History of Feminism

MadrasT

(7,237 posts)

118. We have as much right to vocally and loudly object to unwanted behavior

Mon Aug 20, 2012, 10:58 AM

Aug 2012

As they* have to justify that behavior.

They operate under the tiresome "personal freedom" meme, and use that as a justification for men leering and such. Which goes something like: It's a free country, too bad if it makes you uncomfortable, stop being such a hypersensitive prude, men are visual, women with healthy sexuality like being looked at, blah blah blah.

Well, I retain the "personal freedom" to fucking object. Loudly.

Asshole behavior gets called out. Everyone may have the "right" to be a creepy jerk, but I damn well have the right to label the behavior as... the behavior of a creepy jerks.

They always seem to miss that "personal responsibility and freedom" extends to everybody.

(Sorry about creepy guy.)

* "They" being the "A lot of men and patriarchy-loving women" redqueen referred to.

Edit history

Please sign in to view edit histories.

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

148 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

women, please tell your experience. some men do not get it. 19, 10pm, college campus [View all] seabeyond Aug 2012 OP

No recent stories ismnotwasm Aug 2012 #1

it did not feel right. seabeyond Aug 2012 #2

It's messed up isn't it? ismnotwasm Aug 2012 #3

it is. messed up. it says a hell of a lot that a woman seabeyond Aug 2012 #4

The latest one... the guy that lives in this complex... I made the mistake of speaking to him. redqueen Aug 2012 #5

Stuff like this has not happened to me since I was a teenager. MadrasT Aug 2012 #6

this is a very interesting post madrast. seabeyond Aug 2012 #7

I forgot the perennial favorite... MadrasT Aug 2012 #12

ya ya ya. lol. i got that one. my fav is going from virgin, to lesbian, to slut all in a moment seabeyond Aug 2012 #13

Another... MadrasT Aug 2012 #15

I'm not the one whining, manipulating, and begging for it. seabeyond Aug 2012 #16

My "NO" is getting much firmer and much more formidable. MadrasT Aug 2012 #23

I used to worry about hurting their feelings seabeyond Aug 2012 #24

"It's just sex. What's the big deal?" CrispyQ Aug 2012 #89

This: CrispyQ Aug 2012 #21

media's influence, the boys-will-be-boys mentality seabeyond Aug 2012 #22

Guys can convince themselves . . . caseymoz Aug 2012 #25

"... they treat the female like a soda machine that just stole their change." redqueen Aug 2012 #32

actually this scenario feels more like the "nice" guy thing. but i am nice. in reality seabeyond Aug 2012 #33

Not as weird as you might think caseymoz Aug 2012 #35

interesting casey. thanks. nt seabeyond Aug 2012 #39

but basically, what you are giving us an example of is male privilege. nt seabeyond Aug 2012 #40

There's definitely male privilege . . . caseymoz Aug 2012 #46

i think you gave an example of objectifying. to not see the woman as a person seabeyond Aug 2012 #47

No, the man knows the woman is a person caseymoz Aug 2012 #72

you are taking objectification way to literally. it would be the man sees the woman on the "tool" seabeyond Aug 2012 #77

study... Dehumanizing seabeyond Aug 2012 #79

I'll have to look at this carefully. caseymoz Aug 2012 #95

showing overt sexuality automatically score below zero in status with some people, male or female, seabeyond Aug 2012 #96

With some people that's true. caseymoz Aug 2012 #105

It's happening to men more, because men are now increasingly portrayed as sex objects as well. redqueen Aug 2012 #102

Pretend or believe. caseymoz Aug 2012 #106

This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Aug 2012 #107

What is offensive is that this very old, well-established concept redqueen Aug 2012 #108

There are more examples . . . caseymoz Aug 2012 #109

Yeah, objectification is just ... like ... a myth. redqueen Aug 2012 #110

Snark??? Honest, no. caseymoz Aug 2012 #112

"Difficult to read" = snark. It very much IS NOT difficult to read. redqueen Aug 2012 #113

You said you didn't have the patience. caseymoz Aug 2012 #115

jumping in late, but I get his questions about objectification zazen Aug 2012 #134

The National Organization for Women has been trying to raise awareness on this issue for years. redqueen Aug 2012 #135

