2016 Postmortem

Vattel

(9,289 posts)

177. I am actually against this law because it does over-protect gun sellers and manufacturers.

Fri Oct 2, 2015, 05:48 AM

Oct 2015

That doesn't mean that I can't see how dumb and unfair the article in the OP is.

It would be nice to have a serious and honest discussion of the merits of this sort of "tort reform." In the context of the primary wars, that is not gonna happen here.

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Bernie Sanders Doubles Down On Support for Law That Protects Gun Sellers From Lawsuits [View all] riversedge Oct 2015 OP

That's opportunistic in very bad taste Armstead Oct 2015 #1

I wrote and canceled about four replies FlatBaroque Oct 2015 #6

Same here. There was much rewriting in response to this OP. arcane1 Oct 2015 #25

As the NRA likes to say, we're not supposed to talk about gun control after a shooting. DanTex Oct 2015 #18

Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #19

Tell that to Obama. He didn't seem to think that talking about gun control in the wake of the DanTex Oct 2015 #24

That's a whiole different thing and you damn well know it Armstead Oct 2015 #29

No it's not. Bernie has an atrocious record on gun control. Voted against the Brady Bill, and DanTex Oct 2015 #37

You are about to make it onto my rarely used ignore list Armstead Oct 2015 #41

Do what you need to do. But I'm not going to stop talking about gun control simply because DanTex Oct 2015 #46

What a mean and shitty post. Ron Green Oct 2015 #116

Of course, he's a "good man" so we're supposed to pretend he didn't side with the wingnuts DanTex Oct 2015 #120

Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #36

Did you watch the press conference? Your anger is misdirected. If you don't want people to talk DanTex Oct 2015 #40

Not the same thing as misleading headline and you fucking know it. HERVEPA Oct 2015 #47

The headline is totally accurate. Bernie did vote for immunity for the gun industry. DanTex Oct 2015 #51

I really detest the personal attacks that some seem to be doing on you. It can actually be argued still_one Oct 2015 #95

It can be, but that argument is a gross distortion of what this law was actually about. DanTex Oct 2015 #101

My point was it can be discussed and debated. I actually am upset because of what I consider a still_one Oct 2015 #125

I agree. The personal attacks, yeah. I get a lot of those simply by being a Hillary supporter. DanTex Oct 2015 #129

Some have noticed the personal attacks: Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #138

Does Budweiser profit from DUI's Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #137

Yes, you can sue them if you want. But if it's deemed frivolous you'll have to pay for DanTex Oct 2015 #143

Spot on, Dan. Cali_Democrat Oct 2015 #139

Obama was simply amazing today in that press conference. DanTex Oct 2015 #148

Your logic on all comments is impeccable.....I am with the President also. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #144

Just an NRA excuse/dodge treestar Oct 2015 #179

If it was in the general discussion forum, I would agree, but this is a valid point in the primary still_one Oct 2015 #48

I disagree. It's just bad taste Armstead Oct 2015 #52

Then we disagree. It should be argued and discussed. For instance, it can reasonably be argued still_one Oct 2015 #110

Sanders did an interview about it TODAY, it no big deal ...."bad taste" is parroting NRA's spiel. bettyellen Oct 2015 #172

The bodies aren't even cold and they're already exploiting the victims to promote Hillary. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #65

Capitalizing on tragedies to score political points. OnyxCollie Oct 2015 #113

Instead of attacking the Republicans who keep blocking legislation they go after Bernie. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #124

All Bernie did dsc Oct 2015 #181

too bad treestar Oct 2015 #178

Obama on mass shootings: "This is something we should politicize." bigtree Oct 2015 #193

Unless the gun went off because of a defect I agree gun makers should not be.... Logical Oct 2015 #2

I agree. To do otherwise would bring up so many lawsuits and appeals that the courts would .. BlueJazz Oct 2015 #44

And today's horror has nothing to do with Sanders or the PLCAA arcane1 Oct 2015 #50

I agree. nt Logical Oct 2015 #53

If the gun is defective and/or the manufacturer broke the law they can be sued. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #73

"A" for effort FlatBaroque Oct 2015 #3

Wow. Especially your last paragraph. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #4

