2016 Postmortem

randome

(34,845 posts)

2. Societal evolution in a nutshell. There is no direct line from Point A to Point B. There never was.

Reply to Skinner (Original post)

Tue Oct 27, 2015, 12:56 PM

Oct 2015

[hr][font color="blue"][center]Stop looking for heroes. BE one.[/center][/font][hr]

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Political parties: They exist for a reason. [View all] Skinner Oct 2015 OP

Can I get an "Amen"? NurseJackie Oct 2015 #1

And THREE Hallelujahs!! George II Oct 2015 #71

Societal evolution in a nutshell. There is no direct line from Point A to Point B. There never was. randome Oct 2015 #2

at least three of our Fourfounding Fathers ChairmanAgnostic Oct 2015 #3

And they were ridiculous optimists... Adrahil Oct 2015 #125

This site is also predicated on the idea of sharing liberal ideas. That is why some of us who are liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #127

I don't object to the iddea of talking about progressive ideas... Adrahil Oct 2015 #175

The state of American politics today... Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #177

You make a very good point. The Democratic Party could get way more votes by liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #237

One thing left out rpannier Oct 2015 #163

Well said... I'm not a fan of the two-party system.... Adrahil Oct 2015 #174

Yes well when the electorate was small... Agschmid Oct 2015 #207

Then they chose the a really bad system to implement mythology Oct 2015 #222

Great informative post workinclasszero Oct 2015 #4

Except the goal posts move. Fearless Oct 2015 #42

and insurgency from Marty McGraw Oct 2015 #88

"increase our chances of affecting change" oasis Oct 2015 #5

Someone out there is telling a republican azmom Oct 2015 #26

Wow! Great point! Fawke Em Oct 2015 #29

Well, but those who are, are right ConservativeDemocrat Oct 2015 #83

That is my point. Parties are meant to divide azmom Oct 2015 #90

Illusion of choice? ConservativeDemocrat Oct 2015 #234

Honestly now, what do you really think of Trump or Carson's chances oasis Oct 2015 #39

trump beats hillary, bernie beats trump. nt restorefreedom Oct 2015 #82

... SidDithers Oct 2015 #98

hillary is within the moe, wins in some, loses in some, and she will never best trump restorefreedom Oct 2015 #102

In what alternate world did you pull that out of? William769 Oct 2015 #130

recent polling and favorability/trustworthiness ratings restorefreedom Oct 2015 #133

Exactly! And knowing that ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #80

Great post! leftofcool Oct 2015 #6

Is this a good time to talk about the merits of proportional representation vs first past the post? Electric Monk Oct 2015 #7

Proportional representation would be much better. Good post. DanTex Oct 2015 #20

It has a lot of merit. jalan48 Oct 2015 #22

Great post! n/t whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #53

It is great and I do like it better. BlueMTexpat Oct 2015 #75

Yes; but, until such time ... n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #81

I'm sure in the past MLK said 'Well, our current setup sucks, but until such time....' Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #179

MLK wasn't typing stuff on the internet ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #194

I'll accept your point as meaning different than my inference. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #196

Yes ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #220

Problems Answerman Oct 2015 #91

Approval voting would bolster our Democracy. joshcryer Oct 2015 #167

I have to admit chervilant Oct 2015 #225

Good post. Lisa D Oct 2015 #8

What comes down to is voting in my own interests. Agnosticsherbet Oct 2015 #9

Commom sense tells me to join a political azmom Oct 2015 #10

This message was self-deleted by its author 1000words Oct 2015 #18

Preach! Maedhros Oct 2015 #23

+ infinity for common sense. nt Zorra Oct 2015 #24

... AzDar Oct 2015 #33

Yes. Our two-party system is corrupt. Martin Eden Oct 2015 #35

When the real battle is between plutocratic vs. democratic control senz Oct 2015 #101

me too. liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #122

there isn't going to be a revolution JI7 Oct 2015 #124

If you believe this election is only about azmom Oct 2015 #126

The revolution will be hashtagged SomeGuyInEagan Oct 2015 #150

It is a great post merging group dynamics of power and mathematics. William769 Oct 2015 #131

K & R. n/t FSogol Oct 2015 #11

The two party system no longer represents the best interests of the people AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #12

The break came when Skidmore Oct 2015 #27

The break came with Reagan AgingAmerican Oct 2015 #108

And when they spend decades abusing your guarenteed vote to move the party jeff47 Oct 2015 #13

