History of Feminism

missingthebigdog

(1,233 posts)

15. Help me see the force here.

Mon Jul 30, 2012, 12:11 AM

Jul 2012

As I posted elsewhere, this policy just changes the default assumption from bottle- feeding to breastfeeding. Women should be allowed to choose, but the choice should be to opt out of breastfeeding, if they desire to bottle feed.

Absolutely no harm is done to mom or baby if the hospital assumes that the baby will be breastfed. Unfortunately, the opposite is not true. Babies who are initially bottle fed are sometimes harder to get to latch on (less effort to suck a bottle than a breast) and early nursing is necessary for mom to develop and maintain a milk supply.

It is always strange to me when people feel that they are being forced or manipulated into breastfeeding. It is the way things are designed. No one is indignant about being forced to deliver vaginally, arguing they have the right to choose a surgical delivery. . . .

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NYC mayor wants hospitals to lock up baby formula to encourage breast-feeding [View all] boston bean Jul 2012 OP

I think the FOX article is not accurrate. Tx4obama Jul 2012 #1

if the mother has to work at getting her option, a new mother, then it is too far. seabeyond Jul 2012 #21

She doesn't. This restricts the formula marketers, not the mothers. pnwmom Jul 2012 #114

since this post, i have found other info that goes beyond this simple reasoning. seabeyond Jul 2012 #117

wellll actually . . . mzteris Jul 2012 #2

How about because she doesn't want to? HockeyMom Jul 2012 #3

Women who want to breastfeed will breastfeed. boston bean Jul 2012 #6

Really? Spend a day in a WIC clinic and you will think differently. vanlassie Jul 2012 #13

You speak to me like I could not speak with any authority regarding this. boston bean Jul 2012 #18

In MY county, 70 percent formula feed. vanlassie Jul 2012 #37

and if that is the case, address the issue. that is not the case in THIS seabeyond Jul 2012 #40

County. A Central California county. vanlassie Jul 2012 #45

not enough coffee yet. i read country. obviously. sorry. i corrected. seabeyond Jul 2012 #53

It isn't harassment because this isn't directed at the mother, breastfeeding or not. pnwmom Jul 2012 #120

ok. i get that. that is a good way to explain. still there is the purposeful making accessibility seabeyond Jul 2012 #123

This law doesn't require any mini-lecture, and nurses who might want to engage in that pnwmom Jul 2012 #132

You have no idea why some mothers want to bottle feed. boston bean Jul 2012 #140

Why do you refuse to acknowledge the truth? That this law doesn't pnwmom Jul 2012 #143

No, it requires the doctor to give a reason. Which if he does not provide there will be no formula. boston bean Jul 2012 #145

You still don't understand. A baby to whom breast milk is unavailable or insufficient pnwmom Jul 2012 #147

Yes, it does, when you add in people who think they know better than you. boston bean Jul 2012 #152

I think that is the crux of the issue for you: "when you add in people who think they know pnwmom Jul 2012 #184

No one has to get the doctor s permission vanlassie Jul 2012 #151

again, please tell me where you are getting this info, exactly, cause this is what I have boston bean Jul 2012 #164

What you are pointing to doesn't support your conclusion. pnwmom Jul 2012 #186

It may not be breastfeeding, but it isn't going to see a bottle until the doctor changes the order. boston bean Jul 2012 #189

Then the nurse will get the doctor to immediately change the order. Big deal. No nurse pnwmom Jul 2012 #190

So you finally agree, there is another hurdle to a woman bottle feeding her baby. boston bean Jul 2012 #192

No hurdle at all to the mother. All she has to do is tell the nurse she's decided to formula feed. pnwmom Jul 2012 #196

Correct. This is about stopping unethical plying of mothers of breastfeeding babies vanlassie Jul 2012 #217

go after the companies. leave the mothers ALONE. i really have issue with this seabeyond Jul 2012 #24

Right. That is what is being done. vanlassie Jul 2012 #43

this is not what this legislation is about. it is going after choice. medical reason. make it harder seabeyond Jul 2012 #48

