2016 Postmortem

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)

27. "Middle class" is different from median (middle) income.

Mon Dec 28, 2015, 01:44 PM

Dec 2015

Class is a multi-strata category that encompasses income, education, professional status, home ownership, and other markers of standard of living. It's not a well-defined term in the U.S. Income on the other hand is a single stat, easily calculated using hard data.

So "middle class" status may require less than the median national income in some areas and more in others; people who consider themselves middle class may in fact earn far less than the median income or far more.

I get annoyed when pols use "class" to describe people, particularly when they use the term to describe low income and poor people as the "lower class."

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$250,000 a Year Is Not Middle Class [View all] LiberalArkie Dec 2015 OP

Um,...yes it is. eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #1

Uh, no.... daleanime Dec 2015 #3

So what is? NT Adrahil Dec 2015 #203

Around $52,000 is the medium average income in America..... daleanime Dec 2015 #205

But the average in the US is NOT middle class, it is barely scraping by, one paycheck away from tblue37 Dec 2015 #208

According to what metrics? cali Dec 2015 #4

Good point, cali. forest444 Dec 2015 #73

look at median income by state passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #93

Statistically speaking, you're absolutely right. forest444 Dec 2015 #101

He never said median income is a fair income passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #139

Hear, hear. forest444 Dec 2015 #145

Happy New Year and good fortune to you too! passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #147

i think @250000 is upper middle class MariaThinks Dec 2015 #136

And I think Santa Clause is real passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #142

i'm certainly not rich and i make far more than that. MariaThinks Dec 2015 #144

You are to most here. Indydem Dec 2015 #193

ha ha - i support a lot of charities MariaThinks Dec 2015 #196

Doesn't matter. Indydem Dec 2015 #197

Generalize much? MariaThinks Dec 2015 #249

Total Misunderstanding Indydem Dec 2015 #265

ok MariaThinks Dec 2015 #270

And I have a black friend passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #232

and how will we get there without charities? MariaThinks Dec 2015 #250

Seriously passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #251

100% capitalism does not produce a good and fair society MariaThinks Dec 2015 #254

So what's your number? Adrahil Dec 2015 #260

I don't have a "number." Indydem Dec 2015 #264

Thanks. Nt Adrahil Dec 2015 #269

We need more people like you here passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #230

Statistics? MoonchildCA Dec 2015 #201

I'm not the one saying it's middle class passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #231

$250,000 is about 5 times the U.S. Median income Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #202

Um,.. it's not 840high Dec 2015 #5

No, it simply is not. I did these calculations last time hill2016 made such a claim. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #12

Add a third kid. What about transportation expenses? MADem Dec 2015 #155

I was leaving disposable income to cover those things. JonLeibowitz Dec 2015 #158

"No one gets a vacation" Bettie Dec 2015 #175

That is reality for poor and working poor--it's not reality for "middle class" families. MADem Dec 2015 #183

Thank you hill2016 Dec 2015 #272

The best number I have seen for median income is $134,000 Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #204

If $250,000 is middle class income, where does my $1645 a month income put me? LiberalArkie Dec 2015 #14

You and I are both bum class! Helen Borg Dec 2015 #55

Somewhere between: snort Dec 2015 #56

Below the poverty line. AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #85

Nope single, way too wealthy for anything but medicare. LiberalArkie Dec 2015 #89

And that's a huge problem as well. AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #98

Their feeling come from the people they socialize with. I just can't see Hill catching a ride from LiberalArkie Dec 2015 #108

Before or after taxes? whathehell Dec 2015 #131

points to the can o beans hanging over the fire under the bridge w0nderer Dec 2015 #168

Working poor, or flat-out poor--depending on where you live. nt MADem Dec 2015 #184

Working class. NT Adrahil Dec 2015 #261

How do you feel about the Kaiser Family Foundation and enlightenment Dec 2015 #15

Errr, no it is not. Not even close. -none Dec 2015 #19

No, its not. darkangel218 Dec 2015 #26

where? annabanana Dec 2015 #36

That is where I live...and that would be middle class there. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #44

