank you. the purity is in the presentation he cannot be bought seabeyond Aug 2015 #33

So he is a politician and human MuseRider Aug 2015 #71

Are you trying to tell us that a sitting senator and former congressman and mayor is a POLITICIAN?! Qutzupalotl Aug 2015 #99

Commenting to link back here when I here more "Bernie is not a politician" posts. nt stevenleser Aug 2015 #104

Waste of a perfectly good sarcasm smilie. Qutzupalotl Aug 2015 #105

Purity tests suck. Period. anacodainfl Aug 2015 #34

i am not hunting it down, and ya... i hear it used from supporters. not my reality or expectation. seabeyond Aug 2015 #37

Sometimes a compromise is needed. anacodainfl Aug 2015 #40

and that would be the consistent pragmatic person i am. so when i hear people rant about compromise seabeyond Aug 2015 #43

Thanks for holding down the fort sheshe2 Aug 2015 #146

What did the Democratic Party of Vermont get out of this "deal"? virtualobserver Aug 2015 #52

he didnt split the vote and vermont elect a repug seabeyond Aug 2015 #56

what did Bernie "do" other than run for office? virtualobserver Aug 2015 #66

i am clueless what answer you want me to give or what you are talking about. seabeyond Aug 2015 #110

you said that Bernie "made a deal" with the Vermont Democratic Party virtualobserver Aug 2015 #120

dems agreed to not put up a viable candidate and he agreed to vote with dems. just giving you seabeyond Aug 2015 #124

he agreed to vote the way he would anyway virtualobserver Aug 2015 #126

of course not. seabeyond Aug 2015 #129

In 1990, he had alread won the Mayoral election as an Independent 4 times. Each time Luminous Animal Aug 2015 #94

yes. he lost many running for the socialist party. and lost the first run for congress seabeyond Aug 2015 #117

I don't know ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #17

he is running as independent under dems as he ran in vermont. he is merely using the dems for votes seabeyond Aug 2015 #19

Actually he is trying not to split the vote MuseRider Aug 2015 #72

there are many things i respect about sanders. this is one of them. along with his consistent seabeyond Aug 2015 #111

Sanders isn't looking for congressional Democrats to vote for him.. frylock Aug 2015 #20

so we throw all the congressional democrats under the bus, the prez, clinton and all her supporters. seabeyond Aug 2015 #22

Those congressional Democrats have constituents he needs to win in those States. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #188

Sanders is scorning nobody aside from those that put party over principle.. frylock Aug 2015 #190

Yes. You've already said that. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #192

Sanders doesn't risk losing the support of establishment Dems.. frylock Aug 2015 #195

True. He doesn't risk losing any support because he never had any to begin with. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #203

we need to start local, and get in thru out our states, then.... we can start having more say seabeyond Aug 2015 #205

Absolutely. Change starts from the bottom-up, not the top-down. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #207

i read your discussion on endorsements elsewhere. i thought very interesting. just another piece seabeyond Aug 2015 #208

Why should we care? And, this isn't a game. Dawgs Aug 2015 #23

That is a very good answer. MuseRider Aug 2015 #74

Well, sheshe2 Aug 2015 #150

LOL welcome home! MuseRider Aug 2015 #151

Thanks for the welcome home,MuseRider. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #197

Great post. n/t ms liberty Aug 2015 #144

I never said it was a game. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #149

All of those items you've mentioned requires support in the Senate and in Congress as a whole. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #179

we never hear about this one, i really want the answer. seabeyond Aug 2015 #181

I've received an answer ONCE... BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #182

true, we havent really talked about this, but the other day, that is the answer i got. REVOLUTION seabeyond Aug 2015 #183

The revolution Senator Sanders needs is impossible to achieve. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #185

it isnt possible. sanders is hitting one group. white middle and working class. he is dependent on seabeyond Aug 2015 #186

And he and his supporters will realize, too late, that Repubs, Indies, and BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #189

here in texas, one would have to change party and vote in just one primary. i do not know seabeyond Aug 2015 #191

They're not going to vote for him. They're just propping him up to make it appear as if BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #193

i dont know the reason, intent, motive.... but i bottom line agree with you. seabeyond Aug 2015 #194

When it comes to power, people tend to do the craziest things. BlueCaliDem Aug 2015 #202

First off, you don't register with ANY party in Vermont. phleshdef Aug 2015 #24

I have brought this up before and here is my issue with it... Peacetrain Aug 2015 #26

i have thought about this, also. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #28

And that's an excellent point ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #30

Thanks for your comments here, ism. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #153

Here's how you answer that question Jim Lane Aug 2015 #61

Thank you for your response Peacetrain. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #152

Bernie is going to save the democratic party jeepers Aug 2015 #27

That's an interesting way of looking at it ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #32

A four-way race would have been interesting John Poet Aug 2015 #36

THIS. bunnies Aug 2015 #38

he already has, so..............'yes' nt HFRN Aug 2015 #35

amazing that people would choose truth and representation, over obedience to a party HFRN Aug 2015 #39

Loyalty, admirable but blind. jeepers Aug 2015 #42

when you create snaders as a savior, as you very well did in a post above, one might challenge seabeyond Aug 2015 #50

No one called Bernie a "savior"-just a decent, honest progressive. Ken Burch Aug 2015 #93

27. Bernie is going to save the democratic party seabeyond Aug 2015 #113

Not really. Ken Burch Aug 2015 #118

Sanders is saving dem party from the outside = savior. Don't throw it on me seabeyond Aug 2015 #122

No it isn't. Please stop acting as if there is something unhealthy about Bernie's campaign. Ken Burch Aug 2015 #128

firstly, huh? unhealthy? ok. secondly, savior, why did you turn it to messiah. save = savior seabeyond Aug 2015 #130