Do they search her bags when she checks in??? vanlassie Jul 2012 #50

i pointed out how it is harassment. you ignored my issues. and no... i am not about "disrupting". seabeyond Jul 2012 #54

No, they're NOT asking the mother for a medical reason not to breastfeed. pnwmom Jul 2012 #124

Hello, you keep saying this, but I suspect you haven't read what I have written or you are boston bean Jul 2012 #138

Please show me where it says that the mother or her doctor must provide a medical reason pnwmom Jul 2012 #144

I already have a bunch of times, but let me provide to you the link that was provided to me boston bean Jul 2012 #166

"Medically indicated" MadrasT Jul 2012 #173

You are missing an important distinction. Read it again. vanlassie Jul 2012 #218

That is ALREADY a New York State regulation, it's nothing new pnwmom Jul 2012 #182

"Anurse will no longer be able to give formula to a breastfeeding baby unless a doctor says the baby boston bean Jul 2012 #185

If a woman changes her mind and decides not to nurse her baby, pnwmom Jul 2012 #187

Seems to me as though a woman would have to wait until her doctors boston bean Jul 2012 #188

Wrong. The order wouldn't apply to a mother who had decided to stop nursing. pnwmom Jul 2012 #202

Orders just don't stop until a doctor stops them and give the direction or other orders. boston bean Jul 2012 #208

They do if the order only applies to a breastfed baby and the baby is no longer breastfeeding.n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #215

No they do not. The nurse must document that the mother requested formula. Period. Over and out. vanlassie Jul 2012 #219

" not force mothers who don't want to". then what would be the mini lecture with EVERY bottle given seabeyond Jul 2012 #200

There is no "mini-lecture" as part of this law. n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #204

Were you not able to see the bias and inflammatory language in that article? vanlassie Jul 2012 #220

No one is bothering mothers. This is about keeping formula companies pnwmom Jul 2012 #191

Most women are breastfeeding, it's over 70% at the hospital. boston bean Jul 2012 #194

They used to have the power to use the hospitals in their marketing schemes pnwmom Jul 2012 #195

Faux news made this happen? boston bean Jul 2012 #197

Faux news is working hard to alarm people like you. n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #198

i gotta tell you, there is a point where words have been spoken out loud, that are being ignored seabeyond Jul 2012 #203

I have no idea what you're saying here. Sorry. n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #206

I'm alarmed that people think this is a good idea. boston bean Jul 2012 #211

Formula reps are allowed free and unfetterd access on maternity wards. They come in and stock the vanlassie Jul 2012 #221

doi have to go back and get the quotes i have provided a number of times from medical people saying seabeyond Jul 2012 #201

I was the only person in my family,including HockeyMom Jul 2012 #141

me, too. i couldnt agree more. and everyone hears how much i am on the kids side. i am appalled seabeyond Jul 2012 #23

What type of control? The mothers are still free not to nurse. pnwmom Jul 2012 #116

No one will force her to. This isn't aimed at the mothers, who are free not to nurse. pnwmom Jul 2012 #115

We're not talking about mzteris Jul 2012 #205

as long as that documentation consists of... because i want to bottle feed. and it go no farther seabeyond Jul 2012 #22

But what if they "want to" but can't? mzteris Jul 2012 #209

i have yet to see the formula companies running amok in the hospitals. i do not like anything seabeyond Jul 2012 #212

For some reason I am suspicious that Faux News may be spinning this issue. redqueen Jul 2012 #4

I saw two sources, NY Daily News and Faux. boston bean Jul 2012 #5

Yeah, no medical reason should be necessary. redqueen Jul 2012 #7

How big of a problem is this? Are "lazy" nurses going against their patients wishes boston bean Jul 2012 #8

I wasn't the only one complaining about it in more than one parenting forum I used to post in. redqueen Jul 2012 #9

Well, how about some education for the nurses on respecting parents wishes. boston bean Jul 2012 #10

I still think there's some spin going on here. redqueen Jul 2012 #11

The pressure to force women to breast feed is unconscionable in my humble opinion. boston bean Jul 2012 #12

