2016 Postmortem

artislife

(9,497 posts)

56. Those who forget history tend to repeat it.

Mon Oct 26, 2015, 12:18 PM

Oct 2015

You have lost me on this one.

This is the major difference between Bernie supporters and other supporters. The complete distrust in how corporations are shaping laws, governments and beyond.

Bees die and no one but governments can stop it. Love Canal can happen and it takes real effort to get something done, just not before birth defects and deaths.

Quick reminder of what our government does. Maybe this one will cause you to pause,
http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2014/04/true-story-behind-appalling-tuskegee-syphilis-experiment/

Thought I would get another viewpoint from around the world
http://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2014/nov/11/unions-call-for-halt-in-tpp-negotiations-so-that-agreement-can-be-scrutinised

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/may/12/trans-pacific-partnership-explainer

Who is against this trade deal?

Among those speaking out against the agreement are unions, workers’ rights groups and environmentalists, all of whom have traditionally been Obama supporters. Many in the president’s own party – including senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren – oppose the trade deal. Free speech advocates and financial reformers are also worried about the deal. Warren is specifically afraid that if it is passed, a future president could use the TPP to change regulations like Dodd-Frank that are meant to safeguard US investors.

Who supports the agreement?

Big businesses like Nike – from whose headquarters Obama controversially chose to shill for the deal last week – support the agreement because it would reduce the tariffs on the shoes they produce overseas and then ship to the US. (Right now 98% of shoes in the US are imported.) They also argue free trade will benefit US companies and create more jobs at home. The deal would clarify trade rules that currently ensnare businesses large and small in red tape and arguably make trading in the Pacific rim far easier.

Go ahead and trust it.

PS I don't think we will convince each other otherwise. This is probably an impass.

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If TPP passes with support from Democrats, we are fucked for 2016 [View all] eridani Oct 2015 OP

We're all fucked if TPP passes, if we care anything about democracy, climate change, workers, etc. 99th_Monkey Oct 2015 #1

I agree, the passage of the TPP may help Sanders campaign davidpdx Oct 2015 #38

Doesn't it require Obama's support to pass? jfern Oct 2015 #2

If it is stopped in congress, it's gone. That's what we have to work with n/t eridani Oct 2015 #3

We need to pressure our own two senators more. nt artislife Oct 2015 #14

Murray and Cantwell both admit that most of the calls they get are against n/t eridani Oct 2015 #16

Well that's pretty much a given ibegurpard Oct 2015 #4

Well then it passes with support from at least one Democrat even if every Democrat in Congress jfern Oct 2015 #5

"fought his own party" is spun into "working with the other side" these days arcane1 Oct 2015 #64

Obama is a big supporter of the TPP (NT) Eric J in MN Oct 2015 #48

Obama not only supports TPP, he is a cheerleader for it peacebird Oct 2015 #84

I can tell you right now that I will not vote for anyone who votes for the TPP, who voted for djean111 Oct 2015 #6

I'm with you. Enthusiast Oct 2015 #8

Does the average voter care about TPP? bigwillq Oct 2015 #7

The aware do. mmonk Oct 2015 #9

I bring this up to friends and family. Quite a lot. djean111 Oct 2015 #10

No, but the people who will be doing doorbelling and phonebanking sure the hell do n/t eridani Oct 2015 #13

I doubt the average voter understands trade agreements period. nt firebrand80 Oct 2015 #61

Thank you! BlueCaliDem Oct 2015 #86

If? 99Forever Oct 2015 #11

You are indeed right according to this article davidpdx Oct 2015 #35

I suspect ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #12

Which is a crying shame artislife Oct 2015 #15

Wouldn't a more accurate statement be ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #17

Have you looked at the data on Climate Change lately? daleanime Oct 2015 #29

And the TPP is the cause of climate change? Granted ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #42

Cause? No. daleanime Oct 2015 #43

Speculation. Just like most of the other horrific things tagged to this trade agreement ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #44

Speculation? No. daleanime Oct 2015 #45

He must be reading this artislife Oct 2015 #47

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #51

Those who forget history tend to repeat it. artislife Oct 2015 #56

Nope.... daleanime Oct 2015 #54

Overwhelming republican support, and few Dems supporting it. That makes it good? arcane1 Oct 2015 #65

