2016 Postmortem

Vattel

(9,289 posts)

46. Sanders immigration reform plan is the best I have ever seen.

Thu Dec 10, 2015, 11:28 AM

Dec 2015

Edited to add:

Characterizing Sanders' vote as a vote in support of a conspiracy theory is very dishonest. There is no indication at all that Sanders had any particular opinion on whether Mexican officials were being tipped off by US officials about the location of Minuteman patrols. The vote was simply a vote against such a policy being implemented.

That being said, I would have voted NO. The Minutemen group is horrible and I would tip off Mexican officials about their whereabouts if I had the opportunity to do so. I wouldn't lift a finger to help the minutemen in any way. So I agree that Sanders' vote was a bad one.

But I still think that Sanders is way better on immigration than Clinton. His plan is incredibly good--way better than Obama's. He and Clinton agree on a lot, but Clinton has said some vile shit about immigrants and has voted for fences and, last time I checked anyways, still favored punishing undocumented immigrants for illegally crossing borders. She doesn't seem to get that if someone needs to illegally cross a border to feed his or her family, a decent person will illegally cross a border. People shouldn't be punished for behavior that isn't wrong.

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In 2006, Bernie Sanders Voted In Support Of An Immigration Conspiracy Theory [View all] seabeyond Dec 2015 OP

Ugh MaggieD Dec 2015 #1

I know exactly how you feel - I supported Hillary in 2008, and now that I know so much djean111 Dec 2015 #3

Sad that you've bought into... MaggieD Dec 2015 #4

No, I have not. Just internet searches. djean111 Dec 2015 #5

I have to hand it to rethugs MaggieD Dec 2015 #6

Um, you think they uploaded a lot of fake Hillary stuff up onto the internet? djean111 Dec 2015 #7

Yep. Sure do. MaggieD Dec 2015 #8

That is the saddest conspiracy theory I have heard in a long, long, time. djean111 Dec 2015 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author artislife Dec 2015 #54

I was an Obama supporter and was never a great Clinton supporter. After educating myself on lies seabeyond Dec 2015 #10

Glad to see you will be on vacation from DU from now until after the Nevada caucus! morningfog Dec 2015 #53

You just made my day! artislife Dec 2015 #55

Wow - just got onto DU and saw this. really makes my day as well. kath Dec 2015 #66

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Purveyor Dec 2015 #60

Lol. Thanks for sharing the results. morningfog Dec 2015 #62

I always try to provide the results of a jury when the 'target' wouldn't be aware being juried Purveyor Dec 2015 #71

I can imagine the truth from that poster bothers you so much you want her Censored and Gone. Cha Dec 2015 #116

Lol! Truth, that us funny. morningfog Dec 2015 #118

FYI. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #121

Another good jury vote. morningfog Dec 2015 #122

So, it is good calling some liars, and not so ok calling other liars? Gotcha. seabeyond Dec 2015 #128

I have no idea where you came up with that. If that is your position, so be it. morningfog Dec 2015 #130

Juror 5 has no integrity and should have excused him/herself from the jury. That's the problem seaglass Dec 2015 #136

Juror 5 got it right. morningfog Dec 2015 #137

Thanks for proving my point. n/t seaglass Dec 2015 #138

Oh please. It gets fucking old people trying to play the victim on morningfog Dec 2015 #139

I don't see anyone playing victim. I do see 2 jurors that let their personal opinion of the seaglass Dec 2015 #141

It is often about who had a history of disrupting. morningfog Dec 2015 #142

Funny, that's the OPPOSITE of what happens for MOST people Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #140

K&R RandySF Dec 2015 #2

Along with, what was it? 76 other democrats Autumn Dec 2015 #9

So, I will not hear from you again about the 82 Democrats voting yes on Iraq resolution, right? seabeyond Dec 2015 #11

How many wars started after that this vote that you are all clinging to sea*? Autumn Dec 2015 #15

Ah, so you are sticking to your position even in the face of it. Meh. seabeyond Dec 2015 #16

Go right on ahead and post the end results of these two �yea� votes by the Autumn Dec 2015 #19

You can project however you like. seabeyond Dec 2015 #32

So no answer sea*? I guess we are done with the discussion. Autumn Dec 2015 #35

Autumn*, I really do not get what you are going on about. But, I am at work and seabeyond Dec 2015 #39

Actually she makes a very good point in terms of death toll. Matariki Dec 2015 #92

It is all about the number? Here is the relevance to social issues. It is not all about the number. seabeyond Dec 2015 #93

