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(725 posts)
19. Once again I bail out of Hillary's boat on the way to the primaries.
Thu Sep 10, 2015, 12:34 PM
Sep 2015

And for the same reason - except MORE SO.

I changed my mind about Hillary the first time because I decided she was more hawkish than Obama. I was among that huge group of people with a belly full of Bush and war. Obama hasn't done everything to my liking but he's my best President in my adult 72 years. It kind of took me back when he appointed her secretary of state, but we still managed (in spite of John McCain and other war mongers) to stay out of another whole scale war. I voted for him twice and am proud of those votes.

My real favorite in this race is Bernie, but I worried he could pull it off because of lacking minority support - if I had to, I was prepared to vote for Hillary. But not after her Iran speech. It showed who she really is and I cannot vote for a neocon. I have been watching and reading, trying to figure out where Hillary stood since I just learned a few months ago that Victoria Nuland Kagan was on her staff at the State Department. Not only that, Nuland has also been promoted to Secretary of State for European affairs.

Does everyone know who Victoria Nuland is? I have had to dig to find out.

This is MRS. PNAC. She is the wife of Robert Kagan, co-founder of Project for the New American Century, which group helped hustle us into the Iraq war. (Remember their famous line, "To get the support we would need would require an event like another Pearl Harbor". Well, somebody worked that out for them, didn't they?)

Nuland is currently handling all things Ukraine for the State Department and doing all she can to keep our relationship with Russia f'd up. There's any number of articles worth your time to get a sense of who Hillary is (and has been) hanging with - just GOOGLE Nuland's name.


Exclusive: Victoria Nuland and Robert Kagan have a great mom-and-pop business going. From the State Department, she generates wars and – from op-ed pages – he demands Congress buy more weapons. There’s a pay-off, too, as grateful military contractors kick in money to think tanks where other Kagans work, writes Robert Parry.
Neoconservative pundit Robert Kagan and his wife, Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland, run a remarkable family business: she has sparked a hot war in Ukraine and helped launch Cold War II with Russia – and he steps in to demand that Congress jack up military spending so America can meet these new security threats.
This extraordinary husband-and-wife duo makes quite a one-two punch for the Military-Industrial Complex, an inside-outside team that creates the need for more military spending, applies political pressure to ensure higher appropriations, and watches as thankful weapons manufacturers lavish grants on like-minded hawkish Washington think tanks.