Exacty what is the FORCE you speak of? vanlassie Jul 2012 #14

These tactics, SUCK! boston bean Jul 2012 #16

I'm still not seeing what tactics you mean. redqueen Jul 2012 #28

It makes me feel terrible, and I wish I could do it. seabeyond Jul 2012 #34

So ... they're not supposed to tell anyone how much better it is? nt redqueen Jul 2012 #36

did anyone say DO NOT educate? anywhere. really? of course not. between the gyno seabeyond Jul 2012 #42

That's all I read at the link. redqueen Jul 2012 #49

the pressure is clear. think of your vulnerability with a new born. especially the first time. seabeyond Jul 2012 #58

Really, RQ? boston bean Jul 2012 #39

I read the link but somehow missed the bucking bronco ad. redqueen Jul 2012 #46

Actually guilt is used constantly in advertising, vanlassie Jul 2012 #222

Help me see the force here. missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #15

making it a medical necessity for mothers to be able to get formula for their babies boston bean Jul 2012 #17

"making it a medical necessity" MadrasT Jul 2012 #19

I have just about had it with men legislating, controlling, and directing the CHOICES women seabeyond Jul 2012 #38

The nurses have to document a medical necessity missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #55

The language in that one bullet point is not clear to most people... redqueen Jul 2012 #57

it sets everything up for harassment of a new mom. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #61

bottle feeding has nothing to do with "medical necessity". that is bullshit. and pretending this seabeyond Jul 2012 #60

I am not "pretending that this is not a a way to harass a new mom." missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #93

Thank you! Finally, common sense! n/t pnwmom Jul 2012 #126

i have never, in all the years, seen or heard, the bottle was a default. hospitals are so big on seabeyond Jul 2012 #35

Hospitals are NOT big on breastfeedi ng, except as lip service. That's why WOMEN are taking a stand vanlassie Jul 2012 #59

again, i read that. and again, i have to wonder why calif is so far behind texas. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #62

Are they? vanlassie Jul 2012 #65

as i said, in our hospitals, even the ones that take in the new moms that cannot afford, there is an seabeyond Jul 2012 #67

Texas WIC and Texas breastfeeding vanlassie Jul 2012 #73

the hospitals in our area has done all they can to encourage breastfeeding. the instruction is seabeyond Jul 2012 #77

Here is the data on Texas vanlassie Jul 2012 #121

It could never be the fact that it was the womans choice, now could it? boston bean Jul 2012 #178

What I am sure of is that initiation of breastfeeding relates to intention, and discharge 48 hours vanlassie Jul 2012 #216

my point being, the services are offered. the push for breastfeeding is there. and IF a mother seabeyond Jul 2012 #207

To make what harder?? And guilt how? missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #64

that has nothing to do with the legislation. want a campaign to highlight health of breastfeeding? seabeyond Jul 2012 #70

Excuse me the good intentioned well meaning mom who decides after the fact boston bean Jul 2012 #74

You are apparently reading something I am not. missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #91

please explain how this is not manipulating a new mom with a hungry baby and just down right ugly seabeyond Jul 2012 #95

Really?? Cruel? missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #105

how readily you dismiss an hungry baby. cruel? you ask. put that one to the side and go on with seabeyond Jul 2012 #110

I'm done. missingthebigdog Jul 2012 #112

your assumptions would be wrong. i have only had the most positive experiences with nurses and it seabeyond Jul 2012 #119

What I think is there will be some who believe they know better boston bean Jul 2012 #172

I am not missing anything. The woman will have to get permission in her chart boston bean Jul 2012 #97

Not so. Declared formula feeders will already be vanlassie Jul 2012 #113

making the formula less accessible... "nurses aide cannot just grab a bottle" but hell, if these seabeyond Jul 2012 #122

No mother will need a doctor's permission not to breastfeed. That's completely wrong. pnwmom Jul 2012 #127

Uh, what if you got some doctor who thinks the woman can and should breastfeed and is pressuring. boston bean Jul 2012 #131

agree with you again. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #30

�The key to getting more moms to breast-feed is making the formula less accessible� seabeyond Jul 2012 #29

