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The Traveler

(5,632 posts)
48. It's all getting out of hand
Fri Mar 11, 2016, 02:38 AM
Mar 2016

I'm a Sanders supporter. I cannot endorse or defend the "brick" comment you reference in your post. While I understand that these are times which stir passions, and frustrations, I would encourage us all to keep our tongues in check and think before we post. (And I say that to remind myself of that need ... I'm pretty damn frustrated by the whole 2016 process myself.)

On the other hand, the OP you link to in this post does indeed characterize opposition to Ms. Clinton as constituting hatred of women. And that is obvious bullshit.

But we've all run into it. Whether it be here, on Facebook, or in other venues, when I dare broach a difference with Ms. Clinton on a matter of policy, I am invariably accused of being sexist, misogynist, racist, etc. by a Clinton supporter. And they almost never want to debate the merits of the policy. I have been told many, many times (and this is a close paraphrase of a command that varies but little in form and content) "Shut up. You're voting for Hillary."

And that stuns me. Evidently, I am supposed to stop thinking for myself because a woman is running for the Presidency. Evidently, I am supposed to forego all my other values to support the objective of breaking that ultimate glass ceiling. (But I think we all can agree that barrier really does need to be shattered at some point.)

Evidently, I am supposed to act like a Republican low information voter, and fall in line. The Clinton machine has been much more abusive than they were in 2008, and that was no picnic. I think they feel politically safer smearing an old white guy than the young, charismatic black gentleman who opposed them in 2008. (I'm beginning to wonder how much of the vitriol and contempt aimed at Sanders and his supporters is fueled by antisemitism? I don't want to believe that is the case but, damn! They're even stooping to red baiting now, and I didn't think that would happen, either. I've never heard Sanders or one of his supporters hurl that charge at a Clinton supporter, but maybe we should just to give them the same kind of experience they are so eager to dish out?)

I don't think Ms. Clinton, her attack dog Brock, or the vast majority of her supporters understand that kind of approach tends to just harden resistance. Or the problem that creates for members of the more progressive wing of the party. Because IF Ms. Clinton wins the nomination through these methods, and IF the membership of the Party is really OK with her on fracking, regime change, and several other important subjects, and IF the membership of the Party really demands that we behave like low information voters and shut up and fall in line .... well, how the hell can I stay in the Party? Are any of the alternatives really tenable? These are the questions all of this forces me to ask myself.

2016 is shaping up to be a very scary year, politically. The Democratic Party is the only vehicle by which the darkness of the Republican Party can be successfully opposed. If the Republicans gain the White House and increase their majorities in the Senate and/or House, women's rights and gay rights are exposed to direct jeopardy. We can expect no action on the climate crisis. We can expect even more war than Ms. Clinton would wage. For fucks sake, clearly, we cannot allow a Trump or Cruz access to the missile codes!

But my sense, and my fear is that the Democratic Party is in danger of fracturing in a way that cannot be easily repaired. Regardless of the clear differences between Sanders and Clinton camps, we cannot allow the Republicans to win the White House or strengthen their grip on Congress.

