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Bernie Sanders
In reply to the discussion: Sanders won the CNN poll but you must see this [View all]BlueMTexpat
(15,374 posts)22. Perhaps you need to step back and
take a deep breath before you continue with this particular conspiracy theory. You may actually be harming your candidate.
Here's one response to consider, for example: http://www.salon.com/2015/10/15/bernie_sanders_truthers_step_down_theres_no_conspiracy_to_hide_that_he_won_the_debate/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=socialflow
Online polls are the worst possible measure of public opinion, except when it comes to focus groups. As Nate Silver explained in 2012, central challenge that Internet polls face is in collecting a random sample, which is the sine qua non of a scientific survey. The polls that Johnson cites, however, dont even try. Theyre polls that are open to anyone who wants to vote. Polls like that usually get flooded by highly motivated people who are on a missionsuch as Sanders supportersand therefore have no relationship whatsoever to what the average person is thinking.
And if you think focus groups are somehow going to give you objective information, consider that Trump lost the GOP debate in the Fox News focus group. Didnt seem to do squat when it came to his poll numbers, though. Its possible that Sanders will get a bump in the real polls, when they come out. Or not. Either way, that doesnt mean that the pundits were somehow trying to get Sanders when they opined that Clinton had done better in the debate.
...
Far from wanting Clinton to win the debate, many pundits went in all but rooting for her to fail, hoping that would encourage Joe Biden to enter the race, creating the kind of drama that drives up ratings. In addition, if Clinton was running a weak and inconsistent campaign, that would make it more of a contest in the general election. For the horse race-obsessed mainstream media, a strong and competent Clinton is the worst possible thing, because it means for a boring election season and lower ratings. In light of all this, the best possible explanation for all the declarations that Clinton won is that it is a sincerely held opinion, albeit one that is coming from a different placemore focused on the long-term campaign and intra-party politicsthan where focus group viewers are coming from.
...
[Bernie Sanders is] a smart man with good ideas who has played a valuable role in this race, even if he doesnt win the primary. He already has to overcome suspicions in mainstream media circles that hes some kind of radical. Having his supporters running around making paranoid accusations that sound a whole lot like the kind of self-justifications that right wingers make isnt helping him. Look, the debate itself was mostly a friendly forum between people who have more in common than not. Perhaps its wise for those who support different candidates, be it Sanders or Clinton, to use that as a model for how to proceed during the primary season, rather than treating each other like the enemy and tossing out paranoid, conspiratorial accusations.
And if you think focus groups are somehow going to give you objective information, consider that Trump lost the GOP debate in the Fox News focus group. Didnt seem to do squat when it came to his poll numbers, though. Its possible that Sanders will get a bump in the real polls, when they come out. Or not. Either way, that doesnt mean that the pundits were somehow trying to get Sanders when they opined that Clinton had done better in the debate.
...
Far from wanting Clinton to win the debate, many pundits went in all but rooting for her to fail, hoping that would encourage Joe Biden to enter the race, creating the kind of drama that drives up ratings. In addition, if Clinton was running a weak and inconsistent campaign, that would make it more of a contest in the general election. For the horse race-obsessed mainstream media, a strong and competent Clinton is the worst possible thing, because it means for a boring election season and lower ratings. In light of all this, the best possible explanation for all the declarations that Clinton won is that it is a sincerely held opinion, albeit one that is coming from a different placemore focused on the long-term campaign and intra-party politicsthan where focus group viewers are coming from.
...
[Bernie Sanders is] a smart man with good ideas who has played a valuable role in this race, even if he doesnt win the primary. He already has to overcome suspicions in mainstream media circles that hes some kind of radical. Having his supporters running around making paranoid accusations that sound a whole lot like the kind of self-justifications that right wingers make isnt helping him. Look, the debate itself was mostly a friendly forum between people who have more in common than not. Perhaps its wise for those who support different candidates, be it Sanders or Clinton, to use that as a model for how to proceed during the primary season, rather than treating each other like the enemy and tossing out paranoid, conspiratorial accusations.
I watched the full debate. Yes, I am a Clinton supporter, but I sincerely thought that she did the best job overall. Did I like all of her answers? No, I liked some of Bernie's better. I thought Bernie did very well except for his gun control and foreign policy (he was truly at a loss with Putin for a couple seconds) answers. But I thought that Bernie did an excellent job too. Both were, IMO, head and shoulders above the other candidates - each of whom is head and shoulders above ANY GOPer candidate - and show why they deserve their respective statuses at this point.
But what really matters is not who "won" based on the debate polls or any pundits' opinions or even what you think or I think. It is whether more polling will reflect that Bernie damaged Clinton's candidacy in any major way. I really don't believe that he did and that the polling will, at best for Bernie, pretty much reflect the pre-debate status quo. If anything, Bernie helped her with his wonderful comment about her email.
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Spock would say it's only logical. Why would we expect a major corporation whose sole (soul)
rhett o rick
Oct 2015
#8
After the 2000 election debacle, didn't the CEO of CNN crawl to Bush and ask forgiveness
rhett o rick
Oct 2015
#85
I couldn't find anything but won't give up. My search skills are not the best. nm
rhett o rick
Oct 2015
#91
The DNC did not conduct the poll. The "DNC" refers to it being a DNC debate. (eom)
StevieM
Oct 2015
#45
Yep. Bernie's most gracious "Enough about those damned emails!" moment, that went totally viral
99th_Monkey
Oct 2015
#18
Is anyone really surprised? They can't really show actual polling results
NorthCarolina
Oct 2015
#12
Well the media convinced most Americans that all the exit polls were wrong about the bushes
fasttense
Oct 2015
#19
These polls are not based on scientific sampling methods. And a Frank Luntz focus group is not
StevieM
Oct 2015
#28
Doesn't have to be based on scientific sampling methods for us to come to some obvious conclusions.
Bubzer
Oct 2015
#41
The problem is that different groups of people will come to different "obvious conclusions" that
StevieM
Oct 2015
#46
Cheese Sandwich's post is spot on. It's not about hillary...its about the ad dollars
Bubzer
Oct 2015
#42
Okay, so thats one... what about the others? Attacking one doesnt invalidate the others focus groups
Bubzer
Oct 2015
#43
Wow, that's not just WINNING, that's a WIPEOUT! No wonder they are acting out like
sabrina 1
Oct 2015
#50
The goal was to take over ALL the media and turn it ALL into Fox Style Propaganda. And they did.
sabrina 1
Oct 2015
#59
Consider my favorite of having them awaken tied to a chair in an empty warehouse at the waterfront..
Spitfire of ATJ
Oct 2015
#83