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NNadir

(38,092 posts)
227. Bernie Sanders represents a state that just, for the first time, became dependent...
Wed Dec 9, 2015, 10:10 PM
Dec 2015

...on fracked gas for electricity generation.

Until two years ago, Vermont emitted no carbon dioxide to generate electricity. Today it does.

I personally oppose dumping any carbon dioxide at any time for any reason, but I take endless grief for it.

Right now, in Vermont, trucks are tearing through forests to put up stupid and toxic wind turbines, ripping trees out of the ground.

...Just saying.

I really don't care who wins this nomination. I think however all this criticism of Ms. Clinton is a little absurd. Irrespective of the wave of enthusiastic fantasy here - and I say this as a guy who was a passionate supporter of another Vermonter who didn't get very far in the Presidential race, Doctor Dean - Ms. Clinton's odds are better than Senator Sanders are. Her opponent will be a man like Trump, or Cruz. Is that what we really want?

Mr. Sanders, for the record, has a delusional policy on climate change, not much better than Ms. Clinton's. I am aware of Senator Sander's position on guns - which is as much a function of his locality as Mrs. Clinton's votes on Isreal - and I frankly find his opinion awful.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Gun_Control.htm

Basically, the official Democratic party position on energy is absurd. It's all wind and solar, both of which are wholly and totally dependent on having gas to back it up.

Basically, as my life draws to a close, I'm very upset at how banal and clueless our political rhetoric has become. It's the basic reason that I can no longer have any enthusiasm for any candidate.

