Democratic Primaries

BlueWI

(1,736 posts)

166. If both candidates voted the same way

Mon May 6, 2019, 07:14 PM

May 2019

then it would make sense to apply the same standards. But the sum of their votes is different.

What you're essentially saying is that Sanders' second vote doesn't distinguish him from Biden on the Iraq issue because of Sanders' 1998 vote for the regime change resolution.

There are differences in what was proposed (open-ended regime change versus immediate war authorization) and in the context of Republican vs. Democratic administrations, but you are saying there's no distinction unless Sanders voted twice against the proposed policy.

IMO, this minimizes the importance of the 2002 vote. I don't think this serves any useful purpose. It's simple to support other candidates in 2020 (I do, you do) while still giving credit to a historically important vote (as 2002 was).

But opinions vary.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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Bernie has praised Trump and criticized Biden [View all] Vidal May 2019 OP

It's like deja vu all over again. comradebillyboy May 2019 #1

Triangulation Bernie Style. Wait until Immigration and Gun Control Comes Up TomCADem May 2019 #119

last time he spent all his time attacking Hillary. trueblue2007 May 2019 #136

Yeah, if we feed the monster with praise and compliments, he will spare us dalton99a May 2019 #2

More feeding the monster from BS.. Cha May 2019 #83

Geez. No wonder Trump likes him so much dalton99a May 2019 #138

This message was self-deleted by its author lapucelle May 2019 #3

WTF dalton99a May 2019 #4

Oh? Nuggets May 2019 #6

Sanders is totally attacking Trump.... RazBerryBeret May 2019 #5

Why did so many Democrats fall for the Bush/Cheney lies? SMC22307 May 2019 #8

water under the bridge... RazBerryBeret May 2019 #9

Yeah, one of the many destroyed bridges in Iraq. SMC22307 May 2019 #16

Water under the bridge? BlueWI May 2019 #50

How about talking about the good stuff Biden did. katmondoo May 2019 #10

Sure, just sweep the death, destruction, and obscene amounts of money spent... SMC22307 May 2019 #11

Obscene amounts of money that Bernie voted for? n/t namahage May 2019 #27

Thank you! John Fante May 2019 #30

How on earth did you derive that Sanders is a "peacenick"? SMC22307 May 2019 #35

Bernie also voted for military intervention for regime change in Iraq. Twice. In one year. ehrnst May 2019 #53

Well now..... George II May 2019 #74

Thank you for BS' record on Voting For Regime Cha May 2019 #86

So? Those weren't declarations of war. SMC22307 May 2019 #90

So... 500,000 deaths over the next 2 years are 'different' because it wasn't a 'declared war." ehrnst May 2019 #115

No mention of "military action in Iraq in 1998". rgbecker May 2019 #123

So, Bernie's two votes in 2003 were 'different' because REASONS. ehrnst May 2019 #125

"Bernie...may not had even been in the chamber." namahage May 2019 #151

BS is pro-gun, pro-Russia, voted for regime change in Iraq, and voted to fund the trillion dollar lapucelle May 2019 #157

+1 betsuni May 2019 #158

Interesting. sheshe2 May 2019 #94

F-16 soon to be F-35 with nuclear capability. sheshe2 May 2019 #124

Well, it seems some Senators are happy with "feeding the military industrial beast" ehrnst May 2019 #133

No. sheshe2 May 2019 #140

It's the pro-gun and pro-Russia votes that are problematic. lapucelle May 2019 #156

You have a problem with these Katrina-related and troops-supporting 'yea' votes? SMC22307 May 2019 #34

You missed another piece of troop support that Bernie was responsible for. namahage May 2019 #37

Indeed. The vetting won't be squelched this time around. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #57

Indeed not.. Cha May 2019 #108

Thank You for that, namahage.. Cha May 2019 #107

What percentage of the overall value of those bills are the items.... George II May 2019 #128

I'd love to read about those. Got any bill numbers? n/t namahage May 2019 #135

an F35 in every garage lol nt msongs May 2019 #38

seriously not being offensive. RazBerryBeret May 2019 #51

Here ya Go, katmondoo.. Cha May 2019 #113

Easy to quarterback from up in the balcony section. Amimnoch May 2019 #25

LOL Anyone with half a brain knew warmongers Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rummy, Feith, Wolfowitz, et al... SMC22307 May 2019 #31

the public in general didn't, apparently treestar May 2019 #63

Irrelevant, and completely contrary to the point. Amimnoch May 2019 #82

Not all Democrats fell for the BFEE lies... SMC22307 May 2019 #99

And in 1998, 30 voted against military action in Iraq.. ehrnst May 2019 #118

The bad, hard decision was the WRONG decision. theaocp May 2019 #36

I don't care Vidal May 2019 #40

Bernie gets EVERYTHING right - not just the IWR - when it comes to foreign policy. InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #109

