2016 Postmortem

oasis

(53,692 posts)

88. I'll agree Obama's message of Hope and Change had a lot

Tue Sep 29, 2015, 04:14 PM

Sep 2015

to do with the 2008 turnout, but that was on the heels of a dismal Bush presidency. No way that can be duplicated, no matter who the Dem candidate is.

Just as there was no way to predict Obama's national popularity a year and a half before the 2008 elections, there is no way to predict how the public will receive Hillary.

We do know this, she'll have a ton of money to work with, Bernie won't. Hillary will have a slew of women supporting her because they want a woman in the White House. Don't forget the situation with Iran, ISIS and the Middle East. Voters will have to consider who do they trust to keep a strong military. Hill's SOS experience and her perceived "hawkishness" will be a plus against any GOP candidate.

Supreme Court appointments will matter more in 2016 than any time in history.

There's a lot more for voters to get excited about in the 2016 elections than the OP stated.

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If Hillary is the Democratic pick we will have very poor voter turnout and we will lose the election [View all] Fearless Sep 2015 OP

IMO Trump will be the republican nominee. IMO it's hard to tell what is going to happen, because RKP5637 Sep 2015 #1

I can only hope it's Carson and the racist vote stays home. Fearless Sep 2015 #3

Trump would turn the US into a nasty place for millions and millions! n/t RKP5637 Sep 2015 #9

You got that right. However, t-Rump, if the Rethug nominee, will get Berned! InAbLuEsTaTe Sep 2015 #251

As long as you have a penis and the altitude of your house is >200 feet. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #22

It will not be Carson. 840high Sep 2015 #40

Trump is already on a downward trajectory. brooklynite Sep 2015 #13

And we've still got 13 months till Nov. 2016. Cal33 Sep 2015 #75

Either Melba or rye, but either way, ChairmanAgnostic Sep 2015 #262

I don't think Trump will make it. In fact, I don't think he really wants it. razorman Sep 2015 #35

Has no intention of actually becoming President. First off he couldnt randys1 Sep 2015 #142

oh, i'm sure he works plenty hard (at shady real estate deals often using other ppls money) dionysus Sep 2015 #180

Nah, he delegates and uses thugs. He made his fortune off of a fortune by randys1 Sep 2015 #189

Trump will not be the Republican nominee. n/t bvf Sep 2015 #63

You can say that again! Elmer S. E. Dump Sep 2015 #115

Given the trend w/in the Dem Party fredamae Sep 2015 #2

And none of her supporters are willing to discuss issues Snap the Turtle Sep 2015 #4

I encountered same thing. 840high Sep 2015 #41

Everyone entitled to their opinion SCantiGOP Sep 2015 #143

So you still don't care to discuss issues? nt Live and Learn Sep 2015 #242

Fearmonger much? liberal N proud Sep 2015 #5

We could discuss issues if you'd like. I don't respond to ad hominem attacks. Fearless Sep 2015 #6

and proving my point... Snap the Turtle Sep 2015 #25

How exactly?! Fearless Sep 2015 #140

The ad hom proved the Poster's Reply 4. merrily Sep 2015 #146

Parsimonious. n/t Fearless Sep 2015 #206

I believe Snap the Turtle was trying to tell you that the post merrily Sep 2015 #249

Your concern is duly noted. nt COLGATE4 Sep 2015 #7

Hillary will garner huge voter turnout. BlueWaveDem Sep 2015 #86

Ding Ding...We Have a Winner!!! kracer20 Sep 2015 #106

Yup, the R's will come out in droves, independents and Democrats not so much. n/t A Simple Game Sep 2015 #196

Yes, republicans who have been waiting 20+ years to vote against her.. frylock Sep 2015 #110

LOL! merrily Sep 2015 #151

She's also got the Super Delegates for the nomination. COLGATE4 Sep 2015 #173

Superdelegates vote at the convention. Fearless Sep 2015 #207

As a union member, I can assure our very large union has not endorced her and members Live and Learn Sep 2015 #243