The idea that Sanders is the messiah is a little puerile I think.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I think this is my cue? Agschmid Dec 2015 #1
Bye... Hepburn Dec 2015 #3
Okay! Agschmid Dec 2015 #28
Agschmid, please don't leave just because Duval Dec 2015 #123
I'm not going anywhere. Agschmid Dec 2015 #136
Then could you offer a reasonable rebuttal to the OP Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #165
Ostrich impersonation. Agschmid Dec 2015 #183
Senator Sanders has had more bad ... Tortmaster Dec 2015 #247
You make no sense at all. Motown_Johnny Dec 2015 #256
Yeah, gun control doesn't make sense. Whatevs. Tortmaster Dec 2015 #289
Sad that DUers feel the need to tell someone to leave, or at least imply it. George II Dec 2015 #138
It's a great deal more honest than some fuckface scheming to get members thrown out. DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2015 #201
I've heard some rumors also. BeanMusical Dec 2015 #240
That's trickle down ethics for ya. nt raouldukelives Dec 2015 #261
Yes it is your clue to tell the OP rhett o rick Dec 2015 #152
Huge +1! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #190
DITTO! oops......sorry. ....K&R Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #198
I was told huff post wasn't a source by a Hillary supporter the other day. TheFarseer Dec 2015 #195
Funny how they used to agree that the Corp-Media favored the Conservatives, but rhett o rick Dec 2015 #208
^^This^^ zentrum Dec 2015 #211
It's amazing how she can be on the wrong side ozone_man Dec 2015 #223
Precisely senz Dec 2015 #255
Bernie Sanders represents a state that just, for the first time, became dependent... NNadir Dec 2015 #227
No one is saying that Sanders is a messiah, that would be a strawman. rhett o rick Dec 2015 #230
No I don't. NNadir Dec 2015 #232
And best of luck to you also. nm rhett o rick Dec 2015 #239
Sanest post I've read in some time. Skidmore Dec 2015 #263
What is your view on energy? What energy and environmental policies do you favor? JDPriestly Dec 2015 #252
I have covered the topic in many places, but in the most detail... NNadir Dec 2015 #273
Of course, the chemistry and physics of the article are far, far beyond my level of comprehension, JDPriestly Dec 2015 #282
Unfortunately, the rote rhetoric you apply here is absurd, and frankly, deadly. NNadir Dec 2015 #283
"I personally oppose dumping any carbon dioxide at any time for any reason" bvar22 Dec 2015 #267
As long as it takes for you to get an education. NNadir Dec 2015 #274
"as my life draws to a close?" mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #292
It is a wonderful thing to feel one's own mortality... NNadir Dec 2015 #294
I agree mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #295
Link please? hedda_foil Dec 2015 #2
Sorry, updated. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #4
You won't find a Hillary supporter on this board who'll answer these questions. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #5
I'm waiting for Kos to be called a RWer... berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #6
No no, we don't do that. That's other supporters thing. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #14
So this didn't happen yesterday? jeff47 Dec 2015 #63
Or be called idiots per the thread going now in the Bernie forum. So far only a pic randys1 Dec 2015 #128
I tend to believe its supporters from all candidates. Not all supporters, of course. LanternWaste Dec 2015 #184
Excellent post. There's lots of crap coming from supporters of both candidates, although I do think WIProgressive88 Dec 2015 #213
That happened yesterday. jeff47 Dec 2015 #17
I would have said, "NO WAY!" until I saw the link! Hepburn Dec 2015 #21
Both DU and Kos have been thrown under the bus a number of times because both lean heavily Bernie. merrily Dec 2015 #54
That is the freakin TRUTH. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #58
national elections mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #214
welcome to DU. retrowire Dec 2015 #262
Bernie is a great guy...he is the top of the pyramid... mgmaggiemg Dec 2015 #291
I feel like I am reading in an altered universe! Hepburn Dec 2015 #75
Both, that is the truth! Major Hogwash Dec 2015 #188
On which OPEN forum on the internet does it lean Hillary? I'd love to know... nt stillwaiting Dec 2015 #209
No clue, but I mostly read only at DU. merrily Dec 2015 #210
DAAAAAAYYYYUUUUUUUUMMMMMMMMM! Oooooooo SNAP! berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #24
The phrase "thoroughly discredited" is applying to more and more posters. arcane1 Dec 2015 #270
This was not written by Markos Moulitsas. OilemFirchen Dec 2015 #133
Right here... seaglass Dec 2015 #145
They'll call us RW. 840high Dec 2015 #86
Here's a radical idea: JaneyVee Dec 2015 #7
Here's a reality: Clinton's not a progressive and barely a Democrat. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #9
Here's a another reality: Progressives aren't progressive if.... JaneyVee Dec 2015 #12
Is Trump Hillary's Trump Card now? If so, IT'S BEYOND LAME berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #16
what progress? ibegurpard Dec 2015 #18
Regressed? Ask any person of color or lgbt, etc which era in.... JaneyVee Dec 2015 #23
really? ibegurpard Dec 2015 #36
You're the only one who was thinking economically and not... JaneyVee Dec 2015 #52
Except I mentioned more than just economics... ibegurpard Dec 2015 #103
Good point!! Duval Dec 2015 #126
"sexual preferences"? BeanMusical Dec 2015 #241
