2016 Postmortem

72DejaVu

(1,545 posts)

54. Thank you for the thoughtful post

Fri Nov 13, 2015, 08:51 AM

Nov 2015

My responses to your points:

1. I will respect Bernie's right to run as a Democrat, and will expect his supporters to respect my view that long term service to the party is a reasonable factor to consider in choosing to support a candidate.

2. I have no doubts about Bernie's commitment to racial justice. I also have no doubt that his campaign has utterly bungled the issue to his detriment, and that the performance of his campaign is a legitimate issue.

3.of course Bernie can win. I read with serious consideration posts that rationally discuss his possible path to victory. I reserve the right to mock those based on magical thinking.

And one point of my own; I've been a close follower of presidential politics since the 1960s. I would suggest that those, of any persuasion, who believe that this has been a particularly nasty primary campaign do a little research.

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Three things HRC supporters could do here to make things less toxic here [View all] Ken Burch Nov 2015 OP

k & r lovemydog Nov 2015 #1

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #134

One problem with this is that the tactic will only work on Democrats eridani Nov 2015 #2

That might be true; but, it cuts against what we are told about DUer's that support Bernie ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #9

If you don't go for what you want full bore, you will never get it. eridani Nov 2015 #11

I know another guy who said that: bvar22 Nov 2015 #97

So true! Too bad Hillary is only willing to SAY she'll fight for the things her pollsters TELL her to stand for. InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2015 #154

Some are, some aren't. It's a collection of individuals /nt Armstead Nov 2015 #23

Many of the millions of people that have come forward to support Sanders are doing so rhett o rick Nov 2015 #143

Okay, and if ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #153

But those supporting Clinton are not worried about the GOP just like those that supported rhett o rick Nov 2015 #157

Are you kidding? ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #158

I think Sanders will be stronger in the General. In addition, if Clinton does win rhett o rick Nov 2015 #159

I'm sure you do ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #160

Strawman? Clinton supporters are choosing to lay with the devil of the 1%, to insure that rhett o rick Nov 2015 #161

It's called reaching out. Ever hear of it? Armstead Nov 2015 #27

I am really tired of the "reaching out" line Gman Nov 2015 #60

Obama backstabbed Progressives within 48 hours of the election: bvar22 Nov 2015 #163

Well they're not the only wing Gman Nov 2015 #164

Who said that? bvar22 Nov 2015 #165

Reaching out works fine with some Bernie supporters, Hortensis Nov 2015 #86

People are individuals Armstead Nov 2015 #94

The thing is, I don't believe there is a "narrow template" of partisan Hortensis Nov 2015 #101

Well, I think the template has gotten narrower on the core issues Armstead Nov 2015 #106

Sorry, Armstead. Deflection into another arena won't work. Hortensis Nov 2015 #107

There are jerks and hotheads in any group of people Armstead Nov 2015 #108

It's the form of the objection, Armstead, and this thread Hortensis Nov 2015 #109

I respect you, and don't want to get into a circular argument about it Armstead Nov 2015 #119

Yes. I like that idea. Have a nice evening, Armstead. Hortensis Nov 2015 #121

The double standard. artislife Nov 2015 #147

Not gonna happen...and, when Bernie wins the nomination, the next thing you know, it'll be "PUMA time, " like we saw the Hillary Brigade pull in 2008... InAbLuEsTaTe Nov 2015 #156

If that's true, then how does making them feel crappy help? mythology Nov 2015 #52

That is indeed not asking much DFW Nov 2015 #3

Good post. Thanks. n/t pnwmom Nov 2015 #10

I completely agree, except on number #2 ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #13

This. Bobbie Jo Nov 2015 #24

Saying from Day One that Bernie has a "problem" with race... Armstead Nov 2015 #30

THAT WAS NOT WHAT WAS SAID ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #33

I will have to strongly disagree Armstead Nov 2015 #45

Whoa, hold up there... Bobbie Jo Nov 2015 #85

obviously, it's obvious if any just cared to look back 24 hours worth of OP's. Sheepshank Nov 2015 #95

The point is ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #98

^^This^^ sheshe2 Nov 2015 #142

Says the one who posted the two most vile OPs ever, one of which attempted to paint Bernie cui bono Nov 2015 #146

Perhaps, you should re-read what She-She wrote ... not just those 3 words; but the entire piece ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #152