Makes sense since HRC is the leading neocon in the Democratic Party. leveymg Sep 2015 #1
Appears that way...see Post #14 below..n/t KoKo Sep 2015 #17
A number of career foreign policy aparachiks are committed neocons. They serve GOP and Dems alike, leveymg Sep 2015 #35
Another big reason for us to do whatever it takes to prevent Clinton from Zorra Sep 2015 #2
Birds of a feather. eom NorthCarolina Sep 2015 #3
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2015 #4
I think the Iraq War went rather well Armstead Sep 2015 #5
She also referred to meeting with this noted peacenik to get his views LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #6
this is one area i cut hillary a lot of slack. mopinko Sep 2015 #7
I think that's a very weak and completely repugnant excuse cali Sep 2015 #8
Totally agree. And that's why we should prefer candidates that have a human side, a conscience. erronis Sep 2015 #10
"I think that's a very weak and completely repugnant excuse" asjr Sep 2015 #13
I did not put words in her mouth. I addressed why I don't cut HRC the excuse cali Sep 2015 #22
And when someone expresses their "feelings" zeemike Sep 2015 #23
Cali did not attack the poster passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #34
well asjr LeftOfWest Sep 2015 #46
I see by your number of posts you have asjr Sep 2015 #48
Post count...okay n/t. LeftOfWest Sep 2015 #98
I will not excuse a neoconservative foriegn Ed Suspicious Sep 2015 #9
Agreed 100% hifiguy Sep 2015 #26
That may be true but that is damned scary. What is jwirr Sep 2015 #12
George HW Bush had that "wimp" perception to deal with by killing people. arcane1 Sep 2015 #53
"I don't want to be seen as weak, so let's take a chance on killing Zorra Sep 2015 #16
I have seen this rationale from Hillary apologists several times now LondonReign2 Sep 2015 #20
persona = politics ish of the hammer Sep 2015 #24
A lot of male Democrats did also. Ever since Viet Nam and being called soft. LiberalArkie Sep 2015 #28
In other words, she voted for the war to advance her career. arcane1 Sep 2015 #52
Since when is being a warmonger a sign of strength? CoffeeCat Sep 2015 #101
i'm not equating those things, but people do. mopinko Sep 2015 #102
Uh huh, yeah, got it. Darb Sep 2015 #11
so you're on board with an aggressively I interventionist foreign policy? cali Sep 2015 #15
No, however, I am against guilt by association, or even by consult. Darb Sep 2015 #18
it's hardly just association. it's her record cali Sep 2015 #21
What? Darb Sep 2015 #37
careful! you are being baited into getting a hide.... bettyellen Sep 2015 #44
"Aggressively interventionist foreign policy"? Where do you get THAT from? George II Sep 2015 #89
Robert Kagan & his NeoCon Wife Victoria Nuland who served Bill Clinton, Dick Cheney and SOS Hillary KoKo Sep 2015 #14
KoKo, thanks so much for this info. summerschild Sep 2015 #25
Clearly you're just an irrational hater who hates Obama's race and Clinton's gender. arcane1 Sep 2015 #54
The vast universe of my ignorance is now a teeny bit smaller. Thanks KoKo. Scuba Sep 2015 #99
Once again I bail out of Hillary's boat on the way to the primaries. summerschild Sep 2015 #19
...! KoKo Sep 2015 #100
During Obama's first term... wyldwolf Sep 2015 #27
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Sep 2015 #30
HAHAHA! Love it! LeftOfWest Sep 2015 #47
Hahahahahahahahaha dorkzilla Sep 2015 #31
tongue halfway in cheek for sure wyldwolf Sep 2015 #32
And the piling on continues.... George II Sep 2015 #29
uh oh. wyldwolf Sep 2015 #33
According to wiki passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #38
He wasn't hired at the same time as the appointment of Clinton as Secretary of State. George II Sep 2015 #39
I tried to research it (google) and I couldn't find who and when he was hired passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #40
I think the responsibility to check his background belongs to the OP. She's the one who threw out.. George II Sep 2015 #41
If she has better access than I do, then yes, she could do that passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #43
Sorry, I haven't presented his resume here as being what it is in the OP..... George II Sep 2015 #50
I'm sorry, but passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #55
And kudos to you too, passiveporcupine. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #60
She got a hide for the OP passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #65
No, for a post in another thread. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #66
I missed that passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #72
It is being done by both sides. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #76
I don't understand why this is allowed passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #78
There's no easy solution. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #79
Be careful passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #81
Aw, right back atcha, pp! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #82
No kidding, I have three now, and just survived another jury verdict arcane1 Sep 2015 #83
I own up to mine too, lol! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #84
I have two recent hides, both ridiculous. Vattel Sep 2015 #94
Did the alerter lie about your posts? beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #95
I am being more careful now. Vattel Sep 2015 #96
"until you can legitimize your position, her statement stands" George II Sep 2015 #97
Clinton did hire him, for a 2-year term in 2011 arcane1 Sep 2015 #61
Post 56, post 56, post 56. George II Sep 2015 #91
And she selected him to work on her Foreign Affairs Policy Board arcane1 Sep 2015 #92
Maybe now it's time for YOU to go read "Post 56" - have a great evening. George II Sep 2015 #93
See post 56. This poster's claim is pure made-up bullshit. arcane1 Sep 2015 #57
No it isn't. Do you know when Kagan started working for the State Department? It wasn't during... George II Sep 2015 #64
December, 2011. Unless you have a link to refute my link direct from the State Department. arcane1 Sep 2015 #67
The Obama administration was not his first stint at State, the first was under Reagan and George Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #70
Somehow I don't think that fact will bolster their argument arcane1 Sep 2015 #75
Like I asked rhetorically earlier, I'll say it outright now - you don't know how..... George II Sep 2015 #85
I DO know, and I've led you to the post several times proving it. Here it is again to ignore: arcane1 Sep 2015 #86
Simply NOT true - Kagan has been working for the State Department for more than 30 years! He.... George II Sep 2015 #88
Please point out exactly what is incorrect in the State.gov article. arcane1 Sep 2015 #90
"This is an pointless discussion." beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #87
State.gov: "Secretary Clinton selected a distinguished, diverse, and bipartisan membership..." arcane1 Sep 2015 #56
WELL DONE!!! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #59
Thanks, they make it too easy sometimes. arcane1 Sep 2015 #62
It was, and then they came after me. beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #63
And my post goes ignored while other posts get replies telling me I'm ignorant. arcane1 Sep 2015 #68
You don't know what you're talk...SQUIRRELL!!! beam me up scottie Sep 2015 #69
Oh my! passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #73
Many neocons on that list. AtomicKitten Sep 2015 #107
it's we report, you decide. SouthernProgressive Sep 2015 #49
It's truly sad that here, on DEMOCRATIC Underground, that this tactic is used. George II Sep 2015 #51
What's being omitted in this case? arcane1 Sep 2015 #58
If you follow the whole thread, you will see passiveporcupine Sep 2015 #74
the shit does keep piling up... Agony Sep 2015 #71
Yawn trumad Sep 2015 #36
Wake up. There's a warmonger advising a leading presidential candidate. DisgustipatedinCA Sep 2015 #77
Who happened to be John McCain's adviser in 2008. arcane1 Sep 2015 #80
Maybe some Democrats believe that having neocons in high level positions Zorra Sep 2015 #103
I'm not too crazy about it, personally. Old Iran/Contra people aren't welcome either. arcane1 Sep 2015 #104
The difference between neocon and neolib? Puzzledtraveller Sep 2015 #42
She evolved from Kissinger to Kagan. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #45
Why didn't we invaded something then? JoePhilly Sep 2015 #105
I guess it isn't only Clinton supporters who have questionable hides. n/t demmiblue Sep 2015 #106
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