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iverglas

(38,549 posts)
14. I'm glad it mentioned mail-order brides
Wed Apr 18, 2012, 02:44 PM
Apr 2012

because I was going to.

This is a form of trafficking, and the sad for the men thing is that often backfires. The women who take the initiative of seeking out men in richer countries to gain access to those countries are often not the shy, retiring, subservient little women the men are looking for. These relationships are a recipe for conflict, and for abuse, because of the women's vulnerable position (dependent on the men for long periods before gaining legal residence).

And "these men direct their rage not only at the women who reject them" -- or occupy places they believe are rightfully theirs -- can also mean actual violence. Marc Lépine gunned down the "feminists" at the engineering school in Montreal that had rejected his application, and that guy who murdered several women at a fitness club in the US had written extensively about being unable to obtain the kind of woman/relationship he was surely entitled to.

I do have to add some sympathy for men who still get mixed messages though (and we discussed this elsewhere a few weeks ago). Men are still taught to open doors, hold chairs, pay for meals, etc. etc., and generally to be "chivalrous" (even admonitions against hitting women are framed that way). It's somewhat understandable that when they behave the way they are virtually universally told, from birth, that they are supposed to -- and they are still subject to almost universal social opprobrium if they don't -- they expect women to hold up their end of that bargain too: to "know their place".

Women ourselves have got to abandon this double standard. We have to stop expecting to be given preferential treatment by individual men but equal treatment in the workplace and other public spaces. And that actually means we have to stop rewarding men for being "gentlemen" and in fact actively disapprove of those stereotyped and stereotyping behaviours.

These rigid roles and rules perpetuate men's expectations that women will give them their due if the men follow the code. Women really have to stop demanding that men adhere to the code when it's to the women's benefit and still rejecting men who follow it because they don't measure up to a different and contradictory code that women prefer to apply when it suits them in other ways.


On what Scout said about wanting -- I put this to someone in an online flirtation about, oh, nearly 20 years ago. He was a former poetry professor, a jazz musician with an antique wooden yacht, and also obviously a bad boy, who rode his motorcycle without a helmet and kept a gun in his car (yeah, heh). Who the hell could resist?? I said didn't men just want to be wanted (because desire is the best stimulus for desire I know of). He said yeah, that was every man's dream, the perpetually available woman. I realized we were speaking those old different languages, and he apparently didn't have a clue what I was saying.

The term, "men need to be needed” translates to no_hypocrisy Apr 2012 #1
I fear that until we have another generation or two of "feminist-raised" men... hlthe2b Apr 2012 #2
the 80's we were heading in the right direction. 90's i saw something manifesting. seabeyond Apr 2012 #3
Ah yes, that wonderful male entitlement to an unpaid house servant Warpy Apr 2012 #4
lol seabeyond Apr 2012 #5
A successful relationship is a partnership of equals tularetom Apr 2012 #6
my wife "needs" me, the only thing I could probably come up with was to open the pickle jar. seabeyond Apr 2012 #7
Actually 49 years & 8 months - 50 years this August tularetom Apr 2012 #12
congrats! my parents on going on their 68th anniversary in September! Scout Apr 2012 #13
An excellent commentary. CrispyQ Apr 2012 #8
Our culture is a cesspool & we just keep cranking out more & more broken human beings who get in seabeyond Apr 2012 #9
i would always rather be in a relationship where we both WANT each other.... Scout Apr 2012 #10
True nice guys are only entitled to self doubt. One_Life_To_Give Apr 2012 #11
I'm glad it mentioned mail-order brides iverglas Apr 2012 #14
thank you for an excellent post. Scout Apr 2012 #15
Exploiting Beauty in the Workplace seabeyond Apr 2012 #16
You're the sex class and will always be the sex class, redqueen Apr 2012 #17
This is the advice from a female sociology professor? yup seabeyond Apr 2012 #18
and that European stuff ... iverglas Apr 2012 #19
re: that European stuff redqueen Apr 2012 #20
Berlusconi & DSK .... seabeyond Apr 2012 #22
Yep. redqueen Apr 2012 #23
take it a step further in all their sophistication. women lie about being married to not be sexually seabeyond Apr 2012 #21
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