The "Not good enough, Bernie" post doesn't exist? (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #72

I have seen posts opining that his communication of race issues to the Black community ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #90

Except those aren't the "Not good enough, Bernie" post. jeff47 Nov 2015 #111

Perhaps you can point me to a link (PM it if you are concerned about an alert) ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #116

Here ya go. jeff47 Nov 2015 #117

I don't think that phrase has the meaning that you are assigning to it ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #123

I'll cede that point DFW Nov 2015 #38

Bernie was singled out for attack on this Ken Burch Nov 2015 #42

Bingo. Nail on the head. /nt Armstead Nov 2015 #49

I disagree with this on many levels ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #100

I'm sure it was a temporary omission(agreed that it should have been there). Ken Burch Nov 2015 #122

Frankly, it wasn't a "temporary ommission" ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #124

ALL of the Democratic candidates can still do more. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #127

What don't you understand about Bernie's being the only ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #128

He never said that economic justice would end institutional racism. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #130

I never said he said economic justice would end institutional racism or address police violence ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #151

I agree. Thanks for the post. eom BlueMTexpat Nov 2015 #21

That paragraph Dem2 Nov 2015 #70

I'm basically in the same boat DFW Nov 2015 #71

Good post Gothmog Nov 2015 #89

I was, too, but am less so than I used to be DFW Nov 2015 #102

. stonecutter357 Nov 2015 #4

K&R Paka Nov 2015 #5

omg treestar Nov 2015 #6

I did a thread for Sanders supporters, too: Ken Burch Nov 2015 #8

Nothing there on the constant insults hurled at Hillary supporters here. yardwork Nov 2015 #20

This Bernie supporter will tell you that, in my opinion, most of the trouble is caused by Dustlawyer Nov 2015 #55

See there you go again ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #19

You don't have to "join the revolution"...but at least stop acting like it's a joke. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #43

It would be interesting to begin linking hateful posts about Hillary supporters to this thread. yardwork Nov 2015 #7

I never use the phrase "Hillbots". n/t. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #15

Quite a few others do. Will you suggest they stop? yardwork Nov 2015 #17

I've twice linked to the equivalent thread I started for Sanders supporters. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #22

Tes, I have an OP or two supporting all our candidates. yardwork Nov 2015 #56

Do you have a list for Bernie supporters as well? oberliner Nov 2015 #12

Yes, I do: Ken Burch Nov 2015 #14

Cool - thanks! oberliner Nov 2015 #16

No, you don't Rose Siding Nov 2015 #47

So true. And look at the posts in that thread. yardwork Nov 2015 #63

Nice list. hootinholler Nov 2015 #65

Case in perfect point. Rose Siding Nov 2015 #68

The construct may be fictioinal hootinholler Nov 2015 #78

This welcoming Hillary's positions....is....unusual Sheepshank Nov 2015 #96

those insulting tones are not employed by Hillary Supporters hootinholler Nov 2015 #104

Twisting"I represented Wall Street" = redstateblues Nov 2015 #79

if you say so hootinholler Nov 2015 #105

#4) Indepatriot Nov 2015 #18

The "RACE-CARD" ... 1StrongBlackMan Nov 2015 #25

Gender Card. bravenak Nov 2015 #28

There isn't any reason to think that most Sanders supporters have an issue with HRC being a woman. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #34

I think you missed the gender card war. bravenak Nov 2015 #35

Yup. Extremely dumb. cui bono Nov 2015 #125

I do not know why certian folks think accusing women of playing the gender card is not sexist. bravenak Nov 2015 #126

Calling out someone playing victim and trivializing sexism by doing so is a feminist move. cui bono Nov 2015 #135

Hillary has been the recipient of MUCH sexism. All women are. bravenak Nov 2015 #136

So she should have known better. All women should. cui bono Nov 2015 #138

She did nothing wrong. People made themselves look sexist by reading things into her words. bravenak Nov 2015 #141

Damn straight. Lilith Rising Nov 2015 #144

I can't make any sense out of what you just said, but Hillary played the gender card and tried cui bono Nov 2015 #145

Many if not most of those supporting Bernie earlier supported Elizabeth Warren... cascadiance Nov 2015 #73

He said the hate card, not the race card. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #32

Speaking in terms of "CARDS" Bobbie Jo Nov 2015 #67

Those cards were put in the deck by them rbrnmw Nov 2015 #155

Do you like to put words in other posters' mouths? Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #40