Which is why the NRA gives Bernie such high marks LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #185

yep,D- Go Vols Oct 2015 #195

if you don't want people to sell guns ibegurpard Oct 2015 #5

If there should be no repercussions for selling a legal product, why did Sanders vote to give DanTex Oct 2015 #10

Other manufacturers are. HooptieWagon Oct 2015 #42

Suing gun makers is not the path to stopping gun violence. Bonobo Oct 2015 #7

Well, it was, until all the lawsuits, some of which were succeeding, were thrown out of court DanTex Oct 2015 #16

It makes no sense. Bonobo Oct 2015 #27

Google the Smith and Wesson lawsuit. You have no idea what this law actually did. DanTex Oct 2015 #59

Suing hospitals for malpractice is also tort reform. Bonobo Oct 2015 #80

Yes, medical malpractice costs are another big right-wing boogeyman. DanTex Oct 2015 #94

The underlying lack of logic of suing gun manufacturers is what is the problem. Bonobo Oct 2015 #97

So you haven't googled the Smith and Wesson case, huh. I wonder why. DanTex Oct 2015 #103

How did you conclude that, Dan? Bonobo Oct 2015 #107

Because if you did, you'd realize that the the analogies you are drawing are total nonsense. DanTex Oct 2015 #109

Can you articulate the case or not? Bonobo Oct 2015 #119

I did. Did you read this post? Here, I'll post the link three times, maybe then you'll click it. DanTex Oct 2015 #122

Make the case on this thread or walk. Bonobo Oct 2015 #128

Sir, yes sir! No links, sir! Understood! DanTex Oct 2015 #130

After removing all your head-shaking and posturing, your argument is ridiculous. Bonobo Oct 2015 #134

Like I said, that analogy is much closer to the reality than the idiotic DanTex Oct 2015 #142

Why is the analogy about a hammer wrong? Bonobo Oct 2015 #146

A lot of reasons. DanTex Oct 2015 #149

That doesn't address the analogy. Bonobo Oct 2015 #156

Of course it does. The analogy is not remotely similar to what the law was about. DanTex Oct 2015 #158

No, Dan, letting a court decide would not constitute proof. Bonobo Oct 2015 #162

The court system is the way we have to decide matters like this. Not just for the gun DanTex Oct 2015 #163

Dan, first of all. The amount of NRA playbook reading I do equals literally zero. Bonobo Oct 2015 #164

So, you're a natural then. The NRA talking points come effortlessly. DanTex Oct 2015 #166

And for a change, DanTex, what are Clinton's positions on gun control? Left Ear Oct 2015 #157

For one, she voted against the legal immunity bill. And she was a supporter of the Brady bill. DanTex Oct 2015 #160

Dodge viper has 700 hp Travis_0004 Oct 2015 #141

Yes, you can sue Dodge about that. But if it's deemed frivolous, you will end up paying DanTex Oct 2015 #145

Whereas the gun manufacturers have such strong immunity even a good lawsuit will be dismissed Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #150

And that was the precise point of the law. Gun manufacturers had already lost some, others had DanTex Oct 2015 #151

By comparing firearms to hammers...inane. One is a deadly weapon, legality of manufacture is a Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #153

Reductio ad absurdum Fairgo Oct 2015 #168

Non-sequitur. Sorry. Locking and wiping from memory. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #182

Thanks! Fairgo Oct 2015 #197

And then when the lawsuits were succeeding laws were passed to protect the manufacturers. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #55

It is inconsistent for progressives treestar Oct 2015 #189

This is exactly right. The whole "litigiousness" and "tort reform" thing is straight right-wing, DanTex Oct 2015 #191

We held cigarette manufacturers libel though didn't we? leftofcool Oct 2015 #8

You can sue ALL manufacturers. Except gun manufacturers. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #13

Yeah because guns and cigarettes are just alike. Autumn Oct 2015 #15

You're really going to defend the gun industry? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #23

Yes, that is exactly what we have. The gun industry is warm and fuzzy. Bernie said so. DanTex Oct 2015 #31

... BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #43

Yeah, the gang thing, straight from the NRA playbook. DanTex Oct 2015 #63

Fear = $$$$ BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #92

Dan you are so looking so silly this election season. Cracks me up. Dan being Dan. nt Logical Oct 2015 #58

From you, that's a complement. But at least you've been pro-NRA the whole time, rather than DanTex Oct 2015 #62

