History of Feminism

WingDinger

(3,690 posts)

69. Ignoring the roots of behaviour, does nothing to improve your odds of changing the status quo.

Mon Jun 25, 2012, 02:19 PM

Jun 2012

And understanding, is not a blanket endorsement. I am not nor will I ever claim, boys will be boys. That is why I endorse your emphasis on teaching young boys better manners. We have overcame many boorish beliefs from history. But, it takes a strategy that considers nature. To ignore nature is folly. It is like separating us from animals, in the same ignorant fashion as God making Eve from Adam's rib.
Man is an animal. And not some perfectable creation out of whole cloth.

We have all the baggage of our predecessors.

I understand it is a burden to have to empathize with those you disagree with. And people shouldnt do many things. But, that is the plight of social animals. the same arguments would be waged against us liberals. Us persons that have a hard time providing all our needs should be told to buck the fuck up. It doesnt work so well in reality.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

178 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Men Will Never Truly Understand A Day In The Life of Women. But Shouldn�t We Try? [View all] seabeyond Jun 2012 OP

I love being 50. It means I don't get nearly as much of this crap as I used to. LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #1

It is all about dominance...The great apes might use physical methods to intimidate and dominate... hlthe2b Jun 2012 #3

hey... a man wrote the article. i love this man. he so clearly thinks about it seabeyond Jun 2012 #4

Why do we have to clarify always? LOLOL hlthe2b Jun 2012 #5

Yes...It's a great toon and it's GREAT that it's by a man...Who knows? whathehell Jun 2012 #95

the article is written by a man. i dont know who made the toon. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #97

I know...Excellent!..n/t whathehell Jun 2012 #107

"appreciative for those who take the time to call other men on this behavior " sufrommich Jun 2012 #8

And reminding us of 'our place'... redqueen Jun 2012 #6

How do you feel about Spice Girls, GIRL POWER? WingDinger Jun 2012 #19

social conditioning from the day we are born seabeyond Jun 2012 #20

I think those examples underscore a societal problem... Girls from an early age so often learn that hlthe2b Jun 2012 #23

Great post, thank you! LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #48

Traitors is harsh. Sellouts works for me. redqueen Jun 2012 #24

I don't think you can really hold sufrommich Jun 2012 #25

Madison Avenue CREATES very few needs. They simply exploit human nature. WingDinger Jun 2012 #27

it is learned. and it is learned thru privilege. it is not accepted when learned racism seabeyond Jun 2012 #30

Sorry, saw the comic strip. I will. WingDinger Jun 2012 #32

Spot on, sea. nt redqueen Jun 2012 #33

How about Madison Avenue creates need based sufrommich Jun 2012 #34

"perpetuating stereotypes based on those they are willing to exploit" nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #36

Is that a question? sufrommich Jun 2012 #39

it is true. and makes perfect sense seabeyond Jun 2012 #42

I think they do create needs. Hatchling Jun 2012 #105

I found out that all I really needed was to pay my rent and utilities seabeyond Jun 2012 #106

Men are damaged by women in the current system, no doubt! You bring up a good example! LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #49

I really do not like women who play up Tumbulu Jun 2012 #102

All humans play up their sexual attractiveness. sufrommich Jun 2012 #111

i get the part of not playing games. growing up, i always saw a lose situation when games were a seabeyond Jun 2012 #112

i was thinking about this story seabeyond Jun 2012 #113

Well Sea,I think that's called "liking to be sufrommich Jun 2012 #115

i can go back to the 70's seabeyond Jun 2012 #118

Oh yeah, I remember it well. nt sufrommich Jun 2012 #120

Good point- but not all humans play up their sexuality Tumbulu Jun 2012 #144

that is the thing. it was a forced role alwyas, before and how insulting was it. seabeyond Jun 2012 #146

Attention and harassment are two different things. redqueen Jun 2012 #114

Redqueen, I think this should be a learning sufrommich Jun 2012 #116

thank you. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #119

I get so depressed. redqueen Jun 2012 #121

I know it's depressing, but I also know sufrommich Jun 2012 #123

I thought that's what I was doing. redqueen Jun 2012 #125

I think that all of you have been perfectly fine- Tumbulu Jun 2012 #136

It's not shock over power, redqueen Jun 2012 #139

but, i think that is the huge point that we gave up on our daughters. seabeyond Jun 2012 #141

But there very much is reward. redqueen Jun 2012 #145

ultimately, i dont believe so. seabeyond Jun 2012 #147

Yes yes yes, re: long term vs. short term, redqueen Jun 2012 #149

you cant seabeyond Jun 2012 #151

... redqueen Jun 2012 #155

i have been thinking about this, a lot seabeyond Jun 2012 #158

you are right. it is like what i read in a thread with cupp..... seabeyond Jun 2012 #117