My 8 year relationship with my boyfriend is not a sexual preference. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #250
She is giving credit to Hillary for the real work done by MLK, LBJ, and the Democrats of the 60s ... bvar22 Dec 2015 #271
No shit MaggieD Dec 2015 #37
Yes! Plucketeer Dec 2015 #119
There is no possible dought that we have progressed SOCIALLY liberalnarb Dec 2015 #122
Um, nope. I was discussing this with some of my 50 year old black HS classmates Lorien Dec 2015 #253
+1 Go Vols Dec 2015 #64
Do you really think scare tactics work on progressive/liberal/Democrats? TheProgressive Dec 2015 #27
It's not scare tactics. I know you won't vote for her. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #40
My theory AnnRKey Dec 2015 #229
welcome to DU - friendly advice/reminder Kali Dec 2015 #233
Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #279
Are we supposed to be impressed? nt MrScorpio Dec 2015 #280
So "not as bad as" is all you've got? By the way ... Scuba Dec 2015 #50
Here's another reality: that is not the definition of a progressive. merrily Dec 2015 #57
Lets see if I can suss it all out. bvar22 Dec 2015 #268
Well, one of the points seems to have been that voting for Hillary is voting for progress and a merrily Dec 2015 #269
Can you rerebut any of the points made in the article in Daily Kos? JDPriestly Dec 2015 #125
Clinton isn't progressing on issues like SS, TPP, fracking, Patriot Act, legalization of marijuana, rhett o rick Dec 2015 #173
Wanna know something very very sad about Democratic picked SCOTUS judges? truedelphi Dec 2015 #179
Bingo! Dustlawyer Dec 2015 #194
Who is refusing progress and how are they doing that? cui bono Dec 2015 #200
Does your reply meann floriduck Dec 2015 #234
...and so will any SC Judges she appoints. bvar22 Dec 2015 #31
And Bill chose the 2 most liberal justices on SCOTUS. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #42
Oh so now Bill's running again? ibegurpard Dec 2015 #48
Bill clinton is not running for the Presidency notadmblnd Dec 2015 #59
Neither is Obama, but that didn't stop poster from bringing him up. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #65
But Obama IS more left than Clinton... and you see what we got with him... berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #72
And Hillary is to the left of Bill...who picked liberal justices. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #80
We got a good president redstateblues Dec 2015 #174
that didn't answer my question. notadmblnd Dec 2015 #87
No, Breyer is corporatist, not liberal. For just one thing, he and Kagan went with the Republicans merrily Dec 2015 #66
You don't get to redefine our party. KMOD Dec 2015 #60
She's no progressive and DLC centrist types don't get to redefine our Party, either. merrily Dec 2015 #71
You are simply wrong. KMOD Dec 2015 #77
No on both. People poll various ways for various reasons. Extrapolating from polls what you are merrily Dec 2015 #91
So you guys keep saying. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #93
The Progressive Caucus is the LARGEST Caucus in the Democratic Party. bvar22 Dec 2015 #120
Many members of the Progressive Caucus have already endorsed her. KMOD Dec 2015 #127
Good. If you know what you are talking about, bvar22 Dec 2015 #132
... KMOD Dec 2015 #135
That is a funny list MFrohike Dec 2015 #231
I join you in waiting. And probably, truedelphi Dec 2015 #199
it's right in the post above you. KMOD Dec 2015 #206
And out of this Large caucus how many endorse Bernie ? Hum..2 FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #175
Huge +1! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #257
I don't like the things she's gotten done. ibegurpard Dec 2015 #106
Could you name what she has gotten done in her career? askew Dec 2015 #161
Well, there's that post office she got named after her friend. Major Hogwash Dec 2015 #189
Not fair! bvar22 Dec 2015 #193
I think she named a park too. askew Dec 2015 #197
What you call a redefinition is what other people call "data" DisgustipatedinCA Dec 2015 #204
Only if you define the center as the Bernie end of the party. pnwmom Dec 2015 #207
As expected, you are trying to shoot the messenger. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #13
Cherry picking perceived negatives can be done for any candidate. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #19
I agree, these aren't disqualifiers... thesquanderer Dec 2015 #46
Agreed. These are not disqualifiers ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #84
In 2008, you most certainly couldn't come up with a list like this for Obama. askew Dec 2015 #164
Her vote to go to WAR in Iraq needs no cherry picking. bvar22 Dec 2015 #272
Thank you. okasha Dec 2015 #285
NO. bvar22 Dec 2015 #290
This is all they've got: berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #20
Actually, no. I answered even before you did. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #26
You can refute any of the points can you? I'm not surprised. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #32
+1000000 on that MaggieD Dec 2015 #29
Jury results: OilemFirchen Dec 2015 #102
Wow- What a blatant attempt to shut redstateblues Dec 2015 #176
What about the OP is smear mongering? n/t cui bono Dec 2015 #202
Again: no rebuttal of any argument, just unloading any weapon in sight on the messenger. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #248
Result of Jury Service. I was jury # 7. ProudToBeLiberal Dec 2015 #38