I see several inflammatory statements vanlassie Jul 2012 #199

Yep. vanlassie Jul 2012 #75

again... "lazy/thoughtless nurses" seabeyond Jul 2012 #26

Is there any evidence that Bloomberg thought this up on his own? redqueen Jul 2012 #32

do i fuckin care WHO thought this little garbage legislation up? i will repeat. seabeyond Jul 2012 #44

I think the spin has been very effective. redqueen Jul 2012 #51

then whomever should step up and make it very clear how the fuck this is not about harassing new mom seabeyond Jul 2012 #63

The solution to that is not shaming and guilting women who choose to bottle feed. nt boston bean Jul 2012 #47

The mother is NOT required to have a medical reason for choosing not to breastfeed. pnwmom Jul 2012 #125

Yes, I posted that before I'd read anything but the spin. redqueen Jul 2012 #128

Kind of frustrating, isn't it? How did this get so twisted around? pnwmom Jul 2012 #129

It is not twisted around. boston bean Jul 2012 #133

You've misunderstood the law completely. It doesn't require the woman to have pnwmom Jul 2012 #135

What if breat milk is readily available and not inadequate boston bean Jul 2012 #137

If the mother chooses not to nurse, then her milk is NOT READILY AVAILABLE pnwmom Jul 2012 #149

I understand that, but why does she need to have permission from a doctor boston bean Jul 2012 #158

SHE doesn't need permission from the doctor. The BABY'S doctor will automatically authorize pnwmom Jul 2012 #183

I think you've finally recognized my point below. boston bean Jul 2012 #193

from another stand point, i do NOT like the tagging that a mother is depriving, ergo, a medical seabeyond Jul 2012 #210

All the spin and demagoguery. redqueen Jul 2012 #134

post the debunking of it. I'm open minded, and if it is debunked I'm happy to give in to that point boston bean Jul 2012 #136

I and several others have explained where the regulations are being misrepresented. redqueen Jul 2012 #139

You are right, we won't see eye to eye, because this is not about boston bean Jul 2012 #146

A doctor's input would only be needed in order to override a mother's preference to breastfeed. redqueen Jul 2012 #150

Has anything I've written been read? boston bean Jul 2012 #155

Of course, but simply the fact that you wrote it doesn't confer any authority. redqueen Jul 2012 #159

They were pressured by lactivists, just like every other politician out there boston bean Jul 2012 #162

It's actually science that shows breastfeeding is so much better. redqueen Jul 2012 #167

So it really does come down to what one thinks is better. boston bean Jul 2012 #170

How about if she just wants to bottle feed? boston bean Jul 2012 #130

You don't understand. The medical reason is for why the BABY needs formula, pnwmom Jul 2012 #118

How long mercuryblues Jul 2012 #148

How many doctors refuse epidurals? redqueen Jul 2012 #153

The morning after pill, abortions, d + c's, contraception boston bean Jul 2012 #154

That, to me, seems like a lot of apples and oranges. redqueen Jul 2012 #157

We see it differently. I see a direct correlation and chances of it happening. boston bean Jul 2012 #160

did you mercuryblues Jul 2012 #156

Insurance coverage for birth control has always been an issue. redqueen Jul 2012 #161

The fundies think abortion is life and death too. boston bean Jul 2012 #163

so what you are mercuryblues Jul 2012 #168

No, I am suggesting nothing of the sort. redqueen Jul 2012 #169

here in the backward amarillo texas, there was no thought of handing a bottle. it was all focused seabeyond Jul 2012 #25

this goes along the lines of want an abortion... then sit thru a lecture how bad you are. seabeyond Jul 2012 #20

A lot is being made of that one bullet point. redqueen Jul 2012 #27

If a mother asks for a bottle to feed her baby, why does she need a doctors order? boston bean Jul 2012 #52

after reading that, i think it needs to be cleared up if they are talking about the moms that are seabeyond Jul 2012 #69

ok. thank you for this. it is much clearer on anything i read. this is stating seabeyond Jul 2012 #66

It's no harder than getting medication. redqueen Jul 2012 #68

Where is the spin. A mother needs her doctors permission to give the baby formula from a bottle. boston bean Jul 2012 #71

it's not the formula companies coming up with these new rules and regulations. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #78