That is a very good point. redqueen Jun 2012 #122

You are correct that it is always the abusers fault Tumbulu Jun 2012 #148

Just the pornification of society. redqueen Jun 2012 #150

this is the conversation seabeyond Jun 2012 #152

good points (nt) Tumbulu Jun 2012 #153

I apologize for being terse in my first response. redqueen Jun 2012 #124

.... sufrommich Jun 2012 #126

lol. yes... i hear ya. seabeyond Jun 2012 #127

I am sorry for setting off a trigger for you Tumbulu Jun 2012 #137

...... sufrommich Jun 2012 #138

Thank you, so much. redqueen Jun 2012 #140

demonizing the very desperate who turn to prostitution to make ends meet seabeyond Jun 2012 #143

Excellent points and you are correct Tumbulu Jun 2012 #154

palin absolutely used her sexuality to get a fuckin vote. you are absolutely right. seabeyond Jun 2012 #142

Same here, that invisibility cloak is a wonderful thing Warpy Jun 2012 #77

I love being 60 for the same reason. God, how I used to hate that shit! I never felt like a Nay Jun 2012 #84

Me too!...When I was "young and cute" I got barraged with ALL of the above all the time whathehell Jun 2012 #94

55 and I still get honks and wolf whistles Skittles Jun 2012 #101

Thank you for your thoughtfulness! snot Jun 2012 #2

Excellent cartoon and article. sufrommich Jun 2012 #7

another part of the problem is conditioning girls/women to just take that shit Kali Jun 2012 #9

The problem is that a lot of this aggression sufrommich Jun 2012 #10

lol... you are right on. so, we have to make damn sure we teach our girls. that is not their role seabeyond Jun 2012 #13

my 13 yr old niece and friend went to dinner with my 45 yr old woman friend. a waiter seabeyond Jun 2012 #11

+1. I put up with so much crap when I was a young woman that I really should not have. LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #12

i did, too. we all did. you are right. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #14

+1 redqueen Jun 2012 #16

Absolutely... we all did. hlthe2b Jun 2012 #18

If that happened as described, that was sexual assault... hlthe2b Jun 2012 #15

i was so mad and disappointed in this woman. i also know that she lives her life this way seabeyond Jun 2012 #17

a waiter in a restaurant?!!?? Kali Jun 2012 #21

exactly. seabeyond Jun 2012 #22

Oh wow..That is horrible!...I would have taken that guys ass apart, especially with his manager! whathehell Jun 2012 #130

ya. i had the same issue. kinda harsh with her. seabeyond Jun 2012 #132

Interesting. whathehell Jun 2012 #133

isnt that seabeyond Jun 2012 #134

When I was younger I always got the "Smile. It can't be all bad" prole_for_peace Jun 2012 #26

so, my thought. since most all us women reacted in this manner to the "Smile. It can't be all bad" seabeyond Jun 2012 #28

WHen men are still young and beautiful, they get that too. WingDinger Jun 2012 #51

really? i had never heard that. now, that is interesting. hm. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #52

It is understandable that women would instantly think it is , like most else, a hit. WingDinger Jun 2012 #54

attempting to get them into mating position seabeyond Jun 2012 #55

they really said smile? i am thinking about this now. i can see a ... life isnt so bad seabeyond Jun 2012 #53

Wow, I didn't know that happened to men, too? What makes me think it's about LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #56

Our faces droop and sag, we get slack as we age. WingDinger Jun 2012 #57

I have actually asked the men in my life if some stranger ever told them to "smile" -- they looked Nay Jun 2012 #91

Either way, I'm relieved to be left alone! :) LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #96

But this was only said to me by men prole_for_peace Jun 2012 #60

Older men think that they are cute, and unthreatening. They are allowed SOMe leering and approaches WingDinger Jun 2012 #61

I have never in my entire life had the thought that I wish someone else would smile (or have any LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #62

THATS WHY YOU ARE A LIBERAL. WingDinger Jun 2012 #63

me either. not my place to out of the blue, tell another to feel something, in anyway... lol. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #65

Older men think that they are cute, are allowed SOMe leering seabeyond Jun 2012 #64

Yes, older men SHOULD be schooled on not being creepy. WingDinger Jun 2012 #67

creepy older men will change when enough of the peers frown on intrusive stupidity. seabeyond Jun 2012 #68

That is so true, I've seen it time and time again, men only listen to other men, not always women. LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #80

"am I supposed to look like a grinning idiot all day" sufrommich Jun 2012 #29

"Why yes,yes you are. " bwah hahahaha. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #31

I surely hope that you are smiling as you say that... hlthe2b Jun 2012 #70

Indeed, it is the point. Your face exists to make the background of men's lives enjoyable; Nay Jun 2012 #93

Smiling makes you look prettier for them. redqueen Jun 2012 #35

or... make the girl/women appear approachable or receptive, possibly seabeyond Jun 2012 #37

Why would that matter to them though? redqueen Jun 2012 #38

It has always annoyed me too, but I do think, especially with older men, it is hlthe2b Jun 2012 #40

But if you perceive a loved one feels unhappy, do you just command them to smile? redqueen Jun 2012 #41

If they knew the girl, yes... I agree sometimes it is a boorish comment, other times just inept. hlthe2b Jun 2012 #44