I believe the same thing about the teacher unions, in that their base will be for the Bern. DhhD Sep 2015 #258

I think you're wrong. Vinca Sep 2015 #8

You are not the problem. She will get plenty of votes from the reliable Democratic voters. Dawgs Sep 2015 #10

As of last week, only 27% of registered voters TM99 Sep 2015 #16

And on the GOP side Hillary will inspire them zeemike Sep 2015 #111

So will I ibegurpard Sep 2015 #17

You aren't the only voter. jeff47 Sep 2015 #18

Here's a hint: a lot of people don't hate Hillary as much as you apparently do. brooklynite Sep 2015 #21

Here's a hint: Those aren't the only people voting in 2016. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #24

Absolutely true. Plenty of moderate Republicans and Independents... brooklynite Sep 2015 #27

Sure! That's why she's already losing head-to-head matchups with Republicans. jeff47 Sep 2015 #32

Funny how well aiming for the middle worked in 1992, 1996, 2008 and 2012, huh? brooklynite Sep 2015 #38

aiming for the middle won't work this time because the electorate is restive and roguevalley Sep 2015 #69

1992 is before 2000. jeff47 Sep 2015 #124

Got any reliable polls showing her losing to anyone from the GOP? 7962 Sep 2015 #119

Hi, welcome to DU. Believe it or not, there are threads besides this one jeff47 Sep 2015 #127

Boy, you're sure full of yourself arent you. Or something. 7962 Sep 2015 #154

Oh, you referring to the poll showing Trump getting 25% of the black vote? Ha! 7962 Sep 2015 #155

See, you can actually find posts! jeff47 Sep 2015 #185

Its hers to lose. Simple as that. She's shown that she CAN lose, so we'll see 7962 Sep 2015 #191

What the head to head polls don't capture is the degree of disaffected voters leveymg Sep 2015 #232

But remember, the RW will do the same if they get a "RINO" candidate 7962 Sep 2015 #235

The "cleanest" candidate with appeal to Independents will win leveymg Sep 2015 #236

Every time u use "hate" - u sound silly. 840high Sep 2015 #45

Same here. Duppers Sep 2015 #58

"But I thought you were a yellow dog who would vote for any Democrat at all." merrily Sep 2015 #85

EVERYONE who would've held their noses for 2010, '12, and '14 did and we didn't win those ones! MisterP Sep 2015 #94

And the more they play their games the more many of us jwirr Sep 2015 #113

Bill has been jumping on board. I don't think he is going to have the positive effect they merrily Sep 2015 #158

A lot of us have our eyes open now. jwirr Sep 2015 #163

Exactly. And I don't know if appeals a lot to millennials. merrily Sep 2015 #164

We didn't lose the election in 2012 mythology Sep 2015 #224

Yeh. In 2010, many apathetic voters who had been excited by Obama's populist Zorra Sep 2015 #269

Duh! n/t Dawgs Sep 2015 #11

I agree completely, TM99 Sep 2015 #12

If you say so. Metric System Sep 2015 #14

if she is that bad it doesn't say much about those that works lose to her JI7 Sep 2015 #15

After all the decks that have been stacked in her favor, it doesn't say diddly about anyone who merrily Sep 2015 #90

This. PowerToThePeople Sep 2015 #133

With the team manager trying to trip them at every step. merrily Sep 2015 #141

I wonder if you see the huge flaw in your argument... brooklynite Sep 2015 #19

Cut the Socialist crap floriduck Sep 2015 #62

It shows how right wing our country has become using socialist like a slur roguevalley Sep 2015 #72

Gallup: "In U.S., Socialist Presidential Candidates Least Appealing" brooklynite Sep 2015 #84

