2016 Postmortem

Armstead

(47,803 posts)

75. And?........

Reply to SonderWoman (Reply #4)

Tue Sep 22, 2015, 10:19 AM

Sep 2015

I suppose there's a point there, but dang if I can find it.

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An interesting parallel between single payer and free trade agreements. [View all] DanTex Sep 2015 OP

Interesting. leftofcool Sep 2015 #1

We are the biggest best ever nation! Human101948 Sep 2015 #2

OK. So why should we worry about those manufacturers? DanTex Sep 2015 #3

Manufacturing in most cases is productive... Human101948 Sep 2015 #8

Paper pushing is also productive. You can't have an economy without administrative and DanTex Sep 2015 #12

If paper pushing was efficient we would have the best damn healthcare ever... Human101948 Sep 2015 #16

I'm not saying that the current system is efficient, but I am saying that paper pushers DanTex Sep 2015 #20

So you would rather throw people out of work in the U.S. so you can have a bigger TV... Human101948 Sep 2015 #26

I wouldn't rather anything. DanTex Sep 2015 #30

Healthcare insurance companies are useless... Human101948 Sep 2015 #37

Well, no they aren't useless. They provide health insurance. DanTex Sep 2015 #38

I happen to have many acquaintances in the business... Human101948 Sep 2015 #41

US health insurance companies are literally death panels. n/t Admiral Loinpresser Sep 2015 #74

Are you familiar with the dystopian parable of the shoe gnome? Chan790 Sep 2015 #71

Is he the same as the free trade gnome, the one that damages DanTex Sep 2015 #72

Their populations are 1/10th of ours. SonderWoman Sep 2015 #4

And?........ Armstead Sep 2015 #75

Except that health care still gets administered under any system and even countries with single Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #5

Regardless of the details, there is no doubt that large numbers of jobs will be lost in DanTex Sep 2015 #17

That was many words to simply repeat an unsupported assertion. Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #24

If there isn't a loss of jobs dsc Sep 2015 #49

The point being made is that private insurande would not necessarily disppear Armstead Sep 2015 #77

The real point is that those legions of people are employed to deny healthcare... Human101948 Sep 2015 #19

Why is it okay to lose IT jobs to either H-1B visa holders or to outsourcing? djean111 Sep 2015 #6

It's not an objection to single payer. It's a parallel between single payer and FTAs. DanTex Sep 2015 #10

H-1Bs are not for efficiency, they are for paying less in salaries. djean111 Sep 2015 #40

true to some extent portlander23 Sep 2015 #7

It's a dislocation in both cases. DanTex Sep 2015 #9

Efficiency portlander23 Sep 2015 #15

"The efficiency engendered by free trade is not shared by workers." DanTex Sep 2015 #18

But without jobs or with wages curtailed they lose out in the end... Human101948 Sep 2015 #21

Sure, as would health administrators under single payer. DanTex Sep 2015 #22

What are they, libertarians who would refuse to work for public health care? Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #28

That's because most doctors in the UK work for the government, NHS isn't just administrators. DanTex Sep 2015 #32

My suggestion is that all Americans get a guaranteed annual income... Human101948 Sep 2015 #29

This is the efficiency assumption portlander23 Sep 2015 #25

Your first claim, that most of the gains go to profits, I highly doubt. DanTex Sep 2015 #43

A little off topic portlander23 Sep 2015 #57

Of course the cost of manufacturing is tied to the price. DanTex Sep 2015 #58

This is a common misconception portlander23 Sep 2015 #59

Cost affects supply. If it costs more to produce something, then less people are willing DanTex Sep 2015 #60

Price is not directly related to cost portlander23 Sep 2015 #63

Call it indirect if you want, but cost affects price. Other things affect price too, for example DanTex Sep 2015 #66

Harvard Business Review portlander23 Sep 2015 #68

Yes, demand is part of the equation. As is supply. DanTex Sep 2015 #69

Way off topic portlander23 Sep 2015 #70

without resorting to "Magical Thinking" Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #11

If we're counting on an infrastructure boom, then there isn't any reason to worry DanTex Sep 2015 #13

I guess not That seems to be the perception Capn Sunshine Sep 2015 #14

Which jobs are you expecting us to lose and how many can be made by stopping outsourcing TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #23

According to a quick google, there are about 500K health insurance workers in the US. DanTex Sep 2015 #27

Except health care and administration of it continues. The UK has about 64 million people and Bluenorthwest Sep 2015 #31

The NHS is not just administrators, also doctors. DanTex Sep 2015 #34

We can cry for them and nothing will change, just like the 5-6 million manufacturing jobs gone... Human101948 Sep 2015 #36

Why do you think that most of the same jobs won't still be needed? TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #44

Well, if all the same jobs were still there and paid the same amount, then there wouldn't DanTex Sep 2015 #46

I suggest savings would be generated from uppermanagement, marketers, and shareholders TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #48

"Suggest" whatever you want, but when it comes down to numbers, either there's a massive DanTex Sep 2015 #50

Where do you get the idea that only labor costs contributes to systemic inefficiency? TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #65

Administrative costs are one of the common cost benefits that SP proponents cite. DanTex Sep 2015 #67

I think that is not one of the big sellingpoints of single payer. djean111 Sep 2015 #51

the lower level employees will still be needed. It is the PROFIT that will take the hit, all those msongs Sep 2015 #33

Profit is a small part of the costs. Without reducing the workforce, or at least cutting their pay, DanTex Sep 2015 #35

You keep making these assertions with no sources... Human101948 Sep 2015 #39

The only response I can give here is essentially a moral one... ion_theory Sep 2015 #42

The answer is pretty clear in my opinion TubbersUK Sep 2015 #45

The negatives of NAFTA extend far beyond the loss of US jobs. Garrett78 Sep 2015 #47

double take DonCoquixote Sep 2015 #52

Single payer and universal health care are not the same thing. Obviously. DanTex Sep 2015 #53

you still dodge the fact DonCoquixote Sep 2015 #54

What? I'm not denying that, I'm just denying that single payer is the only way to make DanTex Sep 2015 #56

way to push those gop talking points. nt restorefreedom Sep 2015 #55

Democrats who enjoy criticizing Obama, are seldom consistent in how they view things when Hoyt Sep 2015 #61

Assholes United. Thats why. GeorgeGist Sep 2015 #62

This is a telling quote: TubbersUK Sep 2015 #64

Well, that's one of the causes, there are a lot of them. DanTex Sep 2015 #73

Grasping for straws... n/t Skwmom Sep 2015 #76

One obvious difference... ljm2002 Sep 2015 #78

You are correct, the jobs are moved elsewhere. DanTex Sep 2015 #81

The global argument is a ruse... ljm2002 Sep 2015 #83

Calling it a ruse is not a rebuttal. DanTex Sep 2015 #84

I'm not trying to rebut... ljm2002 Sep 2015 #85

Everyone knows that corporations only care about profit. That's a given. DanTex Sep 2015 #86

A large non government, nonprofit sector that is highly regulated with strong oversight TheKentuckian Sep 2015 #87

Let;s say nothing changes in halthcare. Those jobs could well be outsourced thanks to free trade Armstead Sep 2015 #79

single payer and displaced insurance workers Roy Ellefson Sep 2015 #80

Free trade agreements include that also. DanTex Sep 2015 #82