Trav

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Most of the sexists that won't vote for a woman bernbabe Mar 2016 #1
Welp, I've already read them agreeing with one another retrowire Mar 2016 #6
You know what they say, if we don't support her, somehow, we're supporting Trump VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #14
Id argue they are the Trump supporters considering they ignore all the polls onecaliberal Mar 2016 #25
That's the low-effort explanation mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #26
Nice point. bvf Mar 2016 #41
You know, this is what Hillary excels at mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #44
All too true. bvf Mar 2016 #47
Yes. (and, that gif wins the Internet). Volaris Mar 2016 #50
Bingo! cannabis_flower Mar 2016 #80
It's their fallback position-Hillary's too. The victim. jalan48 Mar 2016 #2
The victim. Gwhittey Mar 2016 #12
The fall-back position of all bullies when cornered is the victim card. nm rhett o rick Mar 2016 #22
Seems to happen a lot: emotional manipulation noiretextatique Mar 2016 #84
Let 'em yell at each other. No point in jumping into their mud pit. Scootaloo Mar 2016 #3
I saw that OP - wallowing in maudlin self pity Divernan Mar 2016 #36
Reading your post, it put a real fire in my loins. snort Mar 2016 #61
OMG! Be still, my heart! (lol) Divernan Mar 2016 #72
Johnny Cash - A Berning Ring of Fire! Divernan Mar 2016 #73
I bet you are right about that! snort Mar 2016 #97
Not Gender (I'm female)....Character! bkkyosemite Mar 2016 #4
That was one person's post. madaboutharry Mar 2016 #5
And it was one post with a brick comment. retrowire Mar 2016 #10
Or ereven criticizing her gender AT ALL? mindwalker_i Mar 2016 #28
They are probably talking about bernbabe Mar 2016 #32
i think i can vaguely recall some commentary retrowire Mar 2016 #38
Heck, there's a whole thread about Bernie's tie. Fawke Em Mar 2016 #93
And...the post was deleted!!! noiretextatique Mar 2016 #85
Thank you mikehiggins Mar 2016 #7
Just saw that link myself... Silver_Witch Mar 2016 #8
Agreed. If the DNC keeps moving to the hard right Lorien Mar 2016 #17
+10000 DiehardLiberal Mar 2016 #40
Thanks LiberalLovinLug Mar 2016 #66
for me, lies are not gender related. oldandhappy Mar 2016 #9
I know plenty of women that would have shown Bill the door long before Monica. If you want brewens Mar 2016 #11
I don't agree, brewens. Their personal relationship is NOBODY'S BUSINESS. Peace Patriot Mar 2016 #24
I'd say it's everybody's business AgerolanAmerican Mar 2016 #33
"the fallout from their relationship brought us the Lewinsky craziness"--no, Ken Starr did. Peace Patriot Mar 2016 #71
Post removed Post removed Mar 2016 #81
If he wanted privacy, he should have rented a motel room, not used the Oval Office Divernan Mar 2016 #45
Yes. 840high Mar 2016 #54
He should have remembered sarge43 Mar 2016 #75
That sublimated pain of hers is projected out on the rest of the world Divernan Mar 2016 #77
100% with you on this, Peace Patriot senz Mar 2016 #55
Operative term: "as long as it wasn't harming anyone" Divernan Mar 2016 #74
But does adultery invite public exploration and censure? senz Mar 2016 #99
But we do know about it. It sure makes it look like she stuck with him because she wasn't brewens Mar 2016 #94
I would be careful... the OP does not specifically mention Bernie or Bernie supporters. Kip Humphrey Mar 2016 #13
To be fair... retrowire Mar 2016 #19
Agree. It's inferred with emphasis. eom saltpoint Mar 2016 #23
That is why I trashed the Hillary Clinton group virtualobserver Mar 2016 #15
Eh. I use it to fluff my ignore list. At 105 and counting-- the last two days have been a DOOZY. VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #18
I just trash the group because I can't really respond to most posts there virtualobserver Mar 2016 #27
It keeps my blood pressure down, and inoculates me against wrong opinions and self-serving tribalism VulgarPoet Mar 2016 #91
At the Bernie Rally today when Bernie talked about fighting for equity and choice for all women Lorien Mar 2016 #16
Exactly. I think Bernie care more for women's rights than Hillary does senz Mar 2016 #60
Awfully borderline over there in saltpoint Mar 2016 #20
It's pathetic. Hillary will become a laughingstock if this inanity is taken further. snagglepuss Mar 2016 #21
I am a 65-year-old woman, a long time feminist, and I also resent the implication that tblue37 Mar 2016 #29
They have me blocked in that 840high Mar 2016 #56
Yeah, me too! Hatchling Mar 2016 #96
The good news is that the Republicans are now facing a brokered convention. Major Hogwash Mar 2016 #30
Eh, consider the source... Flying Squirrel Mar 2016 #31
I completely agree. I put them on ignore. liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #37
Yes. I have put 4 of them on ignore. 840high Mar 2016 #57
The tragic aspect of this Helen Borg Mar 2016 #34
She won't. She's played the gender card. 840high Mar 2016 #58
Yes. Full agreement. senz Mar 2016 #62
Why would she? She does it herself noiretextatique Mar 2016 #89
Let me get this straight. I'm a woman and because I criticize Hillary's policies, and her negative liberal_at_heart Mar 2016 #35
Yup, that's what they're saying. zentrum Mar 2016 #42
Read that OP. zentrum Mar 2016 #39
Yes, it embarrassed me too. senz Mar 2016 #68
Im failry sure my wife of 36 years doesnt hate women. they are getting crazy now litlbilly Mar 2016 #43
I've voted for women often fbc Mar 2016 #46
It's all getting out of hand The Traveler Mar 2016 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author DUbeornot2be Mar 2016 #52
This message was self-deleted by its author DUbeornot2be Mar 2016 #49
The poster has a long history of such posts nxylas Mar 2016 #59
^ this ^ Ivan Kaputski Mar 2016 #109
This message was self-deleted by its author DUbeornot2be Mar 2016 #110
Hillary supporters are panicky. They 840high Mar 2016 #51
Her unfavorability ratings are high. Manifestor_of_Light Mar 2016 #53
I would never support or debase Hillary as a woman. Half-Century Man Mar 2016 #63
i wonder how the male hillary supporters hopemountain Mar 2016 #64
why would you even bother reading anything posted in the Hillary Clinton group anyway? All it is Gene Debs Mar 2016 #65
They don't even praise Hillary Scootaloo Mar 2016 #69
hillaryfans are hurting feminism redruddyred Mar 2016 #67
I commented on this in GDP but dana_b Mar 2016 #70
Any criticism of Hillary is because we're all sexists. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Mar 2016 #76
OMG Just ignore that hypocritical manipulative drivel noamnety Mar 2016 #78
"You are a resource to be exploited – nothing more." Donkees Mar 2016 #79
They are referring to a nasty, sexist comment that was deleted noiretextatique Mar 2016 #82
I think it's probably good such a thing was deleted. stage left Mar 2016 #88
I am not sure it was a Bernie supporter noiretextatique Mar 2016 #90
Yes stage left Mar 2016 #112
Do you have a link to this post? stage left Mar 2016 #83
I saw it noiretextatique Mar 2016 #92
I guess I must hate myself then. stage left Mar 2016 #113
Well, things have escalated. noamnety Mar 2016 #86
What's interesting about this senz Mar 2016 #100
Perfect breakdown! ReallyIAmAnOptimist Mar 2016 #107
Kicked and recommended! Thank you, retrowire! eom Enthusiast Mar 2016 #87
Oh FFS. bunnies Mar 2016 #95
I posted a nice response SheenaR Mar 2016 #98
K & R! SoapBox Mar 2016 #101
I saw that last night dragonfly301 Mar 2016 #102
Consider the poster. BillZBubb Mar 2016 #103
Some of those threads are starting to sound Wednesdays Mar 2016 #104
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2016 #105
Really? nt retrowire Mar 2016 #106
This message was self-deleted by its author Corruption Inc Mar 2016 #111
~ Ivan Kaputski Mar 2016 #108
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