9 in 10 people Marty McGraw Sep 2015 #125

"Self proclaimed socialist" pinebox Sep 2015 #82

The Republican turnout will be huge redstateblues Sep 2015 #107

The Republican turnout will be huge if there is a Clinton on the ballot. frylock Sep 2015 #112

socialism is not the boogie man anymore. mopinko Sep 2015 #102

So if Clinton is the nominee, then Sanders' supporters will stay home and allow Repubs ... LonePirate Sep 2015 #20

The people who are excited enough to be labeled "Sanders Supporters" jeff47 Sep 2015 #26

You are right, Jeff47... Blus4u Sep 2015 #233

Crossover voting disappeared with the Southern realignment. jeff47 Sep 2015 #264

This is why Clinton fails Android3.14 Sep 2015 #37

True But they stayed home in midterms in 2014 Didn't They? INdemo Sep 2015 #78

Please see Reply 10 merrily Sep 2015 #92

I hope you understand that there are a great number of jwirr Sep 2015 #120

Question: will you show up at the polls? oasis Sep 2015 #23

You don't have to worry about the OP showing up at the polls jeff47 Sep 2015 #28

I get what you are saying. Bernie like no other upaloopa Sep 2015 #39

Whether he will be able to govern effectively... thesquanderer Sep 2015 #56

I'm not the one claiming a magical president can get Republicans to pass things. jeff47 Sep 2015 #60

I never said that. My hope is that Hillary upaloopa Sep 2015 #170

Which passes bills how? jeff47 Sep 2015 #184

Not worried about the op or you showing up. I'd just like oasis Sep 2015 #49

When it can't win the election, why does it matter what the intentions are? jeff47 Sep 2015 #52

I'll agree Obama's message of Hope and Change had a lot oasis Sep 2015 #88

A ton of money to work with. From the nice little guys over jwirr Sep 2015 #131

If "so many Democrats are furious" about Hillary's donors oasis Sep 2015 #149

Are you telling me that those abundance of congressional jwirr Sep 2015 #159

True, you are not alone. oasis Sep 2015 #165

Sure about that? Most of us have family we are worried jwirr Sep 2015 #169

All you and I have to go on is polling. oasis Sep 2015 #183

Hillary's trend is the polls has been downward for a while. merrily Sep 2015 #186

We are living in the now. <nt> oasis Sep 2015 #192

No one is voting in the now though. At least one purpose of polls is to say something about what merrily Sep 2015 #253

LOL Want to call a truce? jwirr Sep 2015 #202

Sorry, I had to run an errand. Truce okay. oasis Sep 2015 #225

The question is will the average American Fearless Sep 2015 #199

That's why I think of her as the Tapioca Queen Android3.14 Sep 2015 #29

Invest in Turbineguy Sep 2015 #30

And your source(s) for this proclamation is .... ? Lil Missy Sep 2015 #31

Believe it or not, people are allowed to have their own opinions. jeff47 Sep 2015 #47

Your outrage is duly noted. n/t Lil Missy Sep 2015 #182

I hope not, but I think the party needs to decide what it is Doctor_J Sep 2015 #33

The only "why" she wants that I've been able to figure out jeff47 Sep 2015 #43

even her donors are getting worried. She is a disaster who wants her turn in the history roguevalley Sep 2015 #74

You're probably just bitter because you didn't receive a gift box of household products. n/t RufusTFirefly Sep 2015 #61

She has a favorabity rating of 73% among Dems upaloopa Sep 2015 #34

Dems are 27% of voters. Need a bit more than 27% to win. (nt) jeff47 Sep 2015 #36

Bernie has a 37% favorabilty among Dems upaloopa Sep 2015 #48

He also has an extremely high "don't know him enough". jeff47 Sep 2015 #57

don't worry about it. Hillary will fuck it up. She has already. She should be flying roguevalley Sep 2015 #76

No you are just wrong upaloopa Sep 2015 #80

If I was, you'd post a link to a poll. jeff47 Sep 2015 #87

Boom. merrily Sep 2015 #168

... you mean after he's been in congress for over 30 years?! tia uponit7771 Sep 2015 #227