While the numbers may have changed since the last time that assertion was made ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #67

I guess this is a subject artislife Oct 2015 #88

Yes ... He opposes the TPP and I have no opinion, other than, ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #89

And that's a shame Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #18

Wouldn't the more accurate statement be ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #19

No, I stand by what I have said Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #20

I asked a question. ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #21

Debates were shown on Japanese TV Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #25

Care to tell us why your friend is opposed? randome Oct 2015 #22

I gave you the link to my OP from last May Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #23

Well, your Japanese link above has not one reason for opposing the TPP. It's a screed about America. randome Oct 2015 #26

I gave you something specific when I gave you that link to my OP Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #28

I don't need a link from May. I'm asking you now, here, if you are so clear that the TPP is bad... randome Oct 2015 #30

Do you honestly think that all of the bad things have miraculously been fixed since May? Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #34

Some of it is good, some of it is not. randome Oct 2015 #37

Here's a commentary from last week Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #40

But, but, but, but artislife Oct 2015 #50

Please. I've said I'd prefer Sanders to Clinton. randome Oct 2015 #57

No she isn't. nt artislife Oct 2015 #58

If it is passed in all 11 countries I believe South Korea will essentially be forced into the TPP davidpdx Oct 2015 #36

I think Vietnam is already included in TPP Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #70

Could be davidpdx Oct 2015 #72

Vietnam's listed as a member on the Japanese Ministry of Foreign Affairs' web site Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #87

I Believe it is like so many stupid things the US have done over the last 30 years.... Armstead Oct 2015 #24

Clinton, O'Malley, & Sanders all oppose the TPP. Doesn't that mean anything? think Oct 2015 #27

Clinton opposes it out of expediency Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #32

I can't argue with that... think Oct 2015 #33

It will. JRLeft Oct 2015 #31

the TPP is supported by the majority of Americans taught_me_patience Oct 2015 #39

The majority of Americans have no clue as to what is in it. Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #41

Those against it don't seem to have any idea either. Every opponent I've read can't get the fact Hoyt Oct 2015 #53

Oh, FFS Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #55

Warren is still telling gullible people that the text won't be available for years after it passes. Hoyt Oct 2015 #62

The UK Independent agrees with Warren Art_from_Ark Oct 2015 #71

It will be released several months before Congress votes. Warren needs to read better sources. Hoyt Oct 2015 #73

Some things ae inherently bad Armstead Oct 2015 #59

Corporations didn't write the agreement, career diplomats negotiated most of it under Obama. Hoyt Oct 2015 #63

The majority of Americans are wrong about a whole lot of stuff. Alittleliberal Oct 2015 #46

That's no way to win an election, though... (nt) Recursion Oct 2015 #90

It most certainly is not. Fearless Oct 2015 #49

Here's some facts for you taught_me_patience Oct 2015 #60

Free trade, not unfair trade! nt Live and Learn Oct 2015 #77

So is Christianity. arcane1 Oct 2015 #66

Bullshit. Every congressional representative in my state says that comments are-- eridani Oct 2015 #68

I think most doorbellers/phonebankers I've met are smart enough to dig through TPP misinformation. Hoyt Oct 2015 #52

The ones who work for Democrats are typically members of labor unions and-- eridani Oct 2015 #69

Not necessarily, majority of unions represent those who won't be hurt by global trade, no matter Hoyt Oct 2015 #74

More 1%er garbage eridani Oct 2015 #75

Government workers, teachers and firefighters are in great fear of their jobs being sent to Vietnam. Hoyt Oct 2015 #76

Which is txactly what all these bullshit "trade" agreements facilitate n/t eridani Oct 2015 #78

No they do not. Hoyt Oct 2015 #79

Spoken like a true beneficiary of same. n/t eridani Oct 2015 #80

How is that? Hoyt Oct 2015 #81

Who else but a corpporatist is in favor of fucking over the 99%? n/t eridani Oct 2015 #83

I don't believe the 99% are being F#@&ed over by the TPP, here or globally. Hoyt Oct 2015 #85

If TPP passes we are royally screwed no matter who wins the Presidency. peacebird Oct 2015 #82