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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Hillary needs to stop with her bul**hit about DOMA [View all]LostOne4Ever
(9,288 posts)43. You didn't provide facts to Clinton losing, you provided opinions and are treating them as facts.
Last edited Fri Oct 30, 2015, 07:30 AM - Edit history (2)
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=indigo]No where in your article does it ever provide so much as one fact to prove Clinton would have lost. The only facts it states are the history of DADT.
There are no "facts" to prove that Clinton would have lost the election on DOMA, and that I the reason I made the comment about a crystal ball, to point that out.
It is just speculation on your part and the part of your article. [/font]
It is obvious to even the most naive student of political science that a shit-flinging contest about how Clinton was "pro-gay marriage" -- at a time when support for gay marriage was under thirty percent--might have gotten out the vote. That could have been ginned up as a dramatic, rallying issue in no time at all. The word would have gone forth from every church in the land, Clinton would have been accused of endangering children and all manner of horrors.
[font style="font-family:'Georgia','Baskerville Old Face','Helvetica',fantasy;" size=4 color=indigo]No it is not or you would have actual evidence to prove your point. Anti-abortion supporters have been under 50% for years and people still vote for those candidates.
Which brings up the big assumption in your 30% statistic. You assume that just because Gay marriage was polling at 30% (I am not going to bother fact checking for the exact number) that means that all of those who opposed it considered it a make or break issue. Further, you assume they couldn't be pursuaded to change their mind. What if it had become an issue in 1996 and instead of running from it Clinton embraced it and changed minds? What if it became a strength and his support sped up LGBTQ acceptance by nearly 20 years?
Neither you or I know how that might have gone down. It is an opportunity that passed and that we can never redo and see what the results would have been. The best we can do is look at history and to my knowledge no ONE issue has ever caused a 8% change in votes. Especially 8% from Clinton to Dole alone. That is almost the entirety of Ross Perots support in that election and he had a full plate of issues he was supporting.
I would say it is obvious to even the most naive student of political science that could never happen.
Clinton was always in the lead that election. The idea that one issue would have turned around that trouncing is absurd.[/font]
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Hey, I have no problem with that. I remember when she supported DOMA. She was wrong.
sabrina 1
Oct 2015
#80
Bill Clinton won by over 8% over Bob Dole, and given the presence of Ross Perot as spoiler
LostOne4Ever
Oct 2015
#9
I have never denied that he took a bad situation that he was crammed into, and made hay with it.
MADem
Oct 2015
#19
You wrongly assume that everything would have remained static had he vetoed that bill.
MADem
Oct 2015
#20
Why? Because Clinton's top adviser, Dick Morris said he had to go totally 3rd way
jfern
Oct 2015
#23
Dick "Toe Sucker" Morris? You do realize that he is a bloated wastrel with absolutely zero
MADem
Oct 2015
#25
DOMA was voted in by people who hated it, because they were reflecting political reality at the time
MADem
Oct 2015
#33
That is also true. Sanders, for example, stated that his objections had to do with the
MADem
Oct 2015
#39
Here are some things said by the Democrats who voted NO on DOMA, said in the Congress:
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2015
#57
That's just nonsense. You're acting--again--as though everything is static and not dynamic.
MADem
Oct 2015
#30
And you are acting as if you could actually know how things would have went down
LostOne4Ever
Oct 2015
#37
You didn't provide facts to Clinton losing, you provided opinions and are treating them as facts.
LostOne4Ever
Oct 2015
#43
Given that it is impossible to 'prove' a negative, I guess you think you've made your point.
MADem
Oct 2015
#75
He did not shut that conversation down, he delayed it until he was safely out of office, amendment
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2015
#58
How do you change your font and type color? Do you type it elsewhere and copy paste it or
randys1
Oct 2015
#76
He could have let it pass without signing, wanted a popularity boost instead. n/t
cprise
Oct 2015
#18
That makes no sense, either. It's just not accurate. "The Clintons?" Good grief. They aren't
MADem
Oct 2015
#45
It's not PEDANTIC to note that a military instruction is not a law. That's something called a FACT.
MADem
Oct 2015
#47
I really hate to defend the Clintons. But a lot of DUers are completely back asswards on DADT.
ieoeja
Oct 2015
#73
Amicus brief from Senators Bill Bradley, Tom Daschle and Chris Dodd, Alan Simpson
BlueStateLib
Oct 2015
#7
2013 amicus brief from people that were part of the 1996 doma debate should know
BlueStateLib
Oct 2015
#17
I'm gay and I know one gay Hillary supporter. The rest are for Bernie, one or two with great
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2015
#60
It just pisses some people off that the vast majority of minorities love them some Hillary. nt
LexVegas
Oct 2015
#52
What bothers me is the lack of respect for and accurate recounting of the history of those times.
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2015
#61
I'm also puzzled by her need to do the bullshit, I could craft many answers for her that would have
Bluenorthwest
Oct 2015
#66