He's well known in his state. He isn't outside his state. jeff47 Sep 2015 #229

+1 stonecutter357 Sep 2015 #42

Typical bullshit OP. Talk issues instead of trying to undermine Democratic still_one Sep 2015 #44

Electability in the general is THE biggest issue there is. It was why I chose Obama in 2008 and from merrily Sep 2015 #137

That is just garbage. Anyone who doesn't realize the stakes of not turning still_one Sep 2015 #238

Yet, most people who are eligible to vote don't vote. Fearless did not create that.. merrily Sep 2015 #247

I may not agree completely with your reasoning, but I think your conclusion is valid. razorman Sep 2015 #46

I thought this was GD:P, not your personal complaint board shenmue Sep 2015 #50

I love your irony, but not your double standards. merrily Sep 2015 #160

gloom and doom.... chillfactor Sep 2015 #51

On what basis do you draw this conclusion? MineralMan Sep 2015 #53

the poster simply is a hillary hater trueblue2007 Sep 2015 #81

Please see post 45. NealK Sep 2015 #194

If Hillary is the nominee, SheilaT Sep 2015 #54

I don't think so and I hope not. Cobalt Violet Sep 2015 #55

Dogs and Cats, living together ... MASS HYSTERIA!!!! JoePhilly Sep 2015 #59

democrats and independents will vote for mrs. clinton captainarizona Sep 2015 #64

Many Democrats. Not all. Few indies. merrily Sep 2015 #162

Oh Good Gawd! leftofcool Sep 2015 #65

Please & speak for yourself Keep-Left Sep 2015 #66

Women in NH are disagreeing with you. Snap the Turtle Sep 2015 #147

oh boy Keep-Left Sep 2015 #260

I for one will not stay home. abakan Sep 2015 #67

She cannot win under any circumstances FlatBaroque Sep 2015 #68

Sad, but true. nt Zorra Sep 2015 #70

Not only that, no one would motivate the knuckle-dragging hifiguy Sep 2015 #71

THIS IS ONLY YOUR SILLY OPINION. Where are the fact to back up this stuff??? trueblue2007 Sep 2015 #73

there are no facts in this but retrowire Sep 2015 #99

An opinion about a candidate's electability on a political message board. merrily Sep 2015 #145

If Sanders is the Democratic pick we will see very heavy Republican turnout and Trump elected WheelWalker Sep 2015 #77

notwithstanding his appeal to non-loony Republican voters? MisterP Sep 2015 #96

That's just it... I don't think he has much appeal to non-loony Republicans. I suspect WheelWalker Sep 2015 #108

I think Hillary will motivate at least as many Republicans as Bernie would thesquanderer Sep 2015 #103

Actually, maybe even more than Sanders. Better than either would Biden do, imo. WheelWalker Sep 2015 #109

25% of Vermont's Republicans vote for Bernie. merrily Sep 2015 #134

In Vermont, they vote for a Sanders labeled an Independent, don't they? WheelWalker Sep 2015 #210

I don't think the label makes a whit of difference. I think they hear his message and they saw merrily Sep 2015 #248

Welcome to Bernie Underground GitRDun Sep 2015 #79

whats anti democratic retrowire Sep 2015 #98

If you have to ask you're part of the problem... GitRDun Sep 2015 #121

lmao thanks for your time. n/t retrowire Sep 2015 #123

What a childish and clueless post. NealK Sep 2015 #190

lol GitRDun Sep 2015 #217

"Oh yeah, it's childless and clueless" NealK Sep 2015 #220

Hahahahahaha intelligent response Neal GitRDun Sep 2015 #222

Well I couldn't resist believing that such a lovely typo was cute. NealK Sep 2015 #230

Hillary is not the end all and be all of the Democratic Party Fearless Sep 2015 #197

Not according to some. hifiguy Sep 2015 #203

Tensions bring it the best and worst in people Fearless Sep 2015 #205

There's a difference between not wanting her as President and GitRDun Sep 2015 #216