... BannonsLiver May 2019 #134

Attacking drumpf by licking him all over with praise in the statement? lark May 2019 #85

serious? RazBerryBeret May 2019 #105

Hey DU, the Iraq War was "like a hundred years ago"... SMC22307 May 2019 #7

Most people don't think that, just because one person said it. Agschmid May 2019 #14

I'd tend to agree... SMC22307 May 2019 #17

It didn't work against Hillary NYMinute May 2019 #19

And that speaks volumes about the American public. SMC22307 May 2019 #22

It also explains how folks can somehow justify in any way shape or form theaocp May 2019 #24

Yeah, "decent" Dick Cheney with his 11% approval rating. SMC22307 May 2019 #26

It seems to be the case with such votes in 1998. ehrnst May 2019 #121

Are you equating those votes to Cheney's war? n/t theaocp May 2019 #122

I don't know of anyone who would "equate votes to war." ehrnst May 2019 #127

It is a question of priorities and future NYMinute May 2019 #41

109,000+ people died in Iraq from 2003-2009. Agschmid May 2019 #44

Iraq war was a major fuck-up NYMinute May 2019 #49

Voting against the war was clearly warranted even in 2002. BlueWI May 2019 #52

Hindsight is 20/20 nt NYMinute May 2019 #54

Have you noticed that some in Congress and the Senate voted against the resolution? BlueWI May 2019 #81

I get it ... when someone votes your way, it is courage NYMinute May 2019 #97

I expressed my thoughts clearly. No need to go ad hominem BlueWI May 2019 #145

Actually though, your statement about my preference BlueWI May 2019 #149

And what about... ehrnst May 2019 #88

Is the answer to every question Bernie Sanders? BlueWI May 2019 #146

Great but that hardly means it's "water under the bridge". Agschmid May 2019 #60

I meant it as NYMinute May 2019 #62

But the candidate is directly involved in that history. Agschmid May 2019 #80

And do you feel the same about Sanders and his votes in 1998? (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #93

Good question, ehrnst. Cha May 2019 #95

I do not support Sanders, and yes he should face questions as well. Agschmid May 2019 #117

I think that the defensive responses in this thread where I brought it up are telling. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #120

They sure are telling. BlueWI May 2019 #147

I am all about applying the same standard to all candidates . ehrnst May 2019 #159

If both candidates voted the same way BlueWI May 2019 #166

No, you aren't understanding what I am saying. ehrnst May 2019 #167

I suggest you stop believing everything "journalist" David Sirota writes emulatorloo May 2019 #126

Can't say I read his work. Agschmid May 2019 #129

You don't need to read him, because the work is pervasive anti-Biden anti-Beto hitpieces on the net. emulatorloo May 2019 #130

Got it. Agschmid May 2019 #131

See my full edit, just finished it emulatorloo May 2019 #132

Biden's vote needs to be discussed in a more nuanced way emmaverybo May 2019 #152

Hmm links to an article about a movie director for me? Agschmid May 2019 #155

That's one way to evade responding to the fact that Biden became a critic of the war. ehrnst May 2019 #168

Nuance is only applied to one candidate. All others are judged in good/evil no grey area terms. (nt) ehrnst May 2019 #160

How many died in 1998? ehrnst May 2019 #87

1,500 as an estimation Agschmid May 2019 #89

Actually more than 500,00 Iraqi children are estimated to have been killed in that action. ehrnst May 2019 #92

Can you send the link to the number you quote? Agschmid May 2019 #102

Certainly: ehrnst May 2019 #112

Thank you, I was pretty young back then so I don't have memories of all of it. Agschmid May 2019 #116

Moreover BannonsLiver May 2019 #47

Where does decency end and responsibility for the horrors of Iraq begin? theaocp May 2019 #65

With the people who started the war, of course. BannonsLiver May 2019 #67

That would make them indecent, I would imagine. theaocp May 2019 #68

Who do you think is responsible for the war? BannonsLiver May 2019 #69

Cheney. n/t theaocp May 2019 #70

Well we agree then. BannonsLiver May 2019 #71

It says that most are not a one issue voter, and they went with the most qualified candidate lunamagica May 2019 #79