You wouldn't say that to a MAN'S supporters MannyGoldstein Nov 2015 #26

We have class as Hillary supporters, if the visceral remarks are halted and to have DU return Thinkingabout Nov 2015 #29

Better title: Pot meets kettle, calls it black. Darb Nov 2015 #31

Thank you! Demeter Nov 2015 #39

Maybe Sanders supporters should look in a mirror. eom MohRokTah Nov 2015 #36

"Admit Bernie is as good on racial justice issues as anyone else in the Democratic race. "... SidDithers Nov 2015 #37

Yes he is. Unlike your candidate, Bernie has never supported racist crime policies Ken Burch Nov 2015 #48

The only racism I have seen in a Democratic Primary was by the Clintons. Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #59

"Bernie has never supported racist crime policies" Dem2 Nov 2015 #69

He's far, far better MannyGoldstein Nov 2015 #58

Well, at least he's getting better.... LovingA2andMI Nov 2015 #61

K and R. One of the best posts in a while. Bread and Circus Nov 2015 #41

Thanks Ken blackspade Nov 2015 #44

Can't do it. #3 is a deal breaker. Although, Lil Missy Nov 2015 #46

If you prefer your candidate, that's your call. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #50

Because I don't believe for a second that Lil Missy Nov 2015 #51

Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #53

I'm in the 1%? RandySF Nov 2015 #66

In the companion thread, we're called fiscal conservatives. yardwork Nov 2015 #103

Thank you for the thoughtful post 72DejaVu Nov 2015 #54

Can I give you a HUG THREE TIMES OVER for this line.... LovingA2andMI Nov 2015 #57

Ken, too bad you put the entire onus on Clinton supporters. Nitram Nov 2015 #62

Too bad you didn't read the thread, and note the "for Sanders supporters" companion OP. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #74

They weren't posted together when I responded to this post. Nitram Nov 2015 #75

Posts have timestamps. jeff47 Nov 2015 #77

I mean, while I was browsing the DU page, the one I responded to was at near top. Nitram Nov 2015 #81

I'm just trying to understand what you were saying. jeff47 Nov 2015 #82

No, I'm not going to check to see if there's is a companion piece for every post I read. Nitram Nov 2015 #84

Too bad that thread doesn't address the vile attacks in Hillary and her supporters. yardwork Nov 2015 #93

Yes, the horrible attacks like accurately quoting her and her record. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #112

Bullshit and a deliberate lie. You know what I'm talking about. yardwork Nov 2015 #113

The one vicious, terrible smear of people who said they won't vote for a socialist jeff47 Nov 2015 #115

I'd like to say that I am very happy that Bernie's candidacy might allow me a Primary vote for a Bluenorthwest Nov 2015 #64

Odd, Bernie seems to actually like people. nt artislife Nov 2015 #148

That's a friendlier list than I expected: Buzz Clik Nov 2015 #76

^^^^^^THIS DonCoquixote Nov 2015 #80

Too late. (nt) jeff47 Nov 2015 #83

well put barbtries Nov 2015 #87

This will be much easier if the Sanders supporters could explain how he is viable in general electio Gothmog Nov 2015 #88

He is viable because he can mobilize the 63%. Hillary is not at all an inspiration to-- eridani Nov 2015 #137

And yet the polling and Predictwise does not back up your claim Gothmog Nov 2015 #139

Polling is bullshit at this stage eridani Nov 2015 #140

His lead over almost all GOP candidates is the explanation. Ken Burch Nov 2015 #150

That's how I've been posting gwheezie Nov 2015 #91

I think it's too late TSIAS Nov 2015 #92

1) He certainly has a right to run. No one has suggested he doesn't. Arkana Nov 2015 #99

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #118

But Ken, if they admit Bernie is a legitimate candidate it will be no contest. /s Todays_Illusion Nov 2015 #110

One could argue.. DCBob Nov 2015 #114

I happily agree to all three ... with one caveat ... JoePhilly Nov 2015 #120

Post removed Post removed Nov 2015 #129

Ooooo. Decisions decisions. Play or call mirt? uppityperson Nov 2015 #133

Could be that ship sailed. merrily Nov 2015 #131

Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2015 #132

Sunk like the Lusitania. Major Hogwash Nov 2015 #149

How's that been going for him? merrily Nov 2015 #162