Save does not equal "savior". Ken Burch Aug 2015 #138

personally i think it is atrocious that a party i have been a part of forever need this "save" seabeyond Aug 2015 #140

It's no comment on you as a person. Ken Burch Aug 2015 #141

i didnt say it was about me as a person. a party i am proud of and have participated for a lifetime seabeyond Aug 2015 #142

Thanks to democrats like the Clintons the party sucks now whatchamacallit Aug 2015 #41

The history of the DNC jeepers Aug 2015 #45

Highly doubtful. He's also the only candidate running on sufrommich Aug 2015 #44

Ouch ismnotwasm Aug 2015 #48

Good try! Comrade Grumpy Aug 2015 #55

It is a fact~ sheshe2 Aug 2015 #155

Is there a river in Egypt that's overflowing its banks? cherokeeprogressive Aug 2015 #49

The republicans are arguing that azmom Aug 2015 #53

ya. and yet sanders himself says he is not a democrat or liberal and his supporters argue seabeyond Aug 2015 #58

He says he is a democratic socialist azmom Aug 2015 #65

ok, so? he is a socialist. a democratic leaning socialist. he is an independent. your point? seabeyond Aug 2015 #109

+ 1000! sheshe2 Aug 2015 #156

When you consider the people fredamae Aug 2015 #57

+1. Lots of people have told me that they didn't leave the party; the party left them. winter is coming Aug 2015 #75

Mine too MuseRider Aug 2015 #78

Yep-I agree with you both fredamae Aug 2015 #88

Have contempt for the Democratic party is not a good way to win the nomination Gothmog Aug 2015 #59

If he scorned the Democratic party he would run as an independent. Jappleseed Aug 2015 #63

Party identification is Sanders's Benghazi Jim Lane Aug 2015 #64

politico is making up fake news now? Fearless Aug 2015 #67

the people he loves; the establishment and the structure he doesn't MisterP Aug 2015 #69

So eliminating the "Nader" possibility is good as long as it isn't Bernie doing it? Fearless Aug 2015 #70

Well, the man is right. Maedhros Aug 2015 #73

He doesn't want to win the party. He wants to win the people. The human people, not valerief Aug 2015 #76

Ummm sheshe2 Aug 2015 #158

Bernie wanting to win the "love of a party he scorns" is pretty strange. nt valerief Aug 2015 #198

I don't love the Democratic Party, myself. It seems to have taken a hard right turn. djean111 Aug 2015 #77

I agree with Bernie on every point in the OP and will vote for him. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #80

Depends.... Spitfire of ATJ Aug 2015 #81

Well Jeeeez People . . FairWinds Aug 2015 #82

Hate the comparison...the the reason Bernie and Trump are doing so well... libdem4life Aug 2015 #83

Well, I'm a zentrum Aug 2015 #85

+1 deutsey Aug 2015 #102

Excellent article. Thanks for posting. Koinos Aug 2015 #86

Bill Clinton spent his whole post-1980 career scorning nearly everything this party stands for- Ken Burch Aug 2015 #92

Bill Clinton moved our party forward and away from the constant losses ericson00 Aug 2015 #213

Uh, because that would require we be a Republican. libdem4life Aug 2015 #96

Not with the highest national polling sitting at 30% that dropped from 33" FloridaBlues Aug 2015 #108

You and Politocrap are confused about the difference between the Democratic Party and Democrats. Agony Aug 2015 #114

How does he scorn the democratic party? He caucuses with the democratic party. Autumn Aug 2015 #115

He Can Win the Love of Those Scorned by the Party demwing Aug 2015 #116

He will also ... TheFarS1de Aug 2015 #123

He already has PowerToThePeople Aug 2015 #119

Our nominee will have to do some party building. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #121

Justin. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #159

Good to see you She. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #160

I have missed you too, sweetie. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #162

I have the same avatar. What they did to Bravenak is a sin. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #163

Sorry. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #164

Coordinated attempt to silence criticism. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #165

Yes, justin. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #166

Just sad but expected. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #168

here's a better question elana i am Aug 2015 #131

I felt a bit like Bernie back in late 90's.. DCBob Aug 2015 #143

You mean a party that he has jfern Aug 2015 #157

But he declined the Democratic nomination in those Senate runs. You neglected to mention that. hrmjustin Aug 2015 #161

First off, he should join the party officially if he desires the nomination. Dawson Leery Aug 2015 #169

Not from me MaggieD Aug 2015 #171

By "diss" you mean "caucus with" and "support the party's platform." Yes, morningfog Aug 2015 #173

The political parties are a bug not a feature for self governance and power centered on the people. TheKentuckian Aug 2015 #172

If he gets the nomination..... Adrahil Aug 2015 #174

Another preachy OP by Sheshe davidpdx Aug 2015 #177

"preachy, screeching and liar". and you are talking about another duers posts? seabeyond Aug 2015 #180

That was a great read, sheshe KMOD Aug 2015 #196

Hey KMOD, thanks. sheshe2 Aug 2015 #199

He'll be the next President madokie Aug 2015 #200

Sure he can. It's not like Bernie is morally depraved or anything like that. Autumn Aug 2015 #204

or petty. sanders certainly is not petty. seabeyond Aug 2015 #206

No he is not, not in the least. He takes the high road and does things right Autumn Aug 2015 #209

i LOVED what he said to reporters yesterday about attacking clinton. my FAV seabeyond Aug 2015 #210

Bernie is no more his supporters than HIllary is her supporters Autumn Aug 2015 #212

you and i absolutely do not see this the same. nt seabeyond Aug 2015 #214

No we do not. n/t Autumn Aug 2015 #216

yawn Hiraeth Aug 2015 #211