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zazen

(2,978 posts)
1. read MacKinnon, Dworkin, & Stoltenberg on this
Tue Jul 3, 2012, 09:47 AM
Jul 2012

This has been debated since the late 70s. I don't accept the binary of pro/anti-pornography, or the claim of sexual liberals that I'm trying to violate the first amendment.

The civil legislation proposed and knocked down in the 80s framed pornography as a violation of civil rights. I think that legislation, revised to include the three-pronged exclusion for art/education, could still guide us now, though our powers against the corporate state (including international brokers of vicious pornography) are even more abridged now than they were in the 80s.

Most pornography is a harm, either committed in the creation or committed in its usage as public harassment or the training manual for sexual abuse, and those actions are not protected speech. They are actions. There are plenty of civil harms that could be reframed as speech by the defendants, but no one takes that seriously. If a gang beats up an immigrant and calls him a wet***k, and films it, that would be evidence used in a court of law for a hate crime. If the group sold the film, its profits would probably be recoverable by the victim. Making the harm a tort isn't prior restraint. People can shout fire in a crowded theatre. We don't restrain them in advance. But it's legally actionable (as a crime and civilly, in that case) and if that has a chilling effect, so be it.

I really recommend you get ahold of MacKinnon's short book, Only Words. If that's too dense (and it can be) then Dworkin (google Nikki Craft's site or get Letters from a War Zone) and Stoltenberg (Refusing to be a Man) have more powerful visceral arguments.

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read MacKinnon, Dworkin, & Stoltenberg on this zazen Jul 2012 #1
what i have found here on du, certain women that dont fall in line with some, are rejected. yes.... seabeyond Jul 2012 #2
Can't say it any better than you just did. redqueen Jul 2012 #3
Thank you for those recommendations. Little Star Jul 2012 #5
I've read both MacKinnon and Dworkin, don't know Stoltenberg whathehell Jul 2012 #6
Great post. Thanks! Little Star Jul 2012 #7
You're welcome, Little Star. whathehell Jul 2012 #8
this is what gets me. when i get pissed about the pornification i see and say something outloud seabeyond Jul 2012 #10
"just the way it is"... redqueen Jul 2012 #11
cool. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #12
Love the ad. It's one of those that NOW would decry redqueen Jul 2012 #4
That ad is appalling. MadrasT Jul 2012 #9
Have you ever read the "No Comment" section in Ms. Magazine? whathehell Jul 2012 #13
No I have not. MadrasT Jul 2012 #17
Oh yeah...I've seen stuff that made my blood boil! whathehell Jul 2012 #20
i had plenty to choose from, and there are lots out there. just what i was feeling with this seabeyond Jul 2012 #18
Yeah, I get it. whathehell Jul 2012 #19
you were talking about walking the women thru the porn shops seabeyond Jul 2012 #21
That was a righteous rant. redqueen Jul 2012 #24
cowards. seabeyond Jul 2012 #25
there's nothing new about the division RainDog Jul 2012 #14
dworkin is not the issue. the issue of you defining who we are, regardless of what we say seabeyond Jul 2012 #15
many rape crisis centers do not feel it has decreased so drastically... boston bean Jul 2012 #16
Yah, its stupid to think that being anti-porn means you want the government to ban it. JNathanK Jul 2012 #22
that is the truth of it. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #23
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