I have a PhD and have been a radical feminist since 1986, zazen Aug 2012 #140

The argument put forth was that if a man talks to a woman, he can't be objectifying her, redqueen Aug 2012 #142

side of the brain as tool, to "be used" not a thing. we probably need ot be more clear so a man is seabeyond Aug 2012 #144

Willful blindness. n/t MadrasT Aug 2012 #141

OMG, and this is so reinforced by PUA bullcrap. redqueen Aug 2012 #41

yes. i am assuming casey is explaining yet not validating and that it is SOME men. cause it seabeyond Aug 2012 #42

Yeah, definitely not all men (it's so annoying having to constantly reaffirm we're not man-haters) redqueen Aug 2012 #44

for me this is the flip side of the coin. this is when MEN declare ALL men because it works for them seabeyond Aug 2012 #48

My, my. I knew we'd agree on something. caseymoz Aug 2012 #36

"heterosexual males are more on the same wavelength. The physical features desired ... redqueen Aug 2012 #37

I really think MadrasT Aug 2012 #38

LOL, no kidding. redqueen Aug 2012 #43

We don't have to that 'feminism 101' crap here do we? ismnotwasm Aug 2012 #67

This message was self-deleted by its author caseymoz Aug 2012 #71

This message was self-deleted by its author MadrasT Aug 2012 #73

*I didn't call *you* a denier. MadrasT Aug 2012 #75

My sincere apology then. caseymoz Aug 2012 #94

Yes, they do play on it with men caseymoz Aug 2012 #70

Guys have 'generally' desired different features based on the fashion of the times. redqueen Aug 2012 #74

when we were gorillas way back when, the BUTT, had everything to do with it. so evo had to create seabeyond Aug 2012 #76

I'm also skeptical of the theory . . . caseymoz Aug 2012 #86

Obviously, preferences are learned caseymoz Aug 2012 #84

"massive amounts on cosmetic surgery" yes ... viagra, balding, weight loss. seabeyond Aug 2012 #85

And this is because our population is aging. caseymoz Aug 2012 #93

i do not agree with your first conclusion, but, this is fun discussion. seabeyond Aug 2012 #97

Yes, men have alway aged. caseymoz Aug 2012 #114

I tried and completely failed to get some of this across over in the men's group Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #8

Thanks for trying. MadrasT Aug 2012 #9

appreciate it. it really is pretty well known, so i was surprised to hear anyone come across seabeyond Aug 2012 #10

As somebody else here remarked, it threatens a sense of entitlement. Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #14

required to be escorted by a male relative seabeyond Aug 2012 #17

"Sort of discouraging." redqueen Aug 2012 #11

That's really what it seems like, rq. MadrasT Aug 2012 #45

It is SO spot on. redqueen Aug 2012 #49

pretty girls in high school were so mean to them... and all the geek girls saying 'hey guys? seabeyond Aug 2012 #51

I was not a nerd, but not popular, either. CrispyQ Aug 2012 #88

that would be interesting. i never thought much about it way back then. seabeyond Aug 2012 #90

very good. i forgot. so when men say it is just the way they are, it is bullshit. it is created seabeyond Aug 2012 #50

We have a culture that caters to 11-year-old-men. CrispyQ Aug 2012 #87

i am so with you on this post. watching daily show the other night. some athlete had an erection seabeyond Aug 2012 #91

It's like Alice and the looking glass. MadrasT Aug 2012 #92

Lots of incidents when I was younger. One from more recently. CrispyQ Aug 2012 #18

"Fucking bitch!" ... wowwowowow... lol. no way. seabeyond Aug 2012 #19

I get more of it NOW, as a middle-aged, overweight woman. redqueen Aug 2012 #20

My reply to "Smile!" is "Dance!" eShirl Aug 2012 #78

ha ha. that is funny. i like. nt seabeyond Aug 2012 #80

LOL love it! Scout Aug 2012 #81

I'm going to try that next time. CrispyQ Aug 2012 #83

One semester I had a class that went until 10 pm, too. 2labslib Aug 2012 #26

i just made sure i walked out with someone and parked in the closer lots. i was a swimmer so would seabeyond Aug 2012 #28

Dad has three kids, all girls. He gets it. N/T 2labslib Aug 2012 #30

3 girls will do it. and seabeyond Aug 2012 #31

Thank you! 2labslib Aug 2012 #34

You were not over-reacting! CrispyQ Aug 2012 #101

I went back to college in my 50s HockeyMom Aug 2012 #27

there is that consideration also..... nt seabeyond Aug 2012 #29

As a man... Z_California Aug 2012 #52

this is sad, that you would refuse to try to understand where a womans sense of danger may play seabeyond Aug 2012 #53

