2016 Postmortem

thesquanderer

(12,900 posts)

73. Okay, so take out the word pure.

Tue Oct 13, 2015, 11:22 AM

Oct 2015

I thought a word like "pure" would clarify that I meant just plain socialism as it is defined without a modifier like "democratic" - I'm sorry for any confusion that created. Let's just take the word out and restate the question:

Socialism is supposed to be social ownership of the means of production.

You are putting forth that a Democratic Socialist is a Socialist who believes that socialism should be arrived at through the democratic process.

What evidence do you have that the Democratic Socialist countries of Scandanavia (or the Democratic Socialism that Bernie Sanders is espousing) are intending to ultimately implement social ownership of the means of production?

I do not think that is their plan. Therefore I am looking for some support for your assertion that the ultimate goal of a Democratic Socialist is to achieve Socialism (social ownership of the means of production... companies/factories). AFAIK, neither BS nor those countries have in any way implied that that is their ultimate goal.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

117 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Sanders is a SOCIALIST. Pointing that out isn't "red-baiting". [View all] KittyWampus Oct 2015 OP

he is a democratic socialist restorefreedom Oct 2015 #1

As far as I know a Democratic Socialist is a Socialist.... Walk away Oct 2015 #13

There is a HUGE difference between Socialism and Democratic Socialism Martin Eden Oct 2015 #30

...and all you have to do is explain that distinction to 65 M voters... brooklynite Oct 2015 #33

isidewith.com Dawgs Oct 2015 #47

The average voter doesn't and won't go to ISideWith... brooklynite Oct 2015 #61

I never said they did. n/t Dawgs Oct 2015 #68

Public ownership of the means of production is the one defining element of all socialist models. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #38

So Europe has no private companies now? jeff47 Oct 2015 #44

European countries with socialist parties aren't socialist. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #48

Great. Show me all the _democratic_ socialist parties demanding the government jeff47 Oct 2015 #53

Socialism does not require public ownership of all companies. FBaggins Oct 2015 #107

That's incorrect FBaggins Oct 2015 #103

re: "a socialist who believes that socialism should be arrived at through the democratic proces" thesquanderer Oct 2015 #40

Did I say anything about "Pure" socialism? Here, in the USA, we don't have pure capitalism. Walk away Oct 2015 #71

Okay, so take out the word pure. thesquanderer Oct 2015 #73

Then there is much more for you to know. (nt) jeff47 Oct 2015 #42

I'm not touchy about it. I hope he is allowed to take the floor mmonk Oct 2015 #2

Socialist mmonk Oct 2015 #6

Hillarious. ChairmanAgnostic Oct 2015 #3

Results LiberalArkie Oct 2015 #45

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2015 #90

Correction: he is a Democratic Socialist peacebird Oct 2015 #4

Wondering if there is such a thing as a Republican Socialist?? riversedge Oct 2015 #17

Apparently there is.... peacebird Oct 2015 #22

stop it, peacebird restorefreedom Oct 2015 #54

What narrative would that be? I simply asked a valid question riversedge Oct 2015 #58

your question was in response restorefreedom Oct 2015 #60

No, that was not my intent at all. riversedge Oct 2015 #92

then i do apologize restorefreedom Oct 2015 #100

cheers back to you riversedge Oct 2015 #108

cool. :) nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #111

A major aspect being overlooked here is that Bernie's message is POPULIST and that appalachiablue Oct 2015 #97

Why Bernie Sanders isn’t going to be president, in five word Gothmog Oct 2015 #5

accurate post. redstateblues Oct 2015 #16

most americans embrace some form of socialism restorefreedom Oct 2015 #55

This is true ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #85

definitely so, but i hope and suspect restorefreedom Oct 2015 #98

That is just not true ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #102

i don't believe it will stick restorefreedom Oct 2015 #104

That is wishful thinking ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #105

i am an idealist restorefreedom Oct 2015 #109

75 Ways Socialism Has Improved America Go Vols Oct 2015 #99

jolly good stuff! restorefreedom Oct 2015 #101

TY Go Vols Oct 2015 #112

Well said. nt stevenleser Oct 2015 #7

No, but implying that it is somehow a bad thing is blatant red baiting. leftupnorth Oct 2015 #8

What you said^^^^ NT Bohunk68 Oct 2015 #9

Yes, many republicans support Bernie. You are right about that! nt Walk away Oct 2015 #14

Yes....but for how long? BooScout Oct 2015 #27

But Bernie's supporters assure me that republicans are strong for Bernie! Walk away Oct 2015 #72

Failboat 500 pinebox Oct 2015 #10

The fact that you have to keep explaining and shoving it redstateblues Oct 2015 #20

Social democrats are not democratic socialists. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #21

I described Bernie pinebox Oct 2015 #31

What you described--capitalists who believe in a regulated economy and a strong welfare state NuclearDem Oct 2015 #34