What was presented is mostly standard "We stand between you and the enemy" HereSince1628 Oct 2015 #197

here's the problem with that ibegurpard Oct 2015 #14

+100 Duppers Oct 2015 #58

+1000 fbc Oct 2015 #63

Please point out the part where I said the candidates are the same. (nt) Skinner Oct 2015 #115

when you said ibegurpard Oct 2015 #135

Bob, Lance, and Jenny are also part of the coalition. Skinner Oct 2015 #137

Yup. Jester Messiah Oct 2015 #143

Lobbying is not the problem as much as campaign finance. joshcryer Oct 2015 #168

Lobbyists ARE a problem ibegurpard Oct 2015 #189

My wife is a lobbyist and it's not what you think. n/t Dawgs Oct 2015 #209

I think you nailed the problem. GeorgeGist Oct 2015 #15

And in the end mindwalker_i Oct 2015 #43

and eventually Fairgo Oct 2015 #55

Mice mindwalker_i Oct 2015 #113

+1.nt Snotcicles Oct 2015 #49

We all know how this works - TBF Oct 2015 #16

Just posted something similar below. Fawke Em Oct 2015 #28

I will post further in the socialist group. TBF Oct 2015 #31

They're feeding you hot dogs and other processed 'meats', so you get colorectal cancer, so they Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #180

Yep. This is what's happening. senz Oct 2015 #105

As a socialist here's how I resolve this issue: joshcryer Oct 2015 #169

But the implication with this OP is that TBF Oct 2015 #191

I disagree. joshcryer Oct 2015 #192

This Sanders voter appreciates your post. I do GOTV in NC and those who play blm Oct 2015 #17

Math! mcar Oct 2015 #19

they're also source of power, not just pure voluntaristic representation MisterP Oct 2015 #21

Sorry. Sometimes there is no "like minded" candidate in Fawke Em Oct 2015 #25

Makes sense if you're still operating under the utopian notion that whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #30

That's the way the establishment works. They azmom Oct 2015 #97

We are more likely to win the general election if we stick together. MADem Oct 2015 #32

Bet you are counting the days for the 'great purge', eh? Purveyor Oct 2015 #111

Purge, smurge--interesting that your mind goes that way, though. MADem Oct 2015 #116

In our American political system, our political parties are NOT controlled by voters Maedhros Oct 2015 #34

Brilliant! whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #36

I can't claim credit for it - I saw it years ago on another blog Maedhros Oct 2015 #38

I'm sure loyalists will scoff, but I think it's fairly accurate at this point. whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #41

Well, we've seen it in action many times. Maedhros Oct 2015 #46

Excellent points for those who've forgotten. Duppers Oct 2015 #94

The Republicans worked long and hard to cement two fundamental untruths Maedhros Oct 2015 #104

Well said. Duppers Oct 2015 #107

Agree with all you said. n/t sammythecat Oct 2015 #200

We say this... c-ville rook Oct 2015 #212

"How is he going to pay for it?" is the phrase that sounds most Republican. [n/t] Maedhros Oct 2015 #232

"I, for one, would rather our Party be bold and fight to win. That's why I'm voting for Bernie." rhett o rick Oct 2015 #244

The metaphor of the political ratchet goes back to at least 1966, when a RW Brit complained about it muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #227

+100 bbgrunt Oct 2015 #52

then why do the voters vote for their candidates? treestar Oct 2015 #54

Guess what? Turnout isn't 100%. And it's been dropping. jeff47 Oct 2015 #59

Reminds me of a song by Kansas around 1974, Sparks of the Tempest MasonDreams Oct 2015 #72

+ another 100 Duppers Oct 2015 #93

I like the way your mind works! senz Oct 2015 #112

thank you! All this is doing is moving things further and further to the right. The Dem party antigop Oct 2015 #136

To be honest, I'm doing great right now. Maedhros Oct 2015 #139

thank you. nt antigop Oct 2015 #142

I have come to the conclusion... antigop Oct 2015 #144

A perfect example of the result of this is the Supreme Court for the past 40 or more years. corkhead Oct 2015 #213

Thank you. You are 100% correct. This perfectly illustrates the problem. whereisjustice Oct 2015 #247

Beautiful metaphor, exactly how I feel about the country today. SomeGuyInEagan Oct 2015 #248

That's a valid point of view and you put it forth well Fumesucker Oct 2015 #37

I get that, and it's why I usually don't buy it when a DUer threatens not to vote for the nominee. Skinner Oct 2015 #79

The ending is an important point rpannier Oct 2015 #164

And there's a related problem. Skinner Oct 2015 #217

That is subjective and a personal opinion and quite frankly I don't give a damn if anyone thinks I liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #239

And that's why the far leftists are accusing Bernie of merely being a Hillary 'sheepdog'. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #182

I think that is why Democratic politicians pay attention to gun owners. Gun owners are about liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #129

