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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Just polled this forum! [View all]Wild_Dog
(57 posts)29. We should ignore him as if he wasn't even in the room.
"The Obama campaign is kicking Romney's ass right now, and we're enjoying it." JoePhilly
Trust me, while we are patting ourselves on the back they are working on new framing.
Please don't argue with me who is a poor spokesman for the real expert Lakoff, I've given several references.
Here is a good example of Lakoff's thinking;
George Lakoff: All politics is moral at the base. Any political leader who gives you some sort of prescription of what to do does it because he says its right, not because he says its wrong or doesnt matter. Everybody thinks its right.
But there are two different ideas of what right is. This is very important. Let me give you a short version of this that applies mostly to economics. The basic idea behind democracy in America is the idea that citizens care about each other; that they act socially as well as individually to cash out that care, and they try to do as well as they can in doing that both for themselves and for others. They do this by having the government create what we call the public. The public provision of things; things for everybody roads, bridges, sewers, public education and public health, like the Centers for Disease Control. Clean air, clean water, the provision of energy, communications and so on. These are all the sorts of things that you cant live a life without. A private life or a private enterprise. Every business depends on all of these things. The private depends on the public. That is a moral issue. That is how we care about each other.
Conservatives have a very different view of democracy, which follows their moral system. Their moral system is more complex than ours is. The basic idea in terms of economics is that democracy gives people the liberty to seek their self interest and their own well-being without worrying or being responsible for the well-being or interest of anybody else. Therefore they say everybody has individual responsibility, not social responsibility, therefore youre on your own. If you make it thats wonderful. Thats what the market is about. If you dont make it, thats your problem.
Those are two opposite views of a moral system applied to economics. Those are straightforward, everyday examples. They apply very interestingly in the case of privatization. The right says, 'privatize as much as possible. Get rid of as much of the public as you possibly can. Make everything private if possible.' The other side says no. The public requires hiring private contractors all the time -- to build roads or public buildings -- but theres a limit. And the limit has to do with morality. When it comes to moral issues like education, health or the environment -- which has everything to do with morality and people caring about each other -- there you dont put that in private hands for private profit. That is the line that needs to be drawn.
Those are truths that are deeply embedded in the point of view of a progressive morality. There are other truths that are from conservative morality. Theyre opposites, and because theyre opposites youre going to get conflict. One thing thats important to understand is that most people have a little of both. Most people are conservative about some things and progressive about others. Some people are almost all progressive and some are almost all conservative.
But there are a lot of people who are mixed and theyre called moderates or centrists, though there is no explicit ideology of the moderation. Theres no ideology of the independent or the swing voter. What you have are two different moral systems in the same brain which inhibit each other. One is active and the other is inactive. Activity in one turns off the other. The more one is active the stronger it gets and the weaker the other one gets.
Whats happened in this country is that language activates that moral system. The moral system is realized in frames. Frames are conceptual structures that we use to think in context. Language is defined in terms of those frames. When you use language that is conservative itll activate conservative frames which in turn activates conservative moral systems and strengthens those systems in peoples brains. Thats been happening for the past three decades. Conservatives have a remarkable communication system and a language system that theyve constructed. They get out there and use their language and frames and repeat them over and over. The more they repeat it the greater their effect on peoples brains. Democrats dont do that and as a result the conservatives have framed almost every issue.
What The Little Blue Book does is show how to deal with that. How to understand your own moral frames and how to see deep truths that conservative frames hide. For example: that the private depends on the public.
Trust me, while we are patting ourselves on the back they are working on new framing.
Please don't argue with me who is a poor spokesman for the real expert Lakoff, I've given several references.
Here is a good example of Lakoff's thinking;
George Lakoff: All politics is moral at the base. Any political leader who gives you some sort of prescription of what to do does it because he says its right, not because he says its wrong or doesnt matter. Everybody thinks its right.
But there are two different ideas of what right is. This is very important. Let me give you a short version of this that applies mostly to economics. The basic idea behind democracy in America is the idea that citizens care about each other; that they act socially as well as individually to cash out that care, and they try to do as well as they can in doing that both for themselves and for others. They do this by having the government create what we call the public. The public provision of things; things for everybody roads, bridges, sewers, public education and public health, like the Centers for Disease Control. Clean air, clean water, the provision of energy, communications and so on. These are all the sorts of things that you cant live a life without. A private life or a private enterprise. Every business depends on all of these things. The private depends on the public. That is a moral issue. That is how we care about each other.
Conservatives have a very different view of democracy, which follows their moral system. Their moral system is more complex than ours is. The basic idea in terms of economics is that democracy gives people the liberty to seek their self interest and their own well-being without worrying or being responsible for the well-being or interest of anybody else. Therefore they say everybody has individual responsibility, not social responsibility, therefore youre on your own. If you make it thats wonderful. Thats what the market is about. If you dont make it, thats your problem.
Those are two opposite views of a moral system applied to economics. Those are straightforward, everyday examples. They apply very interestingly in the case of privatization. The right says, 'privatize as much as possible. Get rid of as much of the public as you possibly can. Make everything private if possible.' The other side says no. The public requires hiring private contractors all the time -- to build roads or public buildings -- but theres a limit. And the limit has to do with morality. When it comes to moral issues like education, health or the environment -- which has everything to do with morality and people caring about each other -- there you dont put that in private hands for private profit. That is the line that needs to be drawn.
Those are truths that are deeply embedded in the point of view of a progressive morality. There are other truths that are from conservative morality. Theyre opposites, and because theyre opposites youre going to get conflict. One thing thats important to understand is that most people have a little of both. Most people are conservative about some things and progressive about others. Some people are almost all progressive and some are almost all conservative.
But there are a lot of people who are mixed and theyre called moderates or centrists, though there is no explicit ideology of the moderation. Theres no ideology of the independent or the swing voter. What you have are two different moral systems in the same brain which inhibit each other. One is active and the other is inactive. Activity in one turns off the other. The more one is active the stronger it gets and the weaker the other one gets.
Whats happened in this country is that language activates that moral system. The moral system is realized in frames. Frames are conceptual structures that we use to think in context. Language is defined in terms of those frames. When you use language that is conservative itll activate conservative frames which in turn activates conservative moral systems and strengthens those systems in peoples brains. Thats been happening for the past three decades. Conservatives have a remarkable communication system and a language system that theyve constructed. They get out there and use their language and frames and repeat them over and over. The more they repeat it the greater their effect on peoples brains. Democrats dont do that and as a result the conservatives have framed almost every issue.
What The Little Blue Book does is show how to deal with that. How to understand your own moral frames and how to see deep truths that conservative frames hide. For example: that the private depends on the public.
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Hay! I just needed to cuss and spit on the ground, so I needed to mention Romney. n/t
wandy
Jul 2012
#3
Lakoff is addressing the middle which is who we need to reach with our thinking/principles
Wild_Dog
Jul 2012
#15
welcome to DU. yes ... we discuss the opposition. it is a political site
scheming daemons
Jul 2012
#10
If you understand Lakoff then don't listen to Lakoff or me because I'm "Suspect".
Wild_Dog
Jul 2012
#17
I still argue that we give voice to Mitt Romney/Republican arguments instead of framing the
Wild_Dog
Jul 2012
#21
Marzupialis, I'm making Lakoff's argument, a well respected thinker in Democratic messaging here;
Wild_Dog
Jul 2012
#25