Ironically, I had a post hidden today for... JaneyVee Dec 2015 #47
Wonderful comment. Thank you for your service. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #74
If anybody doubts Clinton supporters are being targeted DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #90
Alert targeting goes both ways... Paka Dec 2015 #224
Free speech and all? ibegurpard Dec 2015 #107
And I'm sure supporters of a candidate reflect the kind of govt we will get. JaneyVee Dec 2015 #111
yup ibegurpard Dec 2015 #113
The percentage of *Dem* BS supporters who will stay home if HRC is the nominee... thesquanderer Dec 2015 #68
If Clinton is elected, she will be hated by so many Americans that it will end the Democratic JDPriestly Dec 2015 #124
Pray tell........... Beacool Dec 2015 #246
The man who voted for the border Wall okasha Dec 2015 #284
Despite the desperate and contrived attempts to damage Hillary Clinton..... George II Dec 2015 #150
"Desperate and contrived" nails it. okasha Dec 2015 #277
I love how I'm supposed to be SO afraid of Trump.... beerandjesus Dec 2015 #167
Thank you joc46224 Dec 2015 #182
This........ Beacool Dec 2015 #245
But comparing ardent Democrats to the Tea Party is perfectly OK? Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #251
Yes, it is when people act like them. Beacool Dec 2015 #265
continue to stamp your feet ibegurpard Dec 2015 #275
Those people don't peruse this board. Beacool Dec 2015 #287
This site expressly forbids calling DU-ers a Republican or conservative. Betty Karlson Dec 2015 #278
That's gonna leave a mark..... peacebird Dec 2015 #8
Yup, there's going to be chafing... and for that I recommend: berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #10
THis is good too. bvar22 Dec 2015 #105
That's my preference as well. blackspade Dec 2015 #118
Plus 100 for your humor! Duval Dec 2015 #134
HUGE K & R !!! - THANK YOU !!! WillyT Dec 2015 #11
They can't answer those questions ibegurpard Dec 2015 #15
GOP: bad enough that we have to vote for any Dem during the election MisterP Dec 2015 #85
This is clearly written by a misinformed person MaggieD Dec 2015 #22
Can't refute it, can you? Figured. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #25
Refute stupid shit like.... MaggieD Dec 2015 #33
"the person who wrote this diary is an idiot" +1 Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #44
She certainly lobbied Congress to support her candidacy... and that's a hell of lot less important berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #49
Yes, because super delegates vote at the convention MaggieD Dec 2015 #51
Yes, because the TPP is going to cause harm to millions of Americans... berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #55
Oh FFS - she is against it and has said why, so..... MaggieD Dec 2015 #79
She only came out against it just before the debate. There is no credibility in that. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #82
Bernie is losing big by every metric MaggieD Dec 2015 #96
Again, no attempt to refute points on real issues that matter to real people in real life. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #143
No need to waste the time MaggieD Dec 2015 #146
Instead, you'll waste time posting snarky remarks... but not discussing issues. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #148
Yes MaggieD Dec 2015 #149
If issues = smears then no wonder Hillary isn't going to win. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #157
This. Treant Dec 2015 #56
Bern Victims- Sadly true redstateblues Dec 2015 #177
Hey! Step back, will ya? We're TALKING TRUTH TO POWER! Buzz Clik Dec 2015 #34
LOL! MaggieD Dec 2015 #35
Here are a couple of answers dsc Dec 2015 #30
If you favor increasing the cap, then you agree with Sanders, not Hillary berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #39
No he wants to eliminate the cap dsc Dec 2015 #45
Eventually, but not all at once. Fawke Em Dec 2015 #99
Where do you see any proposal for " million dollar pension checks that they would be entitled to"? Vincardog Dec 2015 #172
it is the way the formula works dsc Dec 2015 #191
Please post a link to that formula. I have not seen it. Vincardog Dec 2015 #196
Here dsc Dec 2015 #205
Hillary on "Raising-the-Cap". bvar22 Dec 2015 #137
Huge +1! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #258
Your willingness to address the actual content is appreciated Armstead Dec 2015 #76
It's somebody's opinion diary just like the bull shit on this board about Hillary upaloopa Dec 2015 #41
Voting for the Iraq war is a refutable statement, not an opinion. OnyxCollie Dec 2015 #69
For the sake of argument firebrand80 Dec 2015 #43
Who said anything about.. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #53
Yeah, what's a little thing like voting for war when people are still burning flags with impunity!!! Scuba Dec 2015 #61
Yep MissDeeds Dec 2015 #62
Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #67
K & R misterhighwasted Dec 2015 #81
nah - just smart democrats. 840high Dec 2015 #88
OOOOH!! THE BERNIE FAN'S HOST AN INQUISITION!! misterhighwasted Dec 2015 #70
It does sound a lot like Joe McCarthy, doesn't it? okasha Dec 2015 #281
Familiar indeed. misterhighwasted Dec 2015 #286
Another Bernie Sanders supporter who thinks s/he is entitled to something KMOD Dec 2015 #73
**crickets** n/t Hepburn Dec 2015 #78
I am voting for HRC leftofcool Dec 2015 #83
Get thee to the Greatest Threads. jalan48 Dec 2015 #89
LOL! Yeah, the poster was really looking for a rebuttal. KittyWampus Dec 2015 #92
