An interesting parallel between single payer and free trade agreements.

[ljm2002]

85. I'm not trying to rebut...

...I'm trying to have a discussion.

And yes, globalization is largely a ruse to mask the real agendas of the multinational corporations, which is of course all about maximizing profits to the exclusion of any other goal.

Cheaper goods is not an unalloyed good. Denying this is stupid. Yes we are remotely and not so remotely losing the ability to support ourselves. We no longer manufacture clothing or furniture in this country, except for small-scale specialized enterprises. What we do is ship our raw goods overseas -- using fossil fuels to do so -- and then import those same goods as finished products, again using fossil fuels to do so. Do you really not see the environmental costs of doing things this way?

Also, importing manufactured goods from abroad often means poorer quality. Importing pet food from China resulted in the sickness and death of pets here. I don't say this to demonize China, but rather to point out that this globalization often removes the manufacturers from seeing first hand the consequences of their shoddy practices, and therefore removes incentives to do it better.

I am not advocating against all international trade, but we really do need to re-think a lot of it based on environmental concerns as well as societal concerns -- not just for the US but for those other countries as well. Mexican farmers is just one example of the deleterious effects of so-called "free trade". There are many others.

But to get back to health care: if you truly think that $200 on consumer goods can be equated to $200 on health care then I don't think we can have a productive discussion. Your thinking is totally bottom-line and dollar-driven. My thinking is that we must consider the underlying reality: societal, environmental, human well-being.

BTW, I do agree that health care for all can be achieved in various ways. But you need to realize, that in those countries where the private sector is still a part of their universal health care, those private entities are highly regulated. In this country, we have hobbled our own government from negotiating drug prices, and we have made it illegal for our own citizens to buy their drugs out of country -- when the same drugs in this country can cost hundreds of times more. Our own government and corporations consider us citizens -- oh, excuse me, consumers -- to be a captive source of revenue, nothing more. It's just wrong.