I agree with you. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #183

This reaks of get back in line and support Hillary the persumptive nominee. Fearless Oct 2015 #40

i can read that too retrowire Oct 2015 #45

Only if you think Bernie or O'Malley can't/won't win the primary ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #87

No. Only if you understand which side the poster posts from Fearless Oct 2015 #92

Okay ... You choice to project. Gotcha. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #95

Just like you believe the post is unbiased and simply a random PSA Fearless Oct 2015 #96

I don't think I have attributed negative or positive intent to the OP's motives ... Have I? 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #99

You have. Fearless Oct 2015 #100

Okay. n/t 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #110

I VOTE TOM! retrowire Oct 2015 #44

I would like to see us move to IRV Snotcicles Oct 2015 #47

I like this concept too mcar Oct 2015 #123

No. But thanks. Bank$ter/donors have had theirs, I won't help them with another one.n/t jtuck004 Oct 2015 #48

I would prefer more parties or proportional voting mmonk Oct 2015 #50

Great post! treestar Oct 2015 #51

I'm a Democrat and a proud partisan OKNancy Oct 2015 #56

And yet the party you grew up with Fearless Oct 2015 #57

That is an interesting comment ismnotwasm Oct 2015 #65

I'm old, but not that old! OKNancy Oct 2015 #66

This ... BlueMTexpat Oct 2015 #78

Eisenhower looks good by today's standards. senz Oct 2015 #109

Some people say that and also say Nixon... I disagree. Only the fog of time OKNancy Oct 2015 #120

+1 Jamaal510 Oct 2015 #157

Yes, there's a lot of romanticizing the party whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #67

Boomer Sooner! OKNancy Oct 2015 #68

Similarly I grew up painting strike signs with my dad - TBF Oct 2015 #89

I love posts like this ismnotwasm Oct 2015 #60

Coke is a lot better than Pepsi. mhatrw Oct 2015 #61

Average citizens know that Republicans are nothing like Democrats ConservativeDemocrat Oct 2015 #85

Bazinga! mmonk Oct 2015 #214

You went to a lot of trouble, but... HassleCat Oct 2015 #62

You make this sound like sadoldgirl Oct 2015 #64

Because it kind of is. gcomeau Oct 2015 #233

May I point out,your theory was proven when they finally stopped including a non candidate-Joe Biden boston bean Oct 2015 #69

Very interesting Iliyah Oct 2015 #70

Very well articulated and well said. Thank you. George II Oct 2015 #73

HUGE K & R!!!!! BlueMTexpat Oct 2015 #74

I haven't read the comments; but, I enjoyed your hypothetical ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2015 #76

"I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #77

I love that. Thank you. senz Oct 2015 #114

Thomas Jefferson might not have been willing to join a political party to go to heaven... Skinner Oct 2015 #117

"The best laid schemes o' mice an' men / Gang aft agley" Robert Burns Tierra_y_Libertad Oct 2015 #119

He also committed genocide against the Native Americans. Jefferson was not the greatest man liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #128

reminds me of Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #184

Well alright then, but willvotesdem Oct 2015 #84

Well done. Thanks for the post. nt SunSeeker Oct 2015 #86

I'm going with Hannah she figured out how to win.... Historic NY Oct 2015 #103

It comes down to a simple question.... daleanime Oct 2015 #106

But they don't have to be crappy. nt artislife Oct 2015 #118

Skinner, you are an educated man. You paid attention in Civics class. Why can't more be like you? Hekate Oct 2015 #121

Too many people are getting 'hung' by both parties. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #185

THIS!!!! And those who benefit from the status quo or who haven't been harmed by it won't/don't antigop Oct 2015 #211

Parties are important Gothmog Oct 2015 #132

"Not everyone in the coalition is going to be your ideological soul-mate." - this is, indeed, true. Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #134

Well put! nt Dr Hobbitstein Oct 2015 #224

One thing esp. needs to be considered..what happens to the new folks Bernie brings in. madfloridian Oct 2015 #138

I'd like to see the nominee, if it is who i suspect it will be, do a better job courting Millenials Warren DeMontague Oct 2015 #140

Those who do not vote will not fall in line like party loyalists. That kind of persuasion and liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #145

Things are different this time. madfloridian Oct 2015 #146

The dirty little secret is that neither party really wants a landslide election Fumesucker Oct 2015 #171

That is a very real phenomenon which goes relatively unnoticed. But when the Dems had control GoneFishin Oct 2015 #186

Amen to that. With it the way it is now they don't really have to do anything. They get to sit back, liberal_at_heart Oct 2015 #238

coalition politics bigtree Oct 2015 #141

BUT HILLERY CLINTON IS NOT LIBERAL houston_radical Oct 2015 #147

It's "Hillary." Just thought you might want to know while your CTRL+V is spazzing out. Scootaloo Oct 2015 #151