Feeling the Bern is all the need there is to rally! Hepburn Dec 2015 #101
Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2015 #94
A point I think BSers are missing . . . Gamecock Lefty Dec 2015 #95
Exactly MaggieD Dec 2015 #97
I like the way they keep posting the same stuff and keep failing... Walk away Dec 2015 #104
KABOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMB. Historic NY Dec 2015 #222
Precisely DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #100
Why? dpatbrown Dec 2015 #108
Who needs information when you can do what you like? OnyxCollie Dec 2015 #112
I think a true portrait would be more nuanced. Orsino Dec 2015 #98
K&R. She is on the side of the 1% and cannot ever be trusted. CharlotteVale Dec 2015 #109
thank you! hopemountain Dec 2015 #155
This should be facinating.... blackspade Dec 2015 #110
So now your over to KOS. Historic NY Dec 2015 #114
great diary-- thank you! ish of the hammer Dec 2015 #115
Wait a minute The Polack MSgt Dec 2015 #116
Thank you for your response. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #140
I posted the point counterpoint in GD-P The Polack MSgt Dec 2015 #159
No worries. Peace indeed. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #160
Great post!!! valerief Dec 2015 #117
Not one person supporting hillary in this thread has refuted any of these charges. Javaman Dec 2015 #121
Of course not. They never do because they can't! n/t in_cog_ni_to Dec 2015 #238
I'm voting for Hillary workinclasszero Dec 2015 #129
Waiting, waiting, waiting........... SoapBox Dec 2015 #130
but try to walk a mile in her olddots Dec 2015 #131
By the way . . . Gamecock Lefty Dec 2015 #139
She just talked about climate change zalinda Dec 2015 #180
Great points! dpatbrown Dec 2015 #187
That sounds like the RW talking point used against Gore. Metric System Dec 2015 #203
No, it's just the truth. eom zalinda Dec 2015 #249
I would rebut, but I won't risk the hide. eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #141
Please feel free to. There is actually a very good response here: berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #142
I won't risk the hide. eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #144
Only reason you'll get a hide is if you post something that violates the ToS. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #147
Not True. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #151
I seriously doubt that. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #158
Oh I knew you would. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #162
Feel free to PM me the link. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #163
No thanks, not falling for an alert trap. eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #166
Just as I thought. You made it up. berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #168
And the last card in the alert trap is played. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #170
Got nothing--as usual! beerandjesus Dec 2015 #171
And anther alert trap gets set. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #185
You want to give advice to Hillary supporters? Check on the polls, Hillary is doing quiet well. Thinkingabout Dec 2015 #153
You're entitled to your opinion.... Uben Dec 2015 #154
Um, so? ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #156
questions and answers DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #212
To explain a few points of logic to you ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #216
oh I understand perfectly DonCoquixote Dec 2015 #226
Well I'm glad we agree on one thing ConservativeDemocrat Dec 2015 #243
She's polling over double digits everywhere except NH FloridaBlues Dec 2015 #169
Polls Trump Issues I see.... berni_mccoy Dec 2015 #178
K & R ! TIME TO PANIC Dec 2015 #181
Kicketty Kickin' Faux pas Dec 2015 #186
This message was self-deleted by its author IHateTheGOP Dec 2015 #192
That's a pretty low benchmark ibegurpard Dec 2015 #215
Great List Paka Dec 2015 #217
How Could Any Good Democrat Vote For Hillary? billhicks76 Dec 2015 #218
If you using KOS to gauge it then the comments vs recommends tells you the answer. Historic NY Dec 2015 #221
Hardly billhicks76 Dec 2015 #225
I've only met a handful of Hillary supporters Lorien Dec 2015 #254
I Know Only A Few In The Flesh Too billhicks76 Dec 2015 #288
Despicable. n/t ozone_man Dec 2015 #219
Illegal Use of Rhetorical Questions wildeyed Dec 2015 #220
I haven't heard anything refute anything listed here. No one...I challenge anyone with knowledge... libdem4life Dec 2015 #228
That's because its all true. This is what is so frustrating. We'd LOVE Hillary Clinton to be a RiverLover Dec 2015 #260
Excellent - But, I fear that many of Hillary's supporters here will dismiss it as being a hate Douglas Carpenter Dec 2015 #235
K/R Jack Rabbit Dec 2015 #236
+ a GAZILLION! No wonder it was the most recommended! It's EXCELLENT and every word TRUE. in_cog_ni_to Dec 2015 #237
Kick and R BeanMusical Dec 2015 #242
"Dear Bernie Sanders supporters" Beacool Dec 2015 #244
K&R! I'm happy to see this post has hundreds of recommendations! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #259
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Dec 2015 #264
K and R! nt m-lekktor Dec 2015 #266
Her past is pushing her more to the left! d_legendary1 Dec 2015 #276
Kick for TRUTH! n/t in_cog_ni_to Dec 2015 #293
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»2016 Postmortem»HIGHEST RECOMMENDED KOS D...»Reply #227