Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

2016 Postmortem

In reply to the discussion: Democrats vs. Socialists [View all]

The Velveteen Ocelot

(130,540 posts)
6. Bernie Sanders is a proponent of Scandinavian-style democratic "socialism"
Sun Aug 30, 2015, 01:19 AM
Aug 2015

which is nothing like the classic soviet-style socialism you seem to think, very incorrectly, that he is promoting. The Scandinavian countries are parliamentary democracies (actually, they are constitutional monarchies, though their monarchs are essentially figureheads with mainly ceremonial functions) in which people own property and businesses are privately owned. Their governments do not own or control the means of production or distribution of much of anything; with a few exceptions such as some airlines the governments do not own or operate businesses. The "socialist" aspects of these countries refer to the fact that there is a very substantial social safety net by means of which people receive free or low-cost health care, college education, child care and pensions. These services are not regarded as handouts since they are available to everyone. People don't go hungry because they can't find jobs and they don't die because they can't afford medical care. Since these countries are democracies, it would seem that these are things that the people want and voted for through their representatives in their parliaments. They also regularly make the lists of the happiest countries in the world.

With respect to taxes: the top marginal tax rate during the Eisenhower administration was 90%, and there was no outflow of businesses to other countries. On the contrary, this was one of the most prosperous, high-growth periods in our history.

Bernie's "socialism" is exactly what FDR's New Deal exemplified. He is trying to reintroduce the principles of the New Deal that the Democratic Party used to believe in before it was taken over by the neoliberals and Third Wayers and Wall Street cronies like Tim Geithner. Bernie is the real Democrat.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Democrats vs. Socialists [View all] ericson00 Aug 2015 OP
OK. I'll say it. Wilms Aug 2015 #1
Well, your "good summary" has convinced me. Avalux Aug 2015 #2
+1 daleanime Aug 2015 #4
Since words fail me, I'll just second what you said Hydra Aug 2015 #11
+1 Ed Suspicious Aug 2015 #16
+2 haikugal Aug 2015 #49
Yep. cyberswede Aug 2015 #61
No popcorn, I'll say this is what makes a Democracy Iliyah Aug 2015 #3
I know, its scary. It seems that none of them know what the situation was from 1968-1988; ericson00 Aug 2015 #5
HRC will become President of the USA, I have no doubt on that. Iliyah Aug 2015 #8
I remember it well, and it was not good still_one Aug 2015 #22
Bernie Sanders is a proponent of Scandinavian-style democratic "socialism" The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2015 #6
no one said anything about Soviet-style socialism, ericson00 Aug 2015 #12
I'm not saying there is no poverty at all in Scandinavia. The Velveteen Ocelot Aug 2015 #13
Well done. Interestingly, your articulate reply to a deeply flawed OP PatrickforO Aug 2015 #28
Some Democrats believe what you list. The emphasis being on "some". Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #7
"Some" but the Democratic Party has opinons and suggestions and issues Iliyah Aug 2015 #14
at the very least, its Chavismo ericson00 Aug 2015 #15
If you express an opinion be its not in favor of others, and then you are ridiculed Iliyah Aug 2015 #17
I don't hate Clinton, I just don't think she's fit to be president. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #59
If it's Democratic Capitalism, I'll pass. Tierra_y_Libertad Aug 2015 #19
I think the majority of Dems, at least the base, is much closer to Bernie than the establishment PatrickforO Aug 2015 #32
What planet did you just come in from? Paka Aug 2015 #9
Planet not to be named. PowerToThePeople Aug 2015 #23
It was a comet that had a tail n/t Ichingcarpenter Aug 2015 #25
I've been seeing 'n/t' a lot at the end of posts. What does n/t mean? PatrickforO Aug 2015 #33
n/t = no text below the title line. Not sure about the comet! n/t ms liberty Aug 2015 #43
Lol! I love this part neverforget Aug 2015 #10
You know, nationalizing the Fed wouldn't be too bad, though... PatrickforO Aug 2015 #29
I'm a democratic socialist. lovemydog Aug 2015 #18
Well THAT certainly is a fairer way to describe it than the caricature above. No doubt there. PatrickforO Aug 2015 #30
Roy Zimmerman tells us why we've been ruined by socialism... beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #20
That was good. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #21
Thanks! beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #24
I will have to check that one out as well. Uncle Joe Aug 2015 #26
Of course, we already have a single payer health care system in the US. Garrett78 Aug 2015 #27
LOL PatrickforO Aug 2015 #31
Medicare doesn't currently extend to 300 million people ericson00 Aug 2015 #37
You say "even Obama"... Garrett78 Aug 2015 #39
your ignorance is almost as impressive as your sexism cali Aug 2015 #34
OMG the socialist and commies are coming Truprogressive85 Aug 2015 #35
when did I ever deny the existence of racism? ericson00 Aug 2015 #38
Or the top marginal tax rate of 91%... Garrett78 Aug 2015 #41
Is this from The Onion? Andy Borowitz - is that you? djean111 Aug 2015 #36
"I'm going to vote for the Democrat, who is Hillary Clinton" Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #40
I didn't say she was the only one ericson00 Aug 2015 #42
Then you should have called her "a Democrat", instead of "THE Democrat". Warren DeMontague Aug 2015 #44
Well, there's your problem.... ms liberty Aug 2015 #46
***This*** beam me up scottie Aug 2015 #47
Chaffee has been a Democrat for 27 months, Bernie co-founded the largest Democratic Caucus in Bluenorthwest Aug 2015 #50
Now, there is a sales pitch! (sarcasm, of course) rogerashton Aug 2015 #45
The "big tent" only expands to the right. TheKentuckian Aug 2015 #48
Testify! And if I might add... MannyGoldstein Aug 2015 #51
I am not sold on the Scandinavian method, I am not sold on the socialist method. Just as some Thinkingabout Aug 2015 #52
I am not a fan of labels. DemocratSinceBirth Aug 2015 #53
Identity politics ftw JackInGreen Aug 2015 #54
No point in arguing with obvious trollbait. last1standing Aug 2015 #55
LMAO yup, this is red baiting 101 nadinbrzezinski Aug 2015 #56
Well.... 2 points Armstead Aug 2015 #57
Okay...I haven't read all the comments, but I'm gonna get into the weeds here... ion_theory Aug 2015 #58
Oy veh. nt cyberswede Aug 2015 #60
TOPS Ron Green Aug 2015 #62
The Legacy of McCarthyism AOR Aug 2015 #63
Progressive Red-Baiting AOR Aug 2015 #64
Misrepresenting the Left: We Are Not Liberals AOR Aug 2015 #65
The Function of the Democratic Party in the Political System AOR Aug 2015 #66
Why Socialism ? AOR Aug 2015 #67
That should be a start on helping you on your journey ericson... AOR Aug 2015 #68
Happy reading, ericson! Oilwellian Aug 2015 #69
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»Democrats vs. Socialists»Reply #6