2016 Postmortem

Babel_17

(5,400 posts)

187. Right back at you, lol

Wed Aug 26, 2015, 07:15 PM

Aug 2015

It's through the looking glass if you try to analyze the motives of those bored, jaded, and attention hungry, dilettantes. I'll offer one possibility though. All their talk is based on a unifying theme. (That) Sanders is weak, Clinton is weak, the Democratic Party is weak, and the electorate in general, and Democrats in particular, are malleable fools. We're weak, and they get to feel powerful by talking about their fantasies. If we pay them attention, that's the scoop on top their fantasy sundae.

Arguably, they win when you provide them any credibility as to providing an honest analysis. But anyway, I do appreciate you sharing your opinion based on your experience of participating in the system. You know a lot about the dirty tricks that were clandestinely used against us. But this batch of wannabe disruptors aren't in the same league, or playing with the right tools.

I don't plan on replying any more to this topic, but have a great evening!

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So you ask "why it matters" that Hillary regularly has fund-raising dinners for thousands of $$$? [View all] Bonobo Aug 2015 OP

Well said, Bonobo. JDPriestly Aug 2015 #1

I want to add this: Bonobo Aug 2015 #3

IMO, it's even worse than that. We were sold kabuki theater and most of us are still buying merrily Aug 2015 #48

Kabuki, exactly.....smoke and mirrors. haikugal Aug 2015 #105

It is going to be the #1 issue in this campaign, Citizens United and the corrupting effects of sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #97

Yes, and running on getting money out of politics with a fundraising goal of $2.5 billion merrily Aug 2015 #107

No it's not, and Biden, who may run also, more or less said that in the speech where he almost sabrina 1 Aug 2015 #132

Hillary is Hillary, kacekwl Aug 2015 #148

K&R! marym625 Aug 2015 #2

2 Words...Private Prisons billhicks76 Aug 2015 #166

And yet, Bernie's support is greatest among wealthy white males. DanTex Aug 2015 #4

Small contributions; under $200 to Bernie, make up over 80% of the total, small contributions Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #5

Yes, I know that Sanders can't raise enough money to run a competitive campaign. DanTex Aug 2015 #8

That's interesting that you should bring that up, despite Hillary having overwhelming financial Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #15

Bernie has no chance against the GOP. He doesn't have much of a chance in the primaries either, DanTex Aug 2015 #23

Bernie is drawing the largest crowds of any candidate, Democrat or Republican. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #26

Last time I think it was Ron Paul with the big crowds in the primaries. So there's that. DanTex Aug 2015 #29

And you can't be elected President if you're black...well scratch that one. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #30

Bernie is no Obama. For a lot of reasons. And being black is not even close to the electability DanTex Aug 2015 #34

Yeah, except he's not a socialist by ANY definition. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #38

Well... Garrett78 Aug 2015 #43

Except for the fact that he is on record saying "I am a socialist." DanTex Aug 2015 #44

Bit out of context there, Dan. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #46

I doubt many African Americans felt that being black wasn't a huge impediment in Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #39

Well, you'd have to ask them. But fortunately we have polls that can determine how poorly the DanTex Aug 2015 #42

That poll is flawed as socialist is the only political entry, it would be better Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #49

Yes, if you included "nazi" I'm sure it would do worse, but it's still very telling. DanTex Aug 2015 #58

Here is a more up to date poll of the what the American People believe. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #60

That cites the same Gallup poll saying that only 47% of Americans would vote for a socialist. DanTex Aug 2015 #62

That trend is going up and if you read the article, even just the part I posted Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #63

Sure, so maybe in 20 or 30 years a self-described socialist can be elected. DanTex Aug 2015 #65

It doesn't have to be made up exclusively of millienials for them and Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #68

You're right, Bernie is no Obama.... short circuit Aug 2015 #92

Sad but true. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #32

Comparing Sanders to Paul, Kucinich and Dean was played out weeks ago. merrily Aug 2015 #50

Try something new? Garrett78 Aug 2015 #73

Thank you for your concern about my disappointment. I'll be fine, though merrily Aug 2015 #81