I get it now, for non strangers who are older. redqueen Jun 2012 #46

well, then, they are hitting on you. tell them seabeyond Jun 2012 #47

but seabeyond Jun 2012 #45

when they perceive a young girl's unhappiness seabeyond Jun 2012 #43

Great post, thank you! Smiling also makes us look more submissive and less threatening to them. LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #50

Media has some to do with this. Watch the stupid grins when those on MSNBC are introduced. WingDinger Jun 2012 #58

That's really interesting, thanks! LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #59

it is, and it isnt. i am having an issue with these lines cause it is sounding like evolutionary seabeyond Jun 2012 #66

Ignoring the roots of behaviour, does nothing to improve your odds of changing the status quo. WingDinger Jun 2012 #69

the new evolutionary psychology is guess and story telling put out as fact and ignore conditioning seabeyond Jun 2012 #71

In this instance, the story is patriarchially empathetic. WingDinger Jun 2012 #72

Your assumption is that Feminism is so obviously correct, and gentile, seabeyond Jun 2012 #73

"in the instance we are talking, men listen to men" WingDinger Jun 2012 #74

so, i am gonna reply to this. but, lets stop here for a moment, please. seabeyond Jun 2012 #75

Better than most of those, even on DU. WingDinger Jun 2012 #76

You have a point here. LiberalLoner Jun 2012 #81

wont find me arguing that it is a particular genders fault or that it is all one gender. seabeyond Jun 2012 #82

It has been PROVEN, that irritation can EASILY be mistaken for sexual attraction. WingDinger Jun 2012 #83

This is PUA bullshit, is what it is. nt redqueen Jun 2012 #85

Study the science. It is clear. WingDinger Jun 2012 #88

Pick Up Artists redqueen Jun 2012 #92

i would have to read it, but, i am seeing all kinds of variables being forced into a perspective seabeyond Jun 2012 #86

Irritation mistaken is not gender specific. WingDinger Jun 2012 #87

when all of history has not allowed a woman the ability to feed her children or receive education seabeyond Jun 2012 #89

Are you familiar with the PUA scene? redqueen Jun 2012 #98

i am. i have spent time reading it. i will find an example to post. it isnt pretty seabeyond Jun 2012 #99

The PUA Scam seabeyond Jun 2012 #100

Yikes- Tumbulu Jun 2012 #104

and the ripples spreads out. this is what the most desperate adn vulnerable men are learning about seabeyond Jun 2012 #110

That list is creeptastic. BlueIris Jun 2012 #108

and this was the least offensive. i dont know why, but somewhere along the way a while ago seabeyond Jun 2012 #109

Wow, those are some seriously messed up humans who are buying into that stuff. Very sad. :( MerryBlooms Jun 2012 #171

you will hear a lot of it, much more subtle all over the place, even here. seabeyond Jun 2012 #172

Quite a grim picture. MerryBlooms Jun 2012 #173

this is what really bothers me. i hear so many meh, about these issues or tell me it is not a big seabeyond Jun 2012 #174

A few of the variables at play as to how much and who would be affected- MerryBlooms Jun 2012 #175

the more you learn about it, the more there is to learn seabeyond Jun 2012 #177

" how can they dismiss it if they are clueless " redqueen Jun 2012 #176

the more i am realizing this happen, even from those that are all about PRO and seabeyond Jun 2012 #178

btw... later i will have to see if i can find anything on the seabeyond Jun 2012 #90

"Alpha Males dont always consider the best for society" PassingFair Jun 2012 #103

people with agendas abuse science all the time Kali Jun 2012 #78

i agree. that is why i said it is and it isnt. seabeyond Jun 2012 #79

It might have been fun to answer "Do you have an hour to learn just how bad it is"? whathehell Jun 2012 #135

Along that line prole_for_peace Jun 2012 #156

OMG! whathehell Jun 2012 #157

Totally straight face prole_for_peace Jun 2012 #159

i loved it. nt seabeyond Jun 2012 #160

I love it! whathehell Jun 2012 #161

no... just mumbled seabeyond Jun 2012 #162

maybe the point is, if it was not all on a mans shoulder to have to seabeyond Jun 2012 #163

This message was self-deleted by its author whathehell Jun 2012 #164

Sorry, I'm not awake yet, and so misread your post. whathehell Jun 2012 #165

coffee. i should NEVER post before ENOUGH coffee. seabeyond Jun 2012 #166

Disagree. She was reading a book. At a repair shop. redqueen Jun 2012 #167

disagree with your disagree. lol lol. kinda, sorta. i acknowledged unwanted seabeyond Jun 2012 #168

I don't see how they're related. redqueen Jun 2012 #169

it's sexist and dumb. seabeyond Jun 2012 #170

Mini and Midi skirts in the 60s and 70s HockeyMom Jun 2012 #128

they BOOED me. ROFL I loved that, seabeyond Jun 2012 #129

A chorus of "shame on you" works too. Women sufrommich Jun 2012 #131