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R.Quinn

(122 posts)
47. More responses comin' at ya
Wed Sep 24, 2014, 03:42 PM
Sep 2014

Glad to see we are both after fairness. Seems it's just a matter of how we should get there. You say that those with more wealth receive more government services than than do the poor, and I'd love to see some data on that, because I'm not so sure. Take fire and police services, for example. It would make more sense to me that these services would be used more often and more intensely in urban, densely-populated, lower-income areas; where there are more people around, there are typically more crimes and more fires, no? Joe Millionaire, living in his 6-bedroom palace in the 'burbs, probably never has to call the police or fire departments. The wealthy are also much more likely to be privately educated; they can likewise hire those with private educations, in which case they aren't utilizing public school services at all. If you have a problem with military protection of international trade, then fine; eliminate this service altogether and force the wealthy to hire their own private security; surely they can afford it. Furthermore, I would argue that the use of roads, sewers and other infrastructure for businesses is what business taxes are for, not income tax. So if you can prove to me empirically that the wealthy actually receive more of these services than the poor, maybe you can change my mind.

^^On a side note, you also mentioned "corporate welfare". If by this you are referring to things such as corporate subsidies and limited liability privilege, then yes, I agree with you that they are a problem. Let's eliminate them!

Speed limits are different from minimum wage. When you travel on a road paved by the State, it only makes sense that you would have to play by their rules. Private businesses, on the other hand, should have no such limitations. Not to be lazy, but " target="_blank">this guy essentially lays out my entire argument against minimum wage in terms of liberty and the free market.

Not all limits in our society are limits mandated by law. There is one major barrier to entry that has not yet been mentioned in regards to arms ownership, and that is COST. A single FIM-92 Stinger missile, for example, has a hefty price tag of $38,000. I'll go out on a limb and say most people don't desire to own such a weapon, and even those that do likely can't afford one. So who would realistically have private ownership of missiles? Hardly anyone. Same goes for fully automatic guns; if you're not willing to throw down at least $15,000, then good luck getting one. It's just not realistic to view these as a threat. So really, there are limits on these weapons, just not the kind of limits you were expecting.

If the police cannot obtain a search warrant, then they probably don't have reasonable cause to tail someone onto private property in the first place, be it residential or commercial, if the owner doesn't want them there. That's what I'm saying here. So, not being able to tail someone is a non-issue. With the way the police regularly abuse our rights (examples are all over this very site), I don't feel bad making their job a little more difficult. And you're right, the racists and the bigots will still be out there, but that's the the nature of liberty. It's dangerous, in that it can be used for both good and evil, but it's also precious because of the free choices it gives us. More laws will never eradicate these hateful views; only by changing hearts and minds can we achieve that. In the meantime, protect liberty!

I do have a strong anti-regulation disposition, I just haven't personally decided what that should look like on a practical level. The FDA, for example, I find to be extremely corrupt and manipulated by the very businesses it claims to regulate; it is no friend of the American people. I just haven't figured out how to replace it yet! I disagree that social issues are simply "window dressing"; those topics are extremely important to me and many other libertarians that I know. In fact, it's on these issues that you and I have the most common ground, so let's emphasize them instead!

Thanks, as always, for your time. It means a lot to me that you would provide your viewpoints and counterpoints in detail. I hope to find many more thinkers like you on the DU.