No, a mother does not need her doctor's permission. redqueen Jul 2012 #80

The mother must approach a nurse to get a doctor to note in the chart boston bean Jul 2012 #81

Thats what every new mother does. redqueen Jul 2012 #83

Fron your link: boston bean Jul 2012 #85

"not to breastfeed is to put your baby at risk." hype. seabeyond Jul 2012 #76

Less accessible as in more like medicine than paper towels. redqueen Jul 2012 #82

Right women can't write themselves prescriptions, they need a doctor to write one. boston bean Jul 2012 #84

it is not readily available. a new mom wanting to feed crying baby NOW, is a known. they have made seabeyond Jul 2012 #86

If it is in the chart that mom prefers to bottle feed, redqueen Jul 2012 #87

�The key to getting more moms to breast-feed is making the formula less accessible� seabeyond Jul 2012 #88

Every patient in the hospital has to wait for medicine. redqueen Jul 2012 #89

Excuse me, this isn't about just that, it is about taking it out of the mothers hands boston bean Jul 2012 #90

oh, red, we are talking a newborn that needs to eat. not wait for medicine. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #92

Yes and they're almost always on a schedule. redqueen Jul 2012 #94

that is not the words being used. i can only go off what i am reading. not what i would like to HOPE seabeyond Jul 2012 #96

No, that's your interpretation of the words. redqueen Jul 2012 #99

evil tyrannical masterminds behind it are the lactivists boston bean Jul 2012 #101

sea posted a quote from a writer at the NY Post. redqueen Jul 2012 #107

"they" are not doing this. this was a quote YOU put up with a medical womans comment. not "they" seabeyond Jul 2012 #103

and redq. i am just as appalled that you wanted to breastfeed and made that clear and your babies seabeyond Jul 2012 #79

I'm not a fan of formula, but . . . no_hypocrisy Jul 2012 #31

Is anyone reading the FAQ? redqueen Jul 2012 #33

I did, and it still requires a doctors permission to change from breastfeeding to bottle feeding. boston bean Jul 2012 #72

I had to buy powdered goat's milk for my daughter, HockeyMom Jul 2012 #41

This sounds like it's about money Renew Deal Jul 2012 #56

a mini-lecture on the benefits of breast-feeding along with each bottle of formula. seabeyond Jul 2012 #98

I'm astounded that Murdoch's rag is being taken at face value. redqueen Jul 2012 #100

this is not murdochs rag. it is the people saying what will happen. and if you really do not seabeyond Jul 2012 #102

Really? redqueen Jul 2012 #104

I see it as no different that making a woman view an ultrasound prior to boston bean Jul 2012 #106

I see it very differently. redqueen Jul 2012 #108

This is not education, it is guilting and shaming and trying to force women boston bean Jul 2012 #111

those defending. i am all for breastfeeding. cheers to every mother that breastfed. truly, you seabeyond Jul 2012 #109

Hey BB... MadrasT Jul 2012 #142

Hey MT! boston bean Jul 2012 #165

dealing w/ family crisis... AGAIN, so cant keep up. BUT this thread certainly shows we can disagree seabeyond Jul 2012 #171

Shhhhhhh MadrasT Jul 2012 #174

you are an hoot.... so much fun. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #175

I'm getting ready to block boston bean Jul 2012 #176

you betcha.... wink. nt seabeyond Jul 2012 #177

Hahahaha... redqueen Jul 2012 #179

lol lol, that would have been the funniest.... seabeyond Jul 2012 #180

ha! boston bean Jul 2012 #214

Now that made me laugh! Little Star Jul 2012 #213

Isn't odd that those those of us who have breastfed HockeyMom Jul 2012 #181

In my recent (less than a week ago) with delivering a baby a baby at a hospital and short stay Nikia Jul 2012 #223

congrats to you woman. yea... a new baby. seabeyond Jul 2012 #224

Thanks Nikia Jul 2012 #225

ha. that happens. lol. i have two boys, same age difference. 2 and half years. good spacing. seabeyond Jul 2012 #227

Congrats! Hope it's going OK now? vanlassie Jul 2012 #226

Awwww! Congratulations! redqueen Aug 2012 #228