Just the same as there's a difference between apples and oranges. Fearless Sep 2015 #246

lol ok GitRDun Sep 2015 #266

Don't be soooo fearful. Or sooo negative. Or sooooo defeatist. L. Coyote Sep 2015 #83

In other words: Bernie Supporters do not support the Democratic party lobodons Sep 2015 #89

Hillary will garner huge voter turnout. BlueWaveDem Sep 2015 #91

I got kicked out of the Hillary Group for saying this, but with all the negative bullshit in here world wide wally Sep 2015 #93

Most people don't know DU exists, let alone what gets posted here. merrily Sep 2015 #97

You're right, but they are aware of the infighting going on among Dems in general world wide wally Sep 2015 #114

If they are aware, it's not because of what gets posted here anyway. On that, we agree. merrily Sep 2015 #126

I actually was not referring to this OP world wide wally Sep 2015 #152

The OP spells out why exactly he or she thinks voter turnout will be low with Hillary. merrily Sep 2015 #156

If people don't vote they get the government they deserve. Agnosticsherbet Sep 2015 #95

Maybe people deserve better choices at the ballot box than they typically get, too. merrily Sep 2015 #130

Those who vote are the victims, of those who don't vote. Agnosticsherbet Sep 2015 #200

Sorry, we disagree. IMO, those who don't vote because their choices are poor are also victims. merrily Sep 2015 #250

Those who don't vote do no care enough to make tough decisions. Agnosticsherbet Sep 2015 #275

63% of those eligible to vote do not vote. Looking at young people, it's 80% merrily Sep 2015 #276

I think individuals are responsible for their choices and actions. Agnosticsherbet Sep 2015 #277

No clue why you just keep repeating yourself. merrily Sep 2015 #278

I think our turnout will be fine underpants Sep 2015 #100

You don't seem very Fearless to me... CapnSteve Sep 2015 #101

If you are right, then Democrats are too stupid to be allowed to govern anyway. JoePhilly Sep 2015 #104

And now, people who helped Bush sell that war in the Middle East are running for President. merrily Sep 2015 #132

you can blame your third way friends ibegurpard Sep 2015 #267

Politics-as-usual is going to stir up a lot of meh. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2015 #105

If she chooses a well qualified Hispanic Frances Sep 2015 #116

I will vote for whoever the dem nominee is. n/t geardaddy Sep 2015 #117

i dont like Hillary but I dont see her losing to any on the right. nt 7962 Sep 2015 #118

Over a year out from the general, did you see any Democrat losing to Dimson? merrily Sep 2015 #161

if youre talking about W, yes. And lots of polls showed it 7962 Sep 2015 #171

Really? Over a year before the general, before the primaries occurred, polls showed Dimson beating merrily Sep 2015 #172

At times, yes. But that would only matter if he was running again. These are different people. 7962 Sep 2015 #187

I don't remember that at all. Hillary may have been in the lead until 2012, but, as far as we knew merrily Sep 2015 #252

There's a crack november3rd Sep 2015 #122

Well... kenfrequed Sep 2015 #128

True, there is one alternative to oligarchy, Bernie, simple fact . orpupilofnature57 Sep 2015 #129

Disagree Proud Liberal Dem Sep 2015 #135

As an unabashed Sanders support I disagree with your post ... kind of The Traveler Sep 2015 #136

Nonsense. randys1 Sep 2015 #138

So true! nt Logical Sep 2015 #139

You need to change your username ... LannyDeVaney Sep 2015 #144

Really dumb to give up your one vote, over your life you don't get to vote that many times . Sunlei Sep 2015 #148

Your second sentence is correct and that is a problem. merrily Sep 2015 #167

Sorry, it's my opinion. It is a bad decision, stupidity to 'sit out a vote', to not vote at all. Sunlei Sep 2015 #175