"Lucky" is right.. annabanana Dec 2015 #48

Well said! alcina Dec 2015 #59

250k is what, like 20k a month? zeemike Dec 2015 #62

$20K per month assumes no taxes. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #66

A small one bedroom walk up with no real kitchen in Alphabet City costs $3000/mo, more by now. cui bono Dec 2015 #189

Paupers dont get to live in the palace. PowerToThePeople Dec 2015 #198

Oh please. The median income in NYC is $60,000. A New Yorker who earns 250K a year is in the top Chakab Dec 2015 #75

This is my neighborhood. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #99

Like I wrote in my response to another poster, the conventional definition of "middle class" is so Chakab Dec 2015 #111

Yes whathehell Dec 2015 #134

Once you hit rich, it's not a gradual climb any more passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #236

I certainly agree that "middle class" isn't what it used to be.. whathehell Dec 2015 #247

I so agree with you passiveporcupine Dec 2015 #266

I think there is another dynamic at play. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #138

Swing and a miss ornotna Dec 2015 #40

250K puts a person in the top 2% of earners, not in the middle of earners. Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #118

And right at the very top of upper middle class in any large US city. eom MohRokTah Dec 2015 #174

$250,000 is twice the highest median number I have seen Kelvin Mace Dec 2015 #206

$250K is the very pinnacle of upper middle class. MohRokTah Dec 2015 #258

Obvious troll is more obvious than ever. Goodbye Pretzell_warrior aka functioning_cog. Electric Monk Dec 2015 #163

Duh! Hillery is living in a bubble & out of touch just like... Rockyj Dec 2015 #188

Hilarious that people who cannot fathom basic polling numbers wildeyed Dec 2015 #256

I would love to be middle class! bigwillq Dec 2015 #2

I guess I'm dirt poor then lol 840high Dec 2015 #6

So anyone making less that 250k is ? Truprogressive85 Dec 2015 #7

Thank you! oldandhappy Dec 2015 #8

You likely don't understand... Sancho Dec 2015 #9

If the net income on your small business or farm is $250,000, you are doing quite well. Luminous Animal Dec 2015 #13

Yes quite well....middle class. You are right. yeoman6987 Dec 2015 #18

Hahaha! $250,000 puts one in the top 3% Luminous Animal Dec 2015 #21

yes but we need to start with the top 1%(actually the top .01% but that gets confusing) questionseverything Dec 2015 #161

That not what that poster stated ... He/She mentioned revenue, not net revenue. 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #33

Aren't we talking about personal income? cali Dec 2015 #24

Small business owner KittyWampus Dec 2015 #31

Small business pays the taxes that big business doesn't have to, this is why small business is being Dont call me Shirley Dec 2015 #46

Income taxes are paid on net revenue, not gross revenue. jeff47 Dec 2015 #51

Have you run a family farm? Sancho Dec 2015 #149

You couldn't be more WRONG. bvar22 Dec 2015 #159

Haha. You didn't answer the question!! Sancho Dec 2015 #171

What do you hope to accomplish with an immature response like that? cui bono Dec 2015 #190

I actually live on a small farm in a very rural part of Arkansas. bvar22 Dec 2015 #217

Sorry you're wrong Sancho Dec 2015 #233

Wait...WHAT? ... I'm wrong? bvar22 Dec 2015 #239

Then if you want that farm to pay more in taxes, vote for Bernie. Sancho Dec 2015 #253

Again, you couldn't be more WRONG: bvar22 Dec 2015 #248

I'm not talking about estate taxes of course... Sancho Dec 2015 #252

I've run a family business, which is basically the same thing when it comes to taxes. jeff47 Dec 2015 #186

Ridiculous Republican strawman. If a small business is generating $250,000 in net income before tax, Chakab Dec 2015 #77

In a country in which some millionaires consider themselves "dead broke" it is. Tierra_y_Libertad Dec 2015 #10

Now, see, this is where HRC lost me--the final straw, if you will. chervilant Dec 2015 #60

PLUSlolONE! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #78

The 67% mark for household income is about $80K Recursion Dec 2015 #11

He must not live in the Bay Area. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #16

