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2016 Postmortem

In reply to the discussion: Just polled this forum! [View all]
 

Wild_Dog

(57 posts)
29. We should ignore him as if he wasn't even in the room.
Sun Jul 15, 2012, 11:16 AM
Jul 2012
"The Obama campaign is kicking Romney's ass right now, and we're enjoying it." JoePhilly

Trust me, while we are patting ourselves on the back they are working on new framing.
Please don't argue with me who is a poor spokesman for the real expert Lakoff, I've given several references.

Here is a good example of Lakoff's thinking;

George Lakoff: All politics is moral at the base. Any political leader who gives you some sort of prescription of what to do does it because he says it’s right, not because he says it’s wrong or doesn’t matter. Everybody thinks it’s right.

But there are two different ideas of what right is. This is very important. Let me give you a short version of this that applies mostly to economics. The basic idea behind democracy in America is the idea that citizens care about each other; that they act socially as well as individually to cash out that care, and they try to do as well as they can in doing that both for themselves and for others. They do this by having the government create what we call “the public.” The public provision of things; things for everybody – roads, bridges, sewers, public education and public health, like the Centers for Disease Control. Clean air, clean water, the provision of energy, communications and so on. These are all the sorts of things that you can’t live a life without. A private life or a private enterprise. Every business depends on all of these things. The private depends on the public. That is a moral issue. That is how we care about each other.

Conservatives have a very different view of democracy, which follows their moral system. Their moral system is more complex than ours is. The basic idea in terms of economics is that democracy gives people the liberty to seek their self interest and their own well-being without worrying or being responsible for the well-being or interest of anybody else. Therefore they say everybody has individual responsibility, not social responsibility, therefore you’re on your own. If you make it that’s wonderful. That’s what the market is about. If you don’t make it, that’s your problem.

Those are two opposite views of a moral system applied to economics. Those are straightforward, everyday examples. They apply very interestingly in the case of privatization. The right says, 'privatize as much as possible. Get rid of as much of the public as you possibly can. Make everything private if possible.' The other side says no. The public requires hiring private contractors all the time -- to build roads or public buildings -- but there’s a limit. And the limit has to do with morality. When it comes to moral issues like education, health or the environment -- which has everything to do with morality and people caring about each other -- there you don’t put that in private hands for private profit. That is the line that needs to be drawn.

Those are truths that are deeply embedded in the point of view of a progressive morality. There are other truths that are from conservative morality. They’re opposites, and because they’re opposites you’re going to get conflict. One thing that’s important to understand is that most people have a little of both. Most people are conservative about some things and progressive about others. Some people are almost all progressive and some are almost all conservative.

But there are a lot of people who are mixed and they’re called moderates or centrists, though there is no explicit ideology of the moderation. There’s no ideology of the independent or the swing voter. What you have are two different moral systems in the same brain which inhibit each other. One is active and the other is inactive. Activity in one turns off the other. The more one is active the stronger it gets and the weaker the other one gets.

What’s happened in this country is that language activates that moral system. The moral system is realized in frames. Frames are conceptual structures that we use to think in context. Language is defined in terms of those frames. When you use language that is conservative it’ll activate conservative frames which in turn activates conservative moral systems and strengthens those systems in people’s brains. That’s been happening for the past three decades. Conservatives have a remarkable communication system and a language system that they’ve constructed. They get out there and use their language and frames and repeat them over and over. The more they repeat it the greater their effect on people’s brains. Democrats don’t do that and as a result the conservatives have framed almost every issue.

What The Little Blue Book does is show how to deal with that. How to understand your own moral frames and how to see deep truths that conservative frames hide. For example: that the private depends on the public.

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Just polled this forum! [View all] Wild_Dog Jul 2012 OP
You seem to have something on your mind... rfranklin Jul 2012 #1
George Lakoff explains here; Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #6
Do you think the ReThugs aren't talking a whole lot about Obama? Chemisse Jul 2012 #2
Don't care what they are doing if it is wrong headed! Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #7
Hay! I just needed to cuss and spit on the ground, so I needed to mention Romney. n/t wandy Jul 2012 #3
What does that have to do with the price of eggs? DocMac Jul 2012 #4
More here. Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #8
Thanks for the link. DocMac Jul 2012 #11
"You're polling words, not language." Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #18
Huh? Wait Wut Jul 2012 #5
We need to speak Democratic principles not repeat Republican principles Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #9
We're Democrats here. Wait Wut Jul 2012 #12
Lakoff is addressing the middle which is who we need to reach with our thinking/principles Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #15
welcome to DU. yes ... we discuss the opposition. it is a political site scheming daemons Jul 2012 #10
Let's rephrase that a little Rosanna Lopez Jul 2012 #14
"We agree with SOME of Obama's policies, but not all." Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #16
If you understand Lakoff then don't listen to Lakoff or me because I'm "Suspect". Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #17
More on Lakoff's thinking. Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #13
Here is what progressives can learn from right-wing messaging. Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #19
Still the same all we do is talk about Romney? Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #20
I still argue that we give voice to Mitt Romney/Republican arguments instead of framing the Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #21
Your logic is flawed Marzupialis Jul 2012 #22
Marzupialis, I'm making Lakoff's argument, a well respected thinker in Democratic messaging here; Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #25
"Lakoff" didn't use your logic Marzupialis Jul 2012 #30
That is not my logic; mine is we are helping Republicans' Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #38
It seems to me that John Kerry and Jimmy Carter had lots of problems mucifer Jul 2012 #23
The Obama campaign is kicking Romney's ass right now, and we're enjoying it. JoePhilly Jul 2012 #24
We should ignore him as if he wasn't even in the room. Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #29
Your point?????????????????? appleannie1 Jul 2012 #26
My point is Lakoff's point; do you understand Lakoff????????? Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #31
That's the kind of campaign this is MannyGoldstein Jul 2012 #27
Sniff Sniff ,I smell something. orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #28
I am sick and tired of losing to Republicans. Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #33
NEWSFLASH !!! JUST IN orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #34
I addressed your 1st response directly and you come back with this; that has nothing to do with now? Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #36
I'm Here where I've been for 9 yrs orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #40
is this also you? maddezmom Jul 2012 #41
Astute as always ,maddezmom orpupilofnature57 Jul 2012 #42
maybe just his partner maddezmom Jul 2012 #43
I know too much about emilyg Jul 2012 #32
Well said; could not have said it better! Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #35
nobody is stopping you from posting the types of threads you want WI_DEM Jul 2012 #37
WI_DEM let me assume Wisconsin Democrat, if correct then engage you in a Gov Walker discussion? Wild_Dog Jul 2012 #39
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