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2016 Postmortem
In reply to the discussion: Even if Bernie Sanders doesn't win the primary, he has given every indication that he will [View all]Jarqui
(10,125 posts)123. "He voted against the resolution when he knew his vote would not make a difference"
That's silly nonsense.
http://www.sanders.senate.gov/video/flashback-rep-bernie-sanders-opposes-iraq-war
Mr. Speaker, in the brief time I have, let me give five reasons why I am opposed to giving the President a blank check to launch a unilateral invasion and occupation of Iraq and why I will vote against this resolution.
One, I have not heard any estimates of how many young American men and women might die in such a war or how many tens of thousands of women and children in Iraq might also be killed. As a caring Nation, we should do everything we can to prevent the horrible suffering that a war will cause. War must be the last recourse in international relations, not the first.
Second, I am deeply concerned about the precedent that a unilateral invasion of Iraq could establish in terms of international law and the role of the United Nations. If President Bush believes that the U.S. can go to war at any time against any nation, what moral or legal objection could our government raise if another country chose to do the same thing?
Third, the United States is now involved in a very difficult war against international terrorism as we learned tragically on September 11. We are opposed by Osama bin Laden and religious fanatics who are prepared to engage in a kind of warfare that we have never experienced before. I agree with Brent Scowcroft, Republican former National Security Advisor for President George Bush, Sr., who stated, ``An attack on Iraq at this time would seriously jeopardize, if not destroy, the global counterterrorist campaign we have undertaken.''
Fourth, at a time when this country has a $6 trillion national debt and a growing deficit, we should be clear that a war and a long-term American occupation of Iraq could be extremely expensive.
Fifth, I am concerned about the problems of so-called unintended consequences. Who will govern Iraq when Saddam Hussein is removed and what role will the U.S. play in ensuing a civil war that could develop in that country? Will moderate governments in the region who have large Islamic fundamentalist populations be overthrown and replaced by extremists? Will the bloody conflict between Israel and the Palestinian Authority be exacerbated? And these are just a few of the questions that remain unanswered.
He went on record BEFORE the vote and spoke out clearly against the war, providing five reasons why he would not support it. And when we examine the reasons he gave, he was right or proven right on ALL of them. That's not voting no just for fun because it doesn't matter. That is taking a stand and firmly going on the record.
Your candidate, who spoke with shortsightedness and naivety on why she supported the legislation, has admitted it was a mistake because unlike Sanders, she was horribly wrong. Her judgement in the heat of the moment was sorely lacking.
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Even if Bernie Sanders doesn't win the primary, he has given every indication that he will [View all]
Fast Walker 52
Dec 2015
OP
All true, but another real telling point that for me makes her complicit is that instead
Dustlawyer
Dec 2015
#49
Yeah, you're most justified in "shooting the messengers" if they are william safire and jonah efn
Cha
Dec 2015
#98
Do you always use virulently right-wing sources to "prove" your points, or is this a one-off?
MADem
Dec 2015
#67
He took a golden parachute six years ago--all you've got are Republicans and retirees.
MADem
Dec 2015
#90
Nope. What we really have is the lame hope that we'd fall for someone shooting the messenger
Jarqui
Dec 2015
#93
The TOS only says Jarqui must not be a wingnut neo-con freak / right-winger; not his sources...
JonLeibowitz
Dec 2015
#104
I judge people by the company they keep. If a person keeps using right wing sources to
MADem
Dec 2015
#105
Ah, the NYT, the 'Grey Lady.' Ever since they hired Judy Miller, I don't think much of them, either!
MADem
Dec 2015
#108
Yeah they have fallen quite a bit in repute. I try to be a lot more careful to look at facts,
JonLeibowitz
Dec 2015
#111
"He voted against the resolution when he knew his vote would not make a difference"
Jarqui
Dec 2015
#123
Nothing, but nothing will keep me from voting for Hillary in the General Election!
onehandle
Dec 2015
#2
We have our own minds. My candidate doesn't cast my vote in the booth. I'll cast my vote for the
Ed Suspicious
Dec 2015
#3
My support for Bernie is about a lot of things, most especially his track record of fighting for the
Ed Suspicious
Dec 2015
#74
and if Bernie doesn't get the nomination and his supporters fail to heed his endorsement
onenote
Dec 2015
#77
The party has gone out of its way to insult liberals and Sanders supporters, and the hillarians
Doctor_J
Dec 2015
#11
To be honest as a Hillary Supporter I have not felt the olive branch and have been hit
Thinkingabout
Dec 2015
#43
One person, one vote. Our vote is ours to cast, not Bernie's. No one tells another person
in_cog_ni_to
Dec 2015
#12
I don't like her, she's fake, insincere, and a liar, but I will vote for her. She's
JRLeft
Dec 2015
#14
Let's not pretend Hillary winning is a good thing, she's bad for America, because
JRLeft
Dec 2015
#27
People often say things in the heat of the moment that they may not totally mean,
Blue_In_AK
Dec 2015
#32
Anyone who says they won't vote for the Democratic candidate in the general....
mac2766
Dec 2015
#38
The people who will or won't vote for the nominee on DU are irrelivent in the grand scheme.
RichVRichV
Dec 2015
#113
sure... but if you respect his ideas greatly, won't you respect his endorsement?
Fast Walker 52
Dec 2015
#71
If we're playing some sort of non-sequitur game, I'll point out that it's partly cloudy outside
onenote
Dec 2015
#88
It's not a non-sequitur. It demonstrates your claim about total numbers is not actually true.
jeff47
Dec 2015
#89
a number of Hillary supporters have said that they would never support Bernie
Douglas Carpenter
Dec 2015
#95
People should vote their conscience and not merely how others tell them to vote
aikoaiko
Dec 2015
#102
I think Hillary supporter comments, DWS and Hillary's own snark may have a lot to do with it. nt
Live and Learn
Dec 2015
#103
This is larger than Bernie. That's why even if he doesn't win his message will continue.
liberal_at_heart
Dec 2015
#112
Being a bernie supporter has nothing to do with the fact that I will NOT vote for hill
bowens43
Dec 2015
#126