Post removed Post removed Oct 2015 #79

Truth....the conclusion is clear from the collective comments defending NRA memes. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #155

Alert Results: 4-3 to keep stevenleser Oct 2015 #196

Got a link to Bernie saying the gun industry is warm and fuzzy Dan? I'll wait while you fetch it. Autumn Oct 2015 #106

Warm and fuzzy enough to deserve a special legal immunity. But maybe he doesn't actually believe it, DanTex Oct 2015 #117

Yeah that's why the NRA gives him a D Dan. eom Autumn Oct 2015 #127

Forgive Dan, he just hates Bernie. Dan being Dan. Nt Logical Oct 2015 #132

guns are legal ibegurpard Oct 2015 #32

The mind, it reels mcar Oct 2015 #33

You seemed to have learned a lot about specific DUers in your one week of posting here. arcane1 Oct 2015 #39

Yes, this was all in the past week. For example: BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #66

I liked you better before. I didn't think you'd go as low as to defend this OP. arcane1 Oct 2015 #78

Oh good. An insult and a rofl. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #89

I'm saying that cigarettes and guns are NOT the same. Cigarette manufactures were sued and rightfuly Autumn Oct 2015 #87

Actually, they were sued until they put the warning labels on. still_one Oct 2015 #114

tobacco industry lied ibegurpard Oct 2015 #121

That too, but I am referring about it today, I would be very skeptical if someone would be still_one Oct 2015 #170

That pretty much sums it up. nt Bobbie Jo Oct 2015 #88

Crazy ain't it? workinclasszero Oct 2015 #152

Only if you are blind and deaf to reason LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #192

Sanders said that hammers and guns are just alike...did he not? Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #57

And the thing is, they aren't alike, because hammer manufacturers don't have the DanTex Oct 2015 #67

The hammer and ladder industries should be crying foul for the unfair protection for actual weapons! Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #70

in that both are legal? ibegurpard Oct 2015 #68

Guess which one is designed as a weapon and preferred by armies? Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #74

make them illegal ibegurpard Oct 2015 #76

Actually you can sue hammer manufacturers. They weren't covered under the Sanders-NRA DanTex Oct 2015 #77

You can't sue someone for producing something that is legal? Tobacco and auto, etc. would disagree Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #90

when they lie about safety and attempt to deceive the public ibegurpard Oct 2015 #118

You just made a fine case for near prohibitive control and restrictions of these deadly weapons. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #133

maybe so ibegurpard Oct 2015 #169

No, he did not. And you know that. arcane1 Oct 2015 #71

He was wrong, though. Thanks to him, you can sue hammer manufacturers, but not gun manufacturers. DanTex Oct 2015 #84

Hammers and guns are tools, I disagree with the posters comparison of cigaretts and guns. eom Autumn Oct 2015 #98

did he? Oh jeeze. bettyellen Oct 2015 #176

Cigs have one purpose. And they lied about their safety. Wow, think more about it. nt Logical Oct 2015 #56

Guns have one purpose, that is to kill. Think about it! leftofcool Oct 2015 #187

Because they spent years knowingly lying about their product. phleshdef Oct 2015 #140

Cigarette manufacturers lied about lethal nature of it's products. They argued that tobacco is safe. Ed Suspicious Oct 2015 #154

You're forgetting something pinebox Oct 2015 #186

Gun nuts have claimed for years that an armed society is a polite society. leftofcool Oct 2015 #188

Sure pinebox Oct 2015 #190

Gun manufactures should be held responsible for guns that are defective. Autumn Oct 2015 #9

And they ARE ibegurpard Oct 2015 #14

Yep and I liked what you post upthread. Autumn Oct 2015 #20

Smh Truprogressive85 Oct 2015 #11

Yet, still gets a D- from the NRA. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #12

Bernie didn't vote for Afghanistan War? BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #17

He didn't vote for Iraq. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #30

Ignore this one. They're on a mission to distort everyone's posts. arcane1 Oct 2015 #34

Fair enough. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #54

Did not get a F because of some support, like the gun manufacturer lawsuit immunity. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #60

That's like not getting an F because you turned in extra credit. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #72

Extra credit was given for the gun manufacturer immunity vote. For one. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #99

I live in a rural state. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #111