Uh, what? Garrett78 Aug 2015 #83

Nothing like a Bernie supporter who keeps saying he can't win while the rest of us are merrily Aug 2015 #85

LOL. For your future reference... Bonobo Aug 2015 #94

You speak for everyone on the left, eh? Garrett78 Aug 2015 #98

A bit behind, aren't you Garrett? short circuit Aug 2015 #93

What am I behind on? Garrett78 Aug 2015 #99

We've seen a lot of 'concerned' Sanders 'supporters' on here already. cui bono Aug 2015 #149

Predicting that a candidate won't be the nominee... Garrett78 Aug 2015 #151

Lol! BeanMusical Aug 2015 #169

What's so funny? Garrett78 Aug 2015 #171

You're not genuflecting to Bernie significantly enough MaggieD Aug 2015 #192

Bernie's doing fine. short circuit Aug 2015 #90

He "can't raise enough money" but his "support is greatest among wealthy white males"? arcane1 Aug 2015 #152

And yet, he does not milk them for money or give them extra "ear-time" over glasses of bubbly. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #6

The old "Just this last time and THEN we'll fix it" approach. Gotcha. Bonobo Aug 2015 #7

Citizens United was decided during Obama's first term. DanTex Aug 2015 #11

Money in politics is not a new issue, Dan. The real problem has accelerated since 1992 when... Bonobo Aug 2015 #14

+1 Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #19

Citizens United is the most pressing issue right now, though. If we lose in 2016 DanTex Aug 2015 #21

My point is that, since 1992, politicians that reject public matching funds and say they will change Bonobo Aug 2015 #27

The first candidate to reject public funds in the GE was Obama. So there's exactly one example DanTex Aug 2015 #33

Yes, for the General election. But it has happened many, many times with primary candidates. Bonobo Aug 2015 #37

Neither metaphor works at all for primaries. In fact, they don't work for DanTex Aug 2015 #41

You want to talk reality? Okay... Bonobo Aug 2015 #45

Money is needed because a lot (most) people don't really pay much attention DanTex Aug 2015 #55

That 50/50 balance is an amazing bit of juggling. Bonobo Aug 2015 #57

Here come the conspiracy theories. DanTex Aug 2015 #61

Yes, conspiracy surely is the only way to explain that corporations donate to both parties Bonobo Aug 2015 #66

Umm, corporations don't donate to campaigns, that's illegal. DanTex Aug 2015 #67

Okay, Dan, you're right. Bonobo Aug 2015 #69

A loophole so big you can drive a semi through it. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #70

Not true. HappyPlace Aug 2015 #10

Yes it is. The numbers speak for themselves. DanTex Aug 2015 #12

I'm betting Hillary would NOT have voted to confirm Clarence Thomas. MADem Aug 2015 #31

But no actual rebuttal? Android3.14 Aug 2015 #96

And you are just the neo-liberal to drive that wedge home, right dan? MoveIt Aug 2015 #101

It's ironic that CU may be used to buy the WH for Clinton. What's not ironic is how rhett o rick Aug 2015 #135

So why aren't the banksters giving him money? n/t eridani Aug 2015 #143

bullshit. marym625 Aug 2015 #176

She ONLY rubs elbows with the rich? murielm99 Aug 2015 #9

Not only that, but the anti-Hillary people even attack her for meeting with small groups DanTex Aug 2015 #13

There it is again! Bonobo Aug 2015 #16

You are the one who posted it. murielm99 Aug 2015 #20

Nani? nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #28

SAMLL Groups is the key word, she speaks to SMALL hand picked groups of people Perry Smith Aug 2015 #17

Yeah, she hand-picked all those murielm99 Aug 2015 #22

Yep. beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #25

Follow the money? Yeah--the ones without money WILL LOSE. MADem Aug 2015 #35

Well, I'll take the candidate that takes the personal approach over the megachurch any day. Amimnoch Aug 2015 #47

New low right here beerandjesus Aug 2015 #87

There is no limit to the lowness MoveIt Aug 2015 #103

lower than "Roman Empire, toga-wearing elitist" above a photo of Hillary?? Amimnoch Aug 2015 #124