So what makes you think you're a libertarian? Scuba Sep 2014 #1
I'm glad you asked R.Quinn Sep 2014 #2
A flat tax would be a terrible thing for middle and lower income workers - very regressive ... Scuba Sep 2014 #3
Hmm... R.Quinn Sep 2014 #4
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I'll respond in detail ... Scuba Sep 2014 #5
Yes, the flat tax would apply to capital gains as well. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #6
Let's say a flat tax of 17% would cover all the expenses, and 2% more would be needed to Cal33 Dec 2014 #68
My thoughts .... Scuba Sep 2014 #7
Thanks for the in-depth reply R.Quinn Sep 2014 #12
OK, I looked at your responses .... Scuba Sep 2014 #34
Some more responses for you R.Quinn Sep 2014 #41
Thanks for you response. My thoughts ... Scuba Sep 2014 #44
More responses comin' at ya R.Quinn Sep 2014 #47
Glad to reply ... Scuba Sep 2014 #48
Back again R.Quinn Sep 2014 #49
Thanks for your reply .... Scuba Sep 2014 #50
Interesting. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #51
I love your reply Scuba Kevin from WI Dec 2014 #62
You're welcome to use it Kevin. Sadly the libertarian who prompted the discussion ... Scuba Dec 2014 #64
Have you ever read the marriage statutes in a state? I have and they are about who owns what, uppityperson Sep 2014 #9
You and I are asking the same question! R.Quinn Sep 2014 #10
Thank you for clarifying. Who are you supporting for the next Presidential election? I am curious. uppityperson Sep 2014 #13
I am not 100% decided yet... R.Quinn Sep 2014 #14
DU is split on Ms. Clinton and I do not know who for the primary. uppityperson Sep 2014 #15
Question as to your views on marriage NRaleighLiberal Sep 2014 #16
Good question R.Quinn Sep 2014 #17
It is extremely relevant to the discussion because of this. NRaleighLiberal Sep 2014 #18
Let me state my position again. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #20
Because your line in a previous post, quoted below, is a troubling position to take, in my view. NRaleighLiberal Sep 2014 #21
I see. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #23
Do that one man one woman have to be of breeding potential to be recognized as a real marriage? uppityperson Sep 2014 #25
In your scenario, R.Quinn Sep 2014 #27
I am asking your opinion since this is a discussion forum and we are discussing this. uppityperson Sep 2014 #31
To answer R.Quinn Sep 2014 #36
You say' "marriage" is between a man and a woman', yet partnerships should not be viewed uppityperson Sep 2014 #19
This really comes down to semantics. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #22
If you were to congratulate a couple on their marriage, what would you say to each? uppityperson Sep 2014 #24
I don't believe it's "separate but equal" R.Quinn Sep 2014 #26
You forgot to answer any of my questions. Let me ask again and add 1 more uppityperson Sep 2014 #30
Sorry, I did forget to answer your questions. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #32
Talking about our personal beliefs is a way to get to know one another. Thank you for answering. uppityperson Sep 2014 #35
But you recognize that both the civic and the religious institution are called "Marriage". Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #38
You and I are in agreement R.Quinn Sep 2014 #39
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Sep 2014 #43
Government not in marriages? JonLP24 Nov 2014 #53
I'm curious as to how you rationalize Dr. Xavier Sep 2014 #8
I think I was overzealous R.Quinn Sep 2014 #11
How would you feel about eliminating all worker income tax and only taxing corporate income and weal grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #28
Interesting proposition. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #29
Tax collection becomes infinitely less expensive. Resources are freed up to find grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #33
I'd have to think that one through before giving an answer. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #42
Cool. It's my own idea, one which generally finds little support, lol! grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #45
How much liberty would you afford corporations? rug Sep 2014 #37
Ah, corporations. R.Quinn Sep 2014 #40
Def agree on 1&2, 3 I think would lead to needless death and a lot of externalized costs. grahamhgreen Sep 2014 #46
Message auto-removed Name removed Nov 2014 #52
Hi TshaiRedhair Nov 2014 #54
I thought I might be Libertarian Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #55
Thanks for your thoughtful post R.Quinn Nov 2014 #56
Thanks for your thoughts Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #57
Also would like to hear your thoughts on this: Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #58
My thoughts R.Quinn Nov 2014 #59
I respect your opinions Ravenna44 Nov 2014 #60
Big government? Bagsgroove Nov 2014 #61
I was once a libertarian Kevin from WI Dec 2014 #63
Welcome to DU! cyberswede Dec 2014 #65
welcome to DU... awoke_in_2003 Dec 2014 #66
Hello. bigwillq Dec 2014 #67
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