And to live in West Little Rock, Ar, you would need a household income of over 1 million. So? LiberalArkie Dec 2015 #17

So? Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #23

So then, what you are saying, is that we should leave it to millionaires? RandySF Dec 2015 #42

LOL. You're the "socialist" who defends the interests of the top 3%! nt Romulox Dec 2015 #102

No. Try reading comprehension. I posted a chart down thread Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #106

You failed to comprehend your own chart. You're carrying water for the rich. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #110

Blah blah blah. Try moving here for a job, and get back to us. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #116

I understand. You live amongst the wealthy, you naturally want to *serve* their interests. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #119

Ha! (nt) Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #121

So long as we recognize your schtick as a comedy routine. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #126

No, we recognize that yours is that 50k a year Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #128

It's "middle class" in America. If that galls, then don't carry water for the wealthy who made it Romulox Dec 2015 #129

It's closer to poverty now, for a household, for the most populated Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #132

HA! YOUR candidate is against the "Fight for $15". Romulox Dec 2015 #133

No she isn't. She's for $15 and higher for areas like mine. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #135

What a joke. I live in one of the poorest rural areas of the country Karma13612 Dec 2015 #166

I actually happen to agree with you. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #169

oops! OK, I understand now. peace! eom Karma13612 Dec 2015 #173

Unfortunately, she's not telling the truth. The "Fight for $15" doesn't include a sliding scale. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #215

That's not what the "Fight for $15" is about. It doesn't include a sliding scale. Romulox Dec 2015 #216

Hurr Durr Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #219

When facts aren't on your side, I suppose your response is all that remains. Romulox Dec 2015 #220

You aren't a socialist anything, so I put forth the amount of energy your output entails. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #221

LOL. Neither are you--you support the obscenely wealthy friend of Wall Street over the people. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #222

Mmm, I'm going to love all the tears during the next 8 years of President Hillary. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #224

Starry 2012: "Complete emancipation of women is possible only under Socialism." Romulox Dec 2015 #225

Romulux--total output to support working class issues over all his years at DU Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #226

Is that supposed to be a coherent defense to your ideological about face? Romulox Dec 2015 #227

Awwww. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #228

This is sad. I feel bad for you. But at least the jig is up on your phony "socialist" blog. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #229

((hugs)) Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #234

((yuck)). nt Romulox Dec 2015 #235

Honestly, you need to give it up. demmiblue Dec 2015 #237

Agreed. Still the conservative "evolution" of that poster is jarring, given her previous posturing. Romulox Dec 2015 #240

Meh, it was probably just a fad/phase for her. demmiblue Dec 2015 #241

Agreed again. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #242

Sub-replies are kind of rude, demmiblue. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #243

And Hillary STILL is against the "Fight for $15", despite your attempted subject change! nt Romulox Dec 2015 #223

some people are so silly SoLeftIAmRight Dec 2015 #20

So no tax increase for me ... GOOD! NurseJackie Dec 2015 #22

Would you trade a tax increase that is more than offset by lower healthcare costs? nt Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #143

Not gonna happen. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #150

Wow - you are so smart. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #152

Sorry. I'm not inclined to flatter you by answering an absurd hypothetical. NurseJackie Dec 2015 #157

Spoken like a lawyer - obfuscating and triangulating. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #165

LOL NurseJackie Dec 2015 #172

I have seen your general style before. Lucky Luciano Dec 2015 #176

No one likes a bragger. n/t tazkcmo Dec 2015 #179

I'm still waiting for someone to ask Hillary how much a loaf of bread costs. Scuba Dec 2015 #25

Why don't you? brooklynite Dec 2015 #28

Who told you Bernie doesn't interact with the audience? That person lied to you. Scuba Dec 2015 #35

Nobody told me... brooklynite Dec 2015 #39

Well, I'm sure you'll want to edit or delete rather than spreading untruths. Scuba Dec 2015 #41

It's not untrue until I see evidence to the contrary. brooklynite Dec 2015 #47

Ok, I have not seen evidence proving you aren't a Colombian drug lord. jeff47 Dec 2015 #52