Lol, thank you for that. Agschmid Oct 2015 #210

See, now this is a good post. Dem2 Oct 2015 #148

Your example explains how powerful parties are and why to vote for a party. RichVRichV Oct 2015 #149

We could quibble over whether it is a threat it a warning. Skinner Oct 2015 #199

you're on the right track, but... antigop Oct 2015 #204

Hillary and Debbie Wasserman Shultz are doing their best to suppress the vote that's for damn sure whereisjustice Oct 2015 #152

+1 GoneFishin Oct 2015 #188

Jenny Is The Richest Person In The Country, And Is Not Happy Being Last NonMetro Oct 2015 #153

Very good description of how a political party functions but much better than the description Thinkingabout Oct 2015 #154

This would be a better argument jfern Oct 2015 #155

If only we had two candidates for the Dem Party who are close on principals. We don't. We have whereisjustice Oct 2015 #156

My way or the highway, amrite? Dem2 Oct 2015 #160

One candidate's conservative policies are proven to hurt workers, creating poverty and disparity whereisjustice Oct 2015 #161

Hillary was President? Dem2 Oct 2015 #162

Let's say in the above example, Admiral Loinpresser Oct 2015 #158

If you make more than $250,000 you vote for the bomb because you can afford a tax, er, bomb whereisjustice Oct 2015 #159

Germany's multiparty system allowed Hitler to take power with only 37% of the vote. pnwmom Oct 2015 #165

IRV... JonLeibowitz Oct 2015 #170

Yeah, it's not a loyalty oath, it's rational choice. joshcryer Oct 2015 #166

You have just described how we got here. Republicans are fascists at this point, but as long silvershadow Oct 2015 #172

Ever since I started to vote in '84 deutsey Oct 2015 #173

We don't HAVE to have a winner take all setup. We could have runoff elections, even instant runoff Erich Bloodaxe BSN Oct 2015 #176

yes this!!! wendylaroux Oct 2015 #195

+ infinity!! cascadiance Oct 2015 #201

Unfortunately... 99Forever Oct 2015 #178

You, like most of us, are a strategic voter. Most Dems are eridani Oct 2015 #181

Parties are more about elections for Congress or a parliament than a one person position muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #187

When was the last time we had a president that wasn't from a party? Skinner Oct 2015 #198

The way our current two party system winner take all system works yes.... Read my post here on IRV. cascadiance Oct 2015 #202

Countries do have more chance of non-party presidents, or states with non-party governors muriel_volestrangler Oct 2015 #208

And Then Gridlock Happens And Nothing Happens - A Nice Fantasy Skinner - Not Reality Today cantbeserious Oct 2015 #190

So your solution to gridlock is... what? Skinner Oct 2015 #215

Lawrence Lessig - Eliminate The Systemic Corruption In All Establishment Parties And Processes cantbeserious Oct 2015 #216

I heartily approve of your support for Lawrence Lesser in the Democratic primary. Skinner Oct 2015 #218

I Know The DU Rules - One Will Go Dark Between The Convention And Election Day cantbeserious Oct 2015 #231

Political parties are divisive zomgitsjesus Oct 2015 #193

And we are more alike than we are different. Renew Deal Oct 2015 #203

I finally read this, excellent post. Agschmid Oct 2015 #205

And this is why the party keeps moving to the right. Dawgs Oct 2015 #206

This is all well and good if one is fine with the status quo. Fine with 50 million Americans rhett o rick Oct 2015 #219

Don't expect an answer whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #226

Hillary/ Third Way apologia. Romulox Oct 2015 #221

yep stupidicus Oct 2015 #230

I understand the concept, Skinner. Baitball Blogger Oct 2015 #223

that's just the long version of the "lesser of two evils" rationale stupidicus Oct 2015 #228

No, it's the long version... gcomeau Oct 2015 #235

No, at this point it's "the Good is the Enemy of the Not Quite As Bad" n/t whatchamacallit Oct 2015 #236

indeed, that's one HC's few selling points stupidicus Oct 2015 #242

But the 1% isn't offering us "the Good" and asking for help for the 50 million living in poverty rhett o rick Oct 2015 #240

well said stupidicus Oct 2015 #243

And nobody here is claiming otherwise. So what's your point? -eom gcomeau Oct 2015 #245

It's time for a change from the status quo that some are protecting at the expense of the rhett o rick Oct 2015 #246

hardly stupidicus Oct 2015 #241

Who is "we"? Maineman Oct 2015 #229