Wow. Exploiting those dead bodies before the blood has even congealed. arcane1 Oct 2015 #21

Yeah, its always too soon to talk about it. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #26

Too soon to talk about what? A lawsuit? arcane1 Oct 2015 #28

It is too soon to use a tragedy to sandbag a candidate Armstead Oct 2015 #35

No low will ultimately be too low, when it comes from attacks from that direction. arcane1 Oct 2015 #61

Stop making this about Hillary. It's Bernie's vote. BlueWaveDem Oct 2015 #82

It's about Hillary because her supporters are exploiting a tragedy by blaming Bernie for it. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #159

Pardon my ignorance and /or laziness for not looking this up LondonReign2 Oct 2015 #194

That was such a preposterously bad vote, I can't imagine that people here would actually try to DanTex Oct 2015 #22

As opposed to Hillary's pretzel logic on Iraq? Fawke Em Oct 2015 #38

When you fall back on the "Saint Bernie" epithet, all you do is lower my opinion of you. Bonobo Oct 2015 #45

Remember how the right-wing said the left thought of Obama as the Messiah? Fawke Em Oct 2015 #64

I'll keep that in mind, because your opinion is what I live for. DanTex Oct 2015 #69

Good one....the only grade - the term itself an NRA propaganda tool - I would be proud of is an F--. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #81

I could care less what you keep in your mind. Bonobo Oct 2015 #83

But somehow you think I'm interested in what's in your mind, or what you think is in the mind of DanTex Oct 2015 #86

No, I don't care one bit about your interest, Dan. Bonobo Oct 2015 #93

Thanks for your advice. I think you come off as petulant when you parrot everything Saint DanTex Oct 2015 #96

Yes, that is possibly just you, and I am not a big fan of the NRA. Bonobo Oct 2015 #104

Except in cases where Sanders sides with the NRA... DanTex Oct 2015 #112

The same logical fallacy keeps plaguing you. Let me try to help. Bonobo Oct 2015 #115

Hitler, huh. That was a good one. DanTex Oct 2015 #123

It's analogy. nt Bonobo Oct 2015 #126

Not just any analogy, a Hitler analogy. Don't sell yourself short. DanTex Oct 2015 #131

Yup, it's a logical analogy that apparently perplexes you. Bonobo Oct 2015 #135

Sanders compared hammers to guns as similar weapons? I find that hard to believe. Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #49

Mark Stern is an idiot. Vattel Oct 2015 #75

I'm also quite sure today's killer didn't give a rat's ass whether the gun-maker could be sued. arcane1 Oct 2015 #85

Of course he is. Anyone who calls Bernie a "gun nut" is either delusional or a moron. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #91

But oh how they have pounced on this topic! arcane1 Oct 2015 #100

They exploited the victims of the last tragedy too but this was probably coordinated at another site beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #105

In this case Sanders is the idiot. DanTex Oct 2015 #108

I am actually against this law because it does over-protect gun sellers and manufacturers. Vattel Oct 2015 #177

I support Sanders. Puzzledtraveller Oct 2015 #102

Car manufacturers are liable for defective cars, not defective drivers. This OP is disingenuous GoneFishin Oct 2015 #136

Probably. That's ok with me. (nt) Inkfreak Oct 2015 #147

So what? It's not like they're banks or something. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #161

stay classy frylock Oct 2015 #165

I hope so. LoveIsNow Oct 2015 #167

I say we start with a suit against GE for the WMD manufacture nolabels Oct 2015 #171

Count me as another in agreement with Bernie on this.[n/t] Maedhros Oct 2015 #173

I'm not a gun owner but I agree with Bernie too. beam me up scottie Oct 2015 #175

Bernie was interviewed on TV about this TODAY people. He thought it was relevant. bettyellen Oct 2015 #174

The flailingly desperation to not discuss anything about Sanders' record unless it's glowing Number23 Oct 2015 #198

Yeah, and there was an alert on this OP too. It is ridiculous to think it would not come up on bettyellen Oct 2015 #199

I hadn't given too much thought to this until I read this post. Vinca Oct 2015 #180

In the time you thought and wrote that you could have researched any of the lawsuits stopped by Fred Sanders Oct 2015 #183

Smells like stinkbait in here. 99Forever Oct 2015 #184