I cited the evidence I had available... brooklynite Dec 2015 #64

As did I. jeff47 Dec 2015 #67

Feel free to throw insults... brooklynite Dec 2015 #70

I'm very disappointed in you, brooklynite. Enthusiast Dec 2015 #82

"It's not untrue until I see evidence to the contrary." ---brooklynite, post 47 bvar22 Dec 2015 #268

in Iowa he took questions and comments from audience Jackilope Dec 2015 #58

Huge +1! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #84

"Middle class" is different from median (middle) income. Gormy Cuss Dec 2015 #27

It's a completely meaningless classification given its expansive nature. Chakab Dec 2015 #91

Well yes, that's my point. Gormy Cuss Dec 2015 #182

The top 3% of something cannot be described as the "middle", regardless of attempted misdirection. Romulox Dec 2015 #113

At 250K in high cost parts of the country, that's well below the "top 3% of earners. Gormy Cuss Dec 2015 #181

Oh, wait, Sanders has come to Hillary's position in raising FICA taxes on those Thinkingabout Dec 2015 #29

Bernie has long been for raising the FICA cap, been listening to Brunch with Bernie for a long time. Dont call me Shirley Dec 2015 #50

Yes, he was going to remove the max cap, now he is going for the over $250,000 Thinkingabout Dec 2015 #79

I'll have to research that. Dont call me Shirley Dec 2015 #141

Raising the FICA cap is seen as a fix to social security. joshcryer Dec 2015 #271

How does "shrinking" of the middle class fit in to the formula elias7 Dec 2015 #30

But for accuracy's sake; didn't, HRC promise not to raise taxes on the ... 1StrongBlackMan Dec 2015 #32

Your re-definition of "working class' truebluegreen Dec 2015 #153

Middle Class is a range pandr32 Dec 2015 #34

It is if you live on the East or West Coasts RandySF Dec 2015 #37

No it is not. 250K is top 2% or 3% of earners, no matter where you are. The fact that your Bluenorthwest Dec 2015 #122

It's four times median household income in San Francisco Recursion Dec 2015 #151

I am a worker living just above the poverty line in San Francisco. Hell Hath No Fury Dec 2015 #213

Yeah it is. nt LexVegas Dec 2015 #38

I know auto workers who bust their asses with overtime to make $250k RandySF Dec 2015 #43

Bullshit. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2015 #63

My cousin and my dad's neighbor, Einstein. RandySF Dec 2015 #72

Yep. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2015 #112

yes it is. the life that $250 k will buy you is what a factory worker or mopinko Dec 2015 #45

The disconnect is strong with this one. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2015 #65

vacation homes in my day were not full blown second homes. mopinko Dec 2015 #88

My parents never had a vacation home. ForgoTheConsequence Dec 2015 #114

maybe your parents werent really middle class, then. mopinko Dec 2015 #123

What you're describing is not middle class starroute Dec 2015 #69

This is the problem with the expansive definition of "middle class" that's used in the US. The vast Chakab Dec 2015 #87

that would be my point. mopinko Dec 2015 #90

Then we have a serious semantics problem in the US because the "middle class" is considerably Chakab Dec 2015 #94

that would be the crux of the bernie sanders campaign. mopinko Dec 2015 #96

I live like that and earn far less than 250k whatthehey Dec 2015 #209

What do you expect from someone owned and operated by The Oligarchy? Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #49

good gawd but there's a lot of bullshit to wade through going down this thread. Amimnoch Dec 2015 #53

Your Wikipedia link doesn't say what you think it does muriel_volestrangler Dec 2015 #160

Median income and middle class are not Warren Stupidity Dec 2015 #54

Nice way to make the vast majority of Americans feel like worthless bums! Helen Borg Dec 2015 #57

YOUNG AMERICANS SHOCKED TO LEARN OF HILLARY�S MULTIPLE MANSIONS tecelote Dec 2015 #61

AUTOMATED MESSAGE: Results of your Jury Service Capt. Obvious Dec 2015 #76

Whoa! That is a crappy site. tecelote Dec 2015 #164

$250k is middle class Lazy Daisy Dec 2015 #68

Bingo. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #74

It's a matter of basic math, not wish fulfillment. $50k is the *reality* of Middle Class. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #100

