For those who think I rant about the patriarchy and misogyny too much

[Jim Lane]

54. You say, "'Yes, but...' is ALWAYS the wrong answer to misogyny." My answer is "Yes, but...."

The men described in the OP are self-confident and unafraid of going for what they want (which is good). They carry that too far, to the point of being self-absorbed, arrogant, and disdainful of the feelings and even of the rights of the woman involved (which, obviously, is bad).

My perspective is that of a heterosexual man who, in the 1970s, misinterpreted feminism and drew the wrong conclusions. I would never have dreamed of acting like the men in the OP. That kind of behavior was, and is, just inconceivable to me. My mistake was that I went too far in the opposite direction. I wouldn't have articulated it this way at the time, but in hindsight, I see that I felt that any action showing sexual interest in a woman was, at best, highly suspect. I agree with WingDinger when he writes:

In fact, I was hobbled by this belief. I feel that anything you do or say to a girl/woman, should be something you would not be ashamed to say in front of her mother and father.

The challenge for men is to be appropriately aggressive without being obnoxious, insulting, threatening, etc. Thanks to the women's movement, there are now many more men (maybe even, if we're lucky, most men) who at least recognize that what the men in the OP did was wrong.

So my "Yes" is to your condemnation of misogyny. My "but" is a recognition that we can't throw the baby out with the bathwater -- we throw out the misogyny but keep the self-confidence and the willingness to take risks.