You know I said "correct," right? merrily Sep 2015 #177

ohkay Sunlei Sep 2015 #181

of course it's a bad decision! ibegurpard Sep 2015 #268

This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Sep 2015 #150

I cant even tell you how many people I know who feel exactly that way. bunnies Sep 2015 #153

Actually, I don' think you know much about real politics in this country. Persondem Sep 2015 #157

Agitating to create apathy much? applegrove Sep 2015 #166

Hillary Clinton's Image Improves Among Democrats 73%:20% Favorable - Gallup Bill USA Sep 2015 #174

no randys1 Sep 2015 #176

i think you're right, but i fear our dumbass electorate might pass on bernie, too. we're a nation dionysus Sep 2015 #178

hey "Fearful", do you think if Bernie Sanders loses he will tell people not to vote? Sunlei Sep 2015 #179

Hillary is the front-runner ... NanceGreggs Sep 2015 #188

Your first lines provide proof for the second. Scootaloo Sep 2015 #211

If that's the case ... NanceGreggs Sep 2015 #214

If the election were today, sure. But it's not today. Nor is it close Scootaloo Sep 2015 #215

If you think that's my "main argument" ... NanceGreggs Sep 2015 #219

It's the argument you presented Scootaloo Sep 2015 #223

+1 NealK Sep 2015 #226

The argument I presented ... NanceGreggs Sep 2015 #234

Welcome back to the light. I hope you enjoy your stay. nt Live and Learn Sep 2015 #245

K&R NealK Sep 2015 #193

Plus she's repub-lite, so what's the point? [nt] Jester Messiah Sep 2015 #195

Good work! I have decided that I will only vote for an actual Democrat for president. Walk away Sep 2015 #198

Really dumb post. (and I am a Bernie guy) HERVEPA Sep 2015 #201

If voters wants a republican president and thinks a republican president is going to push Thinkingabout Sep 2015 #204

Lower turnout than Bernie, but still enough to trounce a Republican. Scootaloo Sep 2015 #208

I guess we may as well through in the towel doc03 Sep 2015 #209

No we won't. Loki Sep 2015 #212

Actually I think there will be millions of women especially younger women book_worm Sep 2015 #213

Millennials don't give two hoots about the boogie man"socialist" label and are smart enough to know in_cog_ni_to Sep 2015 #218

I'll turn out ,anyway. Scruffy1 Sep 2015 #221

I think you are right IVoteDFL Sep 2015 #228

50% of Americans will not even consider voting for a socialist so we doc03 Sep 2015 #231

Well, Fearless, this turned out to be a really long thread. So I'll add to it... PatrickforO Sep 2015 #237

+1 Everyone at work is now turning on to Bernie. Live and Learn Sep 2015 #244

No, she will not lose! No matter how many here on DU says she akbacchus_BC Sep 2015 #239

So the new progressives-socialists won't come out... Historic NY Sep 2015 #240

Regardless who the pick is awoke_in_2003 Sep 2015 #241

Plus, wrong about Wars, past, present & future. grahamhgreen Sep 2015 #254

And women would not come out for Obama in 2008 RandySF Sep 2015 #255

We will also see a decrease in democratic party membership too, many will leave the party YabaDabaNoDinoNo Sep 2015 #256

I think that will be the case only if JEB is the Repub nominee eridani Sep 2015 #257

If Hillary is our candidate, we will lose. Scuba Sep 2015 #259

You will put forth a concerted effort to make it so. NCTraveler Sep 2015 #261

If Hillary has low turnout, then it may be the way it, is NYCButterfinger Sep 2015 #263

Gore won Rose Siding Sep 2015 #265

Bookmarking Thinkingabout Sep 2015 #270

Possibly. bigwillq Sep 2015 #271

There will be massive voter turnout. DCBob Sep 2015 #272

Message auto-removed Name removed Sep 2015 #273

Seems useless to flame a mere allegation... LanternWaste Sep 2015 #274