Yep, way lower. Might as well call him a Nazi along with that clown at the National Review. beerandjesus Aug 2015 #138

bwhahahaha!! frylock Aug 2015 #119

I have been to 5 Bernie events and he has NEVER asked ANYONE Vincardog Aug 2015 #122

This is slander? Amimnoch Aug 2015 #123

One is true one is not. Don't lie. Vincardog Aug 2015 #125

True, Hillary is not Roman, and as far as I know has never worn a toga. Amimnoch Aug 2015 #126

Your point is that Bernie fills statiums with his message; and that is bad how? Vincardog Aug 2015 #127

Yep, it's slander. beerandjesus Aug 2015 #139

And what about the MILLIONS in union money? SonderWoman Aug 2015 #89

yeah, those damn workers, why should they have a voice in the election? virtualobserver Aug 2015 #111

This. Right here. Hell yeah! Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #18

We live in a corporatocracy and have for a long time. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #24

"Confirmation" is likely to destroy Biden, if he decides to run. MADem Aug 2015 #36

And Clinton is equally undesirable if you're a genuine progressive. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #40

I don't think Hillary Clinton was cheering Biden on re: the Thomas hearings. MADem Aug 2015 #51

Rhetoric is not policy. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #59

What does that even mean? It's just not true, either. MADem Aug 2015 #77

Just because... Garrett78 Aug 2015 #79

Sounds like that old laxative commercial: "Are three enough? Are six too many?" MADem Aug 2015 #80

That's a cop-out. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #82

It's not a cop-out. Where you stand depends on where you sit. nt MADem Aug 2015 #91

It's a cop-out... Garrett78 Aug 2015 #100

And much of that is subjective. nt MADem Aug 2015 #147

Really? Garrett78 Aug 2015 #150

It depends on how you weigh the issues. It's not a cop out, sorry if you don't like that. nt MADem Aug 2015 #193

Not sure why you bother. You know what they're going to say. They've been saying the same things merrily Aug 2015 #52

Honestly, there's way too much attention to "bashing Hillary" and too little on the job experience. Sancho Aug 2015 #53

No, the job requires judgement. jeff47 Aug 2015 #133

Not really... Sancho Aug 2015 #136

I don't need an intermediary and their scoring model in order to count. jeff47 Aug 2015 #137

If you looked at the link, there's a complete neutral record.... Sancho Aug 2015 #141

And if you read what I posted, you'd find I think their model is moronic. jeff47 Aug 2015 #144

No, I looked at what bills he sponsored and passed.... Sancho Aug 2015 #173

Well put davidpdx Aug 2015 #54

No Citizen Need Settle For The Lesser Of Two Corporate Evils - Go Bernie Go cantbeserious Aug 2015 #56

HRC's donors pay $$$ to get justices friendly to Citizens United. Divernan Aug 2015 #64

Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Stephen Breyer. Amimnoch Aug 2015 #72

+20 years & 10's of millions of $$$ ago.PRE-Citizens United bribery time. Divernan Aug 2015 #88

^^^^^^^^^^BINGO ^^^^^^^^^^ Blus4u Aug 2015 #76

We've tried the lesser-of-evils approach over and over and over. I am over it. 100% over it. GoneFishin Aug 2015 #71

In between elections. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #75

Well I am voting for Bernie. To each his own. GoneFishin Aug 2015 #110

As well you should. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #174

K&R Scuba Aug 2015 #74

So you ask "why it matters" that Warren regularly has fund-raising dinners for thousands of $$$? brooklynite Aug 2015 #78

It's not a matter of stereotypes, it is a matter of disconnect. The wealthy cannot understand RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #86

You mean wealthy people like FDR? brooklynite Aug 2015 #95

Yes, obviously I also mean FDR. RadiationTherapy Aug 2015 #106

If Sanders wins the primary, he automatically has a great chance to win the general election Babel_17 Aug 2015 #84

Like Goldwater beating the establishment Republicans in 1964? brooklynite Aug 2015 #102

Just like that, except the opposite Babel_17 Aug 2015 #104

George McGovern proved this concept works in 1972 Gothmog Aug 2015 #113

With one difference Genghis Khan Aug 2015 #121

So twitter and social media are magic and eliminates the need for money in campaigns Gothmog Aug 2015 #129