It didn't work against both Hillary and John Kerry. nt oasis May 2019 #46

It's hyperbole. TwilightZone May 2019 #55

most of the candidates can't be judged on what they would have done treestar May 2019 #64

This message was self-deleted by its author sfwriter May 2019 #103

The good news is we have the perfect Democratic candidate who isn't fooled InAbLuEsTaTe May 2019 #114

American can do better than that. We NEED better than that. NurseJackie May 2019 #12

This message was self-deleted by its author NYMinute May 2019 #13

I bet Putin is smiling ..... NYMinute May 2019 #15

Did just that this morning on ABC liberal N proud May 2019 #18

Maybe they can just call each other theaocp May 2019 #21

Does he really have any friends in the Senate? comradebillyboy May 2019 #150

From ABC News: George II May 2019 #20

.. Cha May 2019 #100

Haha, praising Trump! Where is the crowd that comes unglued R B Garr May 2019 #23

Bernie is just trying to appeal to the economically anxious John Fante May 2019 #32

+1 NYMinute May 2019 #42

Yep mcar May 2019 #61

That's right.. omg! Where are they?!! Cha May 2019 #110

Just a reminder... LuvLoogie May 2019 #28

Not a peacenik either despite his kid glove treatment John Fante May 2019 #33

Sanders can't seem to come up with new material. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2019 #29

Who is surprised by this? Gothmog May 2019 #39

Bernie says: "vote for me because Biden voted for the Iraq War" but . . . Vidal May 2019 #43

If that were all that SBS did - attack - then I would agree. But its not. floppyboo May 2019 #104

Biden's Iraq vote is complicated, and he later became a critic emmaverybo May 2019 #45

He knows which voters he's chasing... SidDithers May 2019 #48

So, Bernie is chasing racists? theaocp May 2019 #66

Bernie is chasing white voters, who didn't mind voting for a racist in 2016... SidDithers May 2019 #72

What do you think? theaocp May 2019 #75

I agree with The Rude Pundit on this one... SidDithers May 2019 #91

Not racists, just people uncomfortable with voting for African Americans. n/t namahage May 2019 #73

So, bigots, then? theaocp May 2019 #76

No appreciable difference, really. namahage May 2019 #78

IMHO, that was Bernie Sanders' (I-VT) revmclaren May 2019 #143

Conveniently Sanders forgets he voted for the Iraq Liberation Act which was the precursor to still_one May 2019 #56

Profoundly disappointing news. DemocratSinceBirth May 2019 #58

... mcar May 2019 #59

Kissing up to murderous dictators Progressive dog May 2019 #77

It's troubling. But his supporters are eating it up. Politicub May 2019 #84

No one should EVER foget the Iraq War. floppyboo May 2019 #96

Somebody should kindly remind BS that Biden is the one who voted for: Cha May 2019 #98

Good God BannonsLiver May 2019 #101

Yes BS has opened to door to his record being exposed.. Cha May 2019 #106

Maybe it was one of those situations like gun control...missing children in Vermont are different... George II May 2019 #137

Yes BannonsLiver May 2019 #139

Cheers to Bernie for the... Mike Nelson May 2019 #111

It may not be the whole story, but it's the only one that counts floppyboo May 2019 #141

Bernie Sanders criticizes Trump all the time. NT Eric J in MN May 2019 #142

Except when he's praising tRump for his revmclaren May 2019 #144

Let's keep it real here. Bernie rags on rump all the time. He should stick to just that. nt UniteFightBack May 2019 #148

And Biden actively endorsed and campaigned for a rethug Tiggeroshii May 2019 #153

Endorsed and campaigned? No he didn't. betsuni May 2019 #154

Biden has attacked Bernie, in fact, wants to kill him because a woman Biden made Autumn May 2019 #161

You just made an accusation that Biden wants to literally "kill" Sanders in your title. still_one May 2019 #162

It's not my accusation. That's exactly what Biden said according to one of his top backers. Autumn May 2019 #163

That is garbage, and you know it. First of all you are basing it on ONE of his unamed supporters. still_one May 2019 #164

Again. Not my accusation. Got quite a few recs when the story broke. Autumn May 2019 #165

Great. Can already see us divided and losing again. Losing as in not winning in EC Laura PourMeADrink May 2019 #169

From my twitter feed Gothmog May 2019 #170