It's about the consequence of the vote Matariki Dec 2015 #96

What you are not acknowledging is that for you, the consequence is measured directly in lost lives. seabeyond Dec 2015 #99

Sure. I don't get what you're saying. Matariki Dec 2015 #108

How many bombs were dropped after.... NCTraveler Dec 2015 #21

You may want to start an OP about that vote, I don't remember Bill Clinton unleashing Autumn Dec 2015 #26

That vote didn't authorize war. The ILA explicitly said that it wasn't an authorization Vattel Dec 2015 #33

So the multiple days of bombing in Iraq right after the vote was just strange timing. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #34

You are not making sense. The ILA didn't authorize bombing. That is just a fact. Vattel Dec 2015 #44

Reality goes against what you are saying. Completely. NCTraveler Dec 2015 #47

Here, have a dose of reality: Vattel Dec 2015 #49

At least two lunamagica Dec 2015 #63

During a robbery Autumn Dec 2015 #73

Ah, during a robbery. That makes it all right lunamagica Dec 2015 #77

Do you have a link showing that these murders were related to the bill that Bernie voted on? Autumn Dec 2015 #79

The protection allowed by this bill allowed for this to happen lunamagica Dec 2015 #81

I don't know enough about the bill. What I know is Bernie and 76 other democrats voted for it. Autumn Dec 2015 #84

Not an acceptable excuse lunamagica Dec 2015 #85

I'm not giving you an excuse. Feel free to dislike Bernie all you want, I don't consider Autumn Dec 2015 #86

Bullshit. The amendment in question had nothing to do with these murders. Vattel Dec 2015 #113

Link? And why did you omit it? merrily Dec 2015 #119

Link. I thought I had included it lunamagica Dec 2015 #125

This message was self-deleted by its author Autumn Dec 2015 #134

very good catch treestar Dec 2015 #38

Besides who cares about the other Dems voting to Protect the Minute Men.. BS is the one who's Cha Dec 2015 #117

Laugh it up about voting to protect minutemen, a hate group. Hurts me ... Not. seabeyond Dec 2015 #13

Murderers. Child killers. Hilarious. eom lunamagica Dec 2015 #65

That we can decry one vote and shrug our shoulders with another vote is oddity itself. Nt. seabeyond Dec 2015 #69

Post removed Post removed Dec 2015 #14

Yes he's anti-immigrant, pro-gun, racist, hates women and believes cute kittens should be deported Armstead Dec 2015 #17

Weak way of arguing and does not deny he voted to protect minutemen. That is the discussion. Nt. seabeyond Dec 2015 #18

Only way to respond to the blanket crap of some people Armstead Dec 2015 #22

It was a vote he made. Like it or not, that is all the OP is. About a vote Sanders made. Nt. seabeyond Dec 2015 #28

It is takling a single, meaningless vote to obscure trhe overall issue of immigration Armstead Dec 2015 #29

Well your ally there is now on vacay yet again and I note you have not managed to respond to my Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #40

Anyone have the jury results that led to that vacay? kath Dec 2015 #67

It was a bullshit hide, and you know it. N FN T MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #78

Sanders NCTraveler Dec 2015 #23

Sanders Armstead Dec 2015 #27

Is seabeyond* the one who has suddenly learned how to use capital letters and punctuation, kath Dec 2015 #64

'suddenly learned how to use capital letters' bigtree Dec 2015 #90

They seem to have their code* to insult me. Isn't that special. I haven't seen you around much. seabeyond Dec 2015 #94

good to see you, too, seabeyond bigtree Dec 2015 #95

Lol * demmiblue Dec 2015 #20

Trying to strike oil in an outhouse pit AgingAmerican Dec 2015 #24

Educating on votes candidates make. We have no problem talking about other candidate votes. seabeyond Dec 2015 #30

I thought we were not supposed to bring up Bernie's record here cosmicone Dec 2015 #25

From the replies, it seems to exactly be the issue. I do not get why we cannot post about candidate seabeyond Dec 2015 #31

You have every right to post it....Just as others have the right to argue with you about it Armstead Dec 2015 #100

Read the thread. They are not talking about the vote, are they? They are talking/insulting me. seabeyond Dec 2015 #102

Well, we all get insulted plenty when we hit nerves Armstead Dec 2015 #104

Some do not see voting for minute men as trivial. Nt. seabeyond Dec 2015 #106

Compared to his overall record it is one small trivial vote Armstead Dec 2015 #109