Fuck this is exhausting. MadrasT Aug 2012 #55

it has to be done purposely or so programmed with entitlement and privilege that there is just the seabeyond Aug 2012 #56

Another apology Z_California Aug 2012 #57

hey, that was quite a while ago and giving a heads up pertaining to a thread of men not understandin seabeyond Aug 2012 #58

A parking lot is not a pick up joint. redqueen Aug 2012 #62

that is troll trying its pathetic best to troll Warren Stupidity Aug 2012 #98

i certainly thought that. i have had food for thought though. it seems an autoreaction to what is seabeyond Aug 2012 #99

Is it really so difficult to understand the difference between treating someone like a person, redqueen Aug 2012 #54

Fine Line Z_California Aug 2012 #59

what would happen, god forbid, if you actually listened. maybe even googled women safety and see seabeyond Aug 2012 #60

Nonsense. redqueen Aug 2012 #61

I get it Z_California Aug 2012 #63

hey... i love this post. i think if given a chance you would find MOST ALL of us on mens side. seabeyond Aug 2012 #64

No, thank you Z_California Aug 2012 #65

the thing is, i am a very friendly person and chat with everyone in public and not really seabeyond Aug 2012 #66

Well it's a fact. Some women just don't get it. redqueen Aug 2012 #68

that is why i will take on girls and women, too. for them to own theirs. you are right on redq seabeyond Aug 2012 #69

My experience is that being a single guy is one of the easiest of all the human experiences LanternWaste May 2013 #145

Chatting up a girl in a public place is one thing gollygee May 2013 #146

Ah yes. The nice guy. ismnotwasm Aug 2012 #82

i knew there was a post i wanted to come back to. this was it. seabeyond Aug 2012 #100

I can't imagine myself imposing on a stranger in that way. MineralMan Aug 2012 #103

thanks MM. of course you would consider it. every man i know is aware seabeyond Aug 2012 #104

Remember the crap spewed about Rebecca Watson? redqueen Aug 2012 #111

Creepy guy staring at me on the elevator this morning. redqueen Aug 2012 #116

there are men that purposely work on making women uncomfortable. look him in the eye, and say WHAT? seabeyond Aug 2012 #117

It makes me feel queasy even thinking about doing that. redqueen Aug 2012 #119

do it a couple times. gets easy. especially if there are others in the elevator. he is COUNTING seabeyond Aug 2012 #122

This guy I'd talked to before, he seemed nice. redqueen Aug 2012 #125

eeeew. seabeyond Aug 2012 #127

It sounds like he's off some sort of medication he should be taking ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #136

and most all of us women have experienced men that think they can say whatever the fuck they want seabeyond Aug 2012 #137

I'm responding specifically to the situation redqueen discussed ProudToBeBlueInRhody Aug 2012 #138

thank you for the clarification. appreciated. seabeyond Aug 2012 #139

Could be. Could be a head injury, those can also radically change a personality. redqueen Aug 2012 #143

I love this approach MadrasT Aug 2012 #121

one has to figure it out. i guess i figure the odds is not in favor of a beating and yes public, seabeyond Aug 2012 #123

We have as much right to vocally and loudly object to unwanted behavior MadrasT Aug 2012 #118

You are so right MadrasT. redqueen Aug 2012 #120

"Instead, my reaction is to question my own feelings." this is the problem. seabeyond Aug 2012 #124

I know... and I told her she should have said something. redqueen Aug 2012 #126

but that has to be stopped. and the only way is to let him know it is not acceptable. seabeyond Aug 2012 #129

Well at one point I did ask him, "So how is your wife?" redqueen Aug 2012 #131

ha ha ha. seabeyond Aug 2012 #132

oh, and seabeyond Aug 2012 #133

I'm a total bitch and I don't care... luvspeas Aug 2012 #128

guys out there who get a woodie from watching women's discomfort in these situations. seabeyond Aug 2012 #130

screaming GET THE FUCK AWAY FROM ME elehhhhna May 2013 #147

ha ha. that is great. i was a "nice" girl back then. i could do it now. nt seabeyond May 2013 #148