Here. pinebox Oct 2015 #36

Yeah, your meme is incorrect. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #46

I'd disagree pinebox Oct 2015 #49

You might be a socialist if: panader0 Oct 2015 #11

Better than being a CAPITALIST. Octafish Oct 2015 #12

All things considered JackInGreen Oct 2015 #15

Bernie called Hugo Chavez a "communist dictator". JaneyVee Oct 2015 #18

.... retrowire Oct 2015 #19

No, democratic socialism is socialism. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #26

why be so vague about naming it then? retrowire Oct 2015 #39

That's a good point. NuclearDem Oct 2015 #50

thanks for reading and responding retrowire Oct 2015 #77

Unfortunately, FOX News and right-wing blowhards have been successful... KansDem Oct 2015 #43

Well, thanks for coming back to let us know this important revelation. bluedigger Oct 2015 #23

Agreed. I said in another post this name R B Garr Oct 2015 #24

I'm fine with the label, but I do appreciate the sermon. DisgustipatedinCA Oct 2015 #25

And Clinton is a Capitalist. Owned by them lock stock and barrel. onecaliberal Oct 2015 #28

The fact that his supporters are so touchy about it tells me sufrommich Oct 2015 #29

Definition of "touchy" Martin Eden Oct 2015 #35

It's not about anyone on DU understanding the difference. sufrommich Oct 2015 #41

"It" (the point of my reply to you) is about your use of the word "touchy" Martin Eden Oct 2015 #65

Do you get "touchy" when conservatives refer to the Democrat Party? frylock Oct 2015 #80

The Democratic Party doesn't call itself the democrat party. sufrommich Oct 2015 #81

Bernie Sanders calls himself a democratic socialist.. frylock Oct 2015 #86

I can not speak for others PowerToThePeople Oct 2015 #37

There is nothing wrong with being a Democratic Socialist Bernblu Oct 2015 #87

I'm not "arguing against Bernie",I'm stating that someone sufrommich Oct 2015 #91

What dirty stinking greedy bankster supporting CAPITALISTS say: cpompilo Oct 2015 #32

You are correct. He calls himself a socialist without using the "Democratic Socialist" modifier. FSogol Oct 2015 #51

It's a convenience. Bernie's not shy about the term Socialist, but I've also seen him 99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #79

I don't (and don't think others should) attack him for that, but there is a huge segment of the FSogol Oct 2015 #82

It is when it's constantly pointed out to diminish, scare, negatively influence... whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #52

Message auto-removed Name removed Oct 2015 #56

Welcome to the primaries - YOU seem to equate "socialist" with communism by saying "red bait" karynnj Oct 2015 #57

Claiming that there's something wrong with being a socialist, The Velveteen Ocelot Oct 2015 #59

Actually it is 'red baiting' AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #62

Bernie supporters are, rightfully, concerned... tex-wyo-dem Oct 2015 #63

He is Capitalist also RobertEarl Oct 2015 #64

This is the quality of debate you get from Sanders supporters. You can't even talk about how stevenleser Oct 2015 #66

Leser Reports, You Decide whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #69

Talk all you want, just be prepared to receive some answers. frylock Oct 2015 #83

I've voted for Socialists before and will do again. Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #67

So are all Democrats ibegurpard Oct 2015 #70

Saying he's a socialist is not red baiting, putting it in ALL CAPS kind of is. Bread and Circus Oct 2015 #74

WOLVERINES!!1 frylock Oct 2015 #75

Red-baiting requires harrasement, persecution, or deouncement due to perceived communist or Agnosticsherbet Oct 2015 #76

Jesus Christ and Albert Einstein were also socialists. JEFF9K Oct 2015 #78

Yes it is red baiting Bernblu Oct 2015 #84

Many of the responses to you are hilarious, and those are just the ones I can read. stevenleser Oct 2015 #88

So I'll assume that you also approve of saying that LGBT people have a 'homosexual agenda' because Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #110

Apples and Oranges. Actually, more like Apples and Chainsaws. stevenleser Oct 2015 #113

Socialism is WDIM Oct 2015 #89

On Progressive “Red-Baiting” AOR Oct 2015 #93

Are you now, or have you ever been, a card carrying capitalist? mhatrw Oct 2015 #94

whow. this thread is a word salad! riversedge Oct 2015 #95

Hussein is Obama's real middle name but you know what it means when people use it... lame54 Oct 2015 #96

I'm gay and I have an agenda and yet to talk about the homosexual agenda is in fact gay baiting Bluenorthwest Oct 2015 #106

Dwelling on it probably is. moondust Oct 2015 #114

He was asked just this weekend "Are you a capitalist", and he said "No. I'm a Democratis Socialist" George II Oct 2015 #115

Kitty! I think we need a map again to demonstrate! Hydra Oct 2015 #116

+1000!! Avalux Oct 2015 #117