You and I do not totally agree on how you laid out the argument. But, I am done and I am not seabeyond Dec 2015 #110

Sea didn't get the warning and went ahead and did it.. Bad sea! Cha Dec 2015 #59

shhhh workinclasszero Dec 2015 #75

Undisputed Fact - Keep Calm and Own It Alfresco Dec 2015 #36

76 Democrats also "Voted In Support Of An Immigration Conspiracy Theory" then. Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #37

And yet it is all Hillary's fault that Bush invaded Irag because she riversedge Dec 2015 #98

Kick & highly recommended! William769 Dec 2015 #41

So why do you think Debbie Wasserman-Schultz decided to abstain from voting either way? Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #43

Ahh. Another lameass attempt to smear, bucket o'fail OP. 99Forever Dec 2015 #42

So why did Debbie Wasserman Shultz abstain from such an important vote? Why did so many Democrats Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #45

Sanders immigration reform plan is the best I have ever seen. Vattel Dec 2015 #46

This vote of his hits my community. artislife Dec 2015 #56

That is awesome that those close to you are so involved in helping border children. Vattel Dec 2015 #72

Actually I like O'Malley's the best--his is the most comprehensive ismnotwasm Dec 2015 #58

I think Sanders' plan is much better than Clinton's. I will have to look at O'Malley's plan again. Vattel Dec 2015 #74

Your lack of respect for those you address is noted. Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #48

Again the accusation/insult of unethical. All I did was link an article. seabeyond Dec 2015 #50

Until facts entered into it you were calling this a discussion. You started the thread. Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #57

the 'community?" bigtree Dec 2015 #97

So you jump in to attack me personally without even bothering to address the facts I presented Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #127

yep, you're one of the ones who've 'personally' attacked my friend on this thread bigtree Dec 2015 #135

Be careful what you wish for. As my niece once noted, the wish fairy has no returns window. merrily Dec 2015 #51

One can almost see a pattern there, huh? Scootaloo Dec 2015 #52

K&R. Thank you for this, Seabeyond. Finally this is getting some attention lunamagica Dec 2015 #61

You are welcome. What bothers me is the fact that we are not allowed a conversation seabeyond Dec 2015 #68

So called progressives celebrating that a poster is unable to post. Alerting lunamagica Dec 2015 #70

Rinse ,Cycle, and repeat Truprogressive85 Dec 2015 #76

Mild attacks on Sanders get hidden, really nasty, really personal attacks on YOU are left to stand Number23 Dec 2015 #80

I have noticed that. There also seems to be a little CT going on, too, Number23* seabeyond Dec 2015 #82

Agreed. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #87

I am afraid to post lest I get a hide... DemocratSinceBirth Dec 2015 #88

there's a meanness behind these personal attacks bigtree Dec 2015 #91

We've all been seeing this for months. And the irony is that the nastiest ones are the ones Number23 Dec 2015 #111

I will be so damn glad when the primaries are over. yup. !!! Nt. seabeyond Dec 2015 #112

He's unhinged. nt LexVegas Dec 2015 #83

mouse nuts Hiraeth Dec 2015 #89

Yay! Another false comparison post! blackspade Dec 2015 #101

To inform and discuss why Sanders voted this way. I didn't know he voted for the minutemen. Did you? seabeyond Dec 2015 #103

Was the amendment included in the final legislation? blackspade Dec 2015 #105

I am glad to hear some call it a bad vote. Nt. seabeyond Dec 2015 #107

Bush was invading with or without the IWR. joshcryer Dec 2015 #114

So that is why he pushed so hard for the IWR? blackspade Dec 2015 #120

The IWR opened him up to war crimes. joshcryer Dec 2015 #123

If that makes you feel better about it. blackspade Dec 2015 #124

unfucking believable Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #126

Just as voting for minuteman is irrelevant, or voting to enable pedophiles was not as important seabeyond Dec 2015 #129

you should be ashamed of yourself. You know better. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #132

I am not ashamed of myself, and yes, I do know better. I am at least honest in how seabeyond Dec 2015 #133

Flat out lie. joshcryer Dec 2015 #143

123. The IWR opened him up to war crimes. Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #144

It's not the only thing that opens him up to war crimes. joshcryer Dec 2015 #146

So has bernie ever explained why he voted to protect The Minute Men? Cha Dec 2015 #115

SB, you are one of the few Le Taz Hot Dec 2015 #131

Bernie's response to your attempt at misconstruing him. retrowire Dec 2015 #145