There ARE rural parts of the country where $50K goes a LONG way. bvar22 Dec 2015 #238

Your suggestion is nonsense Lazy Daisy Dec 2015 #245

Probably upper middle class. Its poor compared to top 1% and especially top .1% ErikJ Dec 2015 #71

HRC makes more than that for some speeches. guillaumeb Dec 2015 #80

Personally Old Codger Dec 2015 #81

It's what the middle class would be, if wages/purchasing power kept up with inflation. AtheistCrusader Dec 2015 #83

$250,000 a Year Is Not Middle Class! Enthusiast Dec 2015 #86

Sounds very comfortable to me too treestar Dec 2015 #92

I'm Not Surprised gordyfl Dec 2015 #95

Depends on where you live. In some major urban areas, this is the high end of middle class McCamy Taylor Dec 2015 #97

LOL at the people who think that the mathematical middle is subject to debate. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #103

How Much the Middle Class Makes � in the Bay Area and 28 U.S. Cities Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #104

Your own chart says that $171k/year is top 25% percent in San Francisco. Try again. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #109

In 2013. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #115

Why did *you* offer the chart if it utterly invalidated your position, then? nt Romulox Dec 2015 #117

I explained in my opening. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #120

It's not middle class, as your chart demonstrates. What point you thought you were making... Romulox Dec 2015 #125

The same point several others are making in this thread. Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #127

The "poor little rich folk" argument. It's a bad one. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #130

No - but it's a clever demarcation point whatthehey Dec 2015 #105

Bingo anigbrowl Dec 2015 #156

you explained that well questionseverything Dec 2015 #162

Wow - I'm a peasant and I didn't even know it. Vinca Dec 2015 #107

Fuzzy Math shadowmayor Dec 2015 #124

which is in itself fuzzy math whatthehey Dec 2015 #137

Full time shadowmayor Dec 2015 #148

Yes - for a reeason whatthehey Dec 2015 #195

If I made 250k a year PowerToThePeople Dec 2015 #140

I guess Bernie Sanders disagrees with you... brooklynite Dec 2015 #146

They don't care. MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #180

It's the "upper end" of middle class, particularly with a two income family in large cities. MADem Dec 2015 #154

Just proves that Hillary is clueless as a republican when it comes to income inequality Ferd Berfel Dec 2015 #167

Uh, yes it is. In many large cities... MeNMyVolt Dec 2015 #170

Wow, it appears a great many well off people post here Dragonfli Dec 2015 #177

250k? tazkcmo Dec 2015 #178

Huge K & R !!! WillyT Dec 2015 #185

Median income has never defined middle class. The true Middle Class is the professional class and Todays_Illusion Dec 2015 #187

Good post. wildeyed Dec 2015 #257

It's the same threshold Obama used BainsBane Dec 2015 #191

There is a schism in the party My Good Babushka Dec 2015 #192

+1 demmiblue Dec 2015 #194

So sad, but horribly true harun Dec 2015 #200

Sure, let's go ahead and declare upper-middle class folks the enemy too.... Adrahil Dec 2015 #262

If you don't hold your party accountable for its legislation My Good Babushka Dec 2015 #263

If you live in a major population center, especially the East Coast, like Boston, NY, Philly, DC. harun Dec 2015 #199

Actually, it kinda is. What people are calling "middle class" these days is simply tblue37 Dec 2015 #207

^^Must Read^^ Starry Messenger Dec 2015 #210

Thanks. nt tblue37 Dec 2015 #211

This is exactly the point I was making upthread. MADem Dec 2015 #214

Unless you show income distribution in the pertinent years you compare, this means nothing. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #218

Income distribution is not relevant to the argument. whathehell Dec 2015 #259

Of course it isn't. Because it invalidates the entire post. LOL. nt Romulox Dec 2015 #267

In light of these statistics, My Good Babushka Dec 2015 #244

Yet we still have tons of people who still don't understand samplegirl Dec 2015 #212

250k is the top 2% in my county madville Dec 2015 #246

upper middle, especially in some areas for the country. Nice income, if spent wisely. Hiraeth Dec 2015 #255