Social media helped immensely in getting Pres. Obama elected. Duppers Aug 2015 #163

President Obama also had a well funded campaign and used a super pac Gothmog Aug 2015 #172

McGovern was running against a sitting President (generally results in failure) Babel_17 Aug 2015 #134

Does Jimmy Carter know this when he defeated Ford or when he lost to Reagan? Gothmog Aug 2015 #153

Ford was never elected President (or even VP*), and I said "generally" Babel_17 Aug 2015 #156

I worked in and voted for Carter in that election Gothmog Aug 2015 #158

Only a few years younger than you Babel_17 Aug 2015 #175

Did you know that the GOP picked McGovern to be their opponent? Gothmog Aug 2015 #177

The GOP is looking forward to engaging with Clinton, they fear Sanders popularity Babel_17 Aug 2015 #179

The GOP is contributing to Sanders because they are not afraid of him Gothmog Aug 2015 #180

Young (or child like) Conservatives enjoying some snark Babel_17 Aug 2015 #183

Denial is not just a river in Africa Gothmog Aug 2015 #186

Right back at you, lol Babel_17 Aug 2015 #187

In the real world, money matters in political campaigns Gothmog Aug 2015 #108

Votes ar what is counted. Votes. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #109

Have you ever actually worked in a real campaign? Gothmog Aug 2015 #112

Yeah. I have. Bonobo Aug 2015 #114

It is start that a Sanders supporter will abandon the magical thinking that money is not necessary Gothmog Aug 2015 #118

Gothmog, as a fellow Tolkien freak, I will try to be kind to you and not say what I really think. Bonobo Aug 2015 #155

Magical thinking is all that you and the Sanders supports can point to Gothmog Aug 2015 #182

One dollar, one vote? frylock Aug 2015 #120

Looks like some folks have a big sad about you peeing in the royal caviar. Zorra Aug 2015 #115

Yeah, LOL, it seems that way. Bonobo Aug 2015 #116

Great quote. Duppers Aug 2015 #164

Why? fadedrose Aug 2015 #117

Jury results -- Nuclear Unicorn Aug 2015 #128

... Zorra Aug 2015 #130

About the fundraisers --- Avalux Aug 2015 #131

Yes but I believe that does include dessert...so there's that. n/t Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #146

Thats what it comes down to. Selling access. Ain't no way to disguise the stench of that. nt Bonobo Aug 2015 #161

Okay. Lose to Republicans. n/t ellisonz Aug 2015 #140

K&R MoveIt Aug 2015 #142

Bernie supported by the little people. Hillary supported by... L0oniX Aug 2015 #145

Such a simple thing and yet so very, very important. Bonobo Aug 2015 #154

Loonix Indepatriot Aug 2015 #167

the kissenger shit enough should DQ her from thinking of running.. but.. this is 'merka dionysus Aug 2015 #189

Until the electoral system has a major sweeping overhaul Blue_Tires Aug 2015 #157

It's not going to happen until the addiction is broken. Bonobo Aug 2015 #159

How will the addiction be broken if Sanders is not viable in the general election Gothmog Aug 2015 #181

And the fur is flying in this thread! Old Crow Aug 2015 #160

Excellent post! Duppers Aug 2015 #162

Rockin' Post Bonobo! Indepatriot Aug 2015 #165

Yup. SoapBox Aug 2015 #168

Huge Kick and R! BeanMusical Aug 2015 #170

Bravo! hifiguy Aug 2015 #178

The premise of this thread is silly unless someone can explain how Sanders is viable Gothmog Aug 2015 #184

Lessig is all over the map, and now thinking of running against Sanders and Clinton Babel_17 Aug 2015 #188

Do you get a personal audience with Bernie if you send $5? MaggieD Aug 2015 #185

What kind of favors do you owe when you're paid $200,000 to speak at Goldman Sachs? L0oniX Aug 2015 #190

Do I get a private audience with Bernie for 5 bucks or not? MaggieD Aug 2015 #191

Amen. mmonk Aug 2015 #194