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Drunken Irishman

(34,857 posts)
88. Yes. Dean's campaign never grew into front-runner status...
Tue May 7, 2019, 09:46 PM
May 2019

They ran a guerrilla, upstart campaign that didn't transition into the role of front-runner. It was disorganized and chaotic all around, which led to, as you say, Dean volunteers hitting up the same place multiple times, which turned off a lot of voters.

Joe Trippi did a phenomenal job building a grassroots campaign but they really needed to make an adjustment in late 2003 and bring in someone with more seasoned, and professional experience. After the Iowa and New Hampshire losses, Trippi resigned and was replaced with Roy Neel, who was really close with Gore and Clinton. While a move like that would have initially been seen with skeptical eyes, since it was someone so closely tied with the party insiders Dean opposed, it would've helped organize the campaign heading into the crucial months. Instead, Tippi got 'em there but couldn't deliver.

In many ways, Dean's campaign was a near mirror-image of Eugene McCarthy's from 1968.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

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Well, yes. I think electability resides with the candidate's effectiveness PatrickforO May 2019 #1
+1 emulatorloo May 2019 #3
I agree TryLogic May 2019 #16
+1 Kurt V. May 2019 #52
Voters can only pick a candidate out of the ones running, none of whom will be perfect. Honeycombe8 May 2019 #63
Kerry was to the left of Dean emulatorloo May 2019 #2
Depends on the issue. Perception was that Dean was on the left. marylandblue May 2019 #5
"Perception" isn't always factual though. emulatorloo May 2019 #25
In politics, perception is everything. marylandblue May 2019 #26
agreed NewJeffCT May 2019 #30
but MA had gay marriage - so that does not add anything karynnj May 2019 #45
gay marriage in Mass NewJeffCT May 2019 #49
Kerry spoke against going to war before it started - essentially calling it immoral karynnj May 2019 #57
Doesn't matter NewJeffCT May 2019 #59
How do you explain that even in Iowa, Kerry got the majority of votes of those against the war? karynnj May 2019 #89
Howard Dean himself endorsed HIllary 4 years later JI7 May 2019 #90
Fair enough. Noting that The perception of 2014 primary was thaf Kerry was the stronger candidate emulatorloo May 2019 #33
Perception differed by person -- and factually Kerry had by far the more liberal record karynnj May 2019 #41
Since the 2000 election, I've become very aware of constructed narratives marylandblue May 2019 #73
Yes, I recall that, and especially after 2008, I realized electability was an empty argument. marylandblue May 2019 #4
Yeah, I consider electability to be largely a red herring argument... Wounded Bear May 2019 #12
I agree TryLogic May 2019 #15
I've never quite recovered from Mondale v Hart. crazytown May 2019 #79
I was lurking during that time and still believe Dean would have won Indygram May 2019 #6
Sorta with you zipplewrath May 2019 #7
I agree with that CNN poll on the matchup with Trump Indygram May 2019 #8
Not sold yet zipplewrath May 2019 #9
You likely did not see much of Kerry beyond the convention and the debates karynnj May 2019 #46
Kerry had the charisma of a rock Indygram May 2019 #62
You might be surprised that Beto is being compared to Kerry on twitter karynnj May 2019 #64
Those people clearly are not actually watching Beto, then Indygram May 2019 #67
i like Beto but the way you talk about him is kind of embarrassing JI7 May 2019 #68
I say Trump has "dark charisma." People love or hate him, but he is hard to ignore. marylandblue May 2019 #74
Exactly...you really simplified it, but to you, me and most here...it's dark charisma Indygram May 2019 #76
Well okay, but I don't believe that charisma is an objective quality marylandblue May 2019 #77
You are right, he's not the only one who has it... Indygram May 2019 #78
I'm honest, sometimes to a fault, and often blunt Indygram May 2019 #75
The problem with pulling out a dictionary kcr May 2019 #92
Your opinion karynnj May 2019 #69
i intend to do just that. barbtries May 2019 #10
I agree. TryLogic May 2019 #14
it wasn't. he lost Iowa before the dean scream JI7 May 2019 #18
weren't there a lot of primaries to go at that point? barbtries May 2019 #22
yes, but he was losing new Hampshire also and most of his support was from higher income whites JI7 May 2019 #24
You're missing the fact that he was a bad candidate... brooklynite May 2019 #53
so his campaign wasn't good enough. barbtries May 2019 #55
He had already lost Iowa before the Dean Scream. His candidacy was derailed by Kerry's superior emulatorloo May 2019 #31
I wasn't a supporter but that was crap. CentralMass May 2019 #61
Do you remember "Gore claimed he invented the Internet" ha ha ha ha ha .... EXCEPT MH1 May 2019 #84
and it's worse now, so much worse. barbtries May 2019 #86
lol, that's not what happened. du was mostly Dean and Clark supporters JI7 May 2019 #11
Well said n/t emulatorloo May 2019 #32
The best candidate is most likely the most electable candidate. TryLogic May 2019 #13
I think the most charismatic is the most electable. thesquanderer May 2019 #17
I don't trust the stories I hear about Trump being most afraid of Biden. TryLogic May 2019 #19
Trump doesn't play 3-Dimensional chess. emulatorloo May 2019 #34
Some of the folks who enabled him do. Never believe Trump on any subject. Never believe his enablers Ford_Prefect May 2019 #35
Which ones play 3-dimensional chess? Kellyanne? She of the bowling green massacre? emulatorloo May 2019 #65
Some can be found at the political branch of Koch industries, several must reside close to Vlad, Ford_Prefect May 2019 #66
electability 2004 vs 2016 vs 2020 Locrian May 2019 #20
Had Dean been the nominee he would have won in 2004( Dean was/is a fighter) INdemo May 2019 #21
I was very disappointed with Democrats complete submission to the MSM LiberalLovinLug May 2019 #23
Agreed. BlueWI May 2019 #58
Kerry was a much stronger candidate than Dean karynnj May 2019 #71
It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Pushed by those who want it so MarcA May 2019 #27
Did a little searching. WeekiWater May 2019 #28
Dean lost because the illustrious media intentionally misrepresented him as not a stable person still_one May 2019 #29
Why did he lose Iowa by 20 percent to Kerry before the scream happened karynnj May 2019 #70
How did Edwards got 32% from nowhere? crazytown May 2019 #80
Edwards got 30% karynnj May 2019 #82
C'mon crazytown May 2019 #83
Joe Trippi had run campaigns in Iowa before karynnj May 2019 #85
"electabiliy" is the strawman that the establishment always throws up about inspirational candidates pdsimdars May 2019 #36
Rethuglican, Ken Blackwell, Ohio Sec. of State was in charge of oasis May 2019 #37
Something Kerry never challenged Kaleva May 2019 #38
That had nothing to do with Kerry's "electability". I'm oasis May 2019 #40
The end result was that "electibility" didn't translate into being elected. Kaleva May 2019 #43
And Blackwell would've backed off if Dean had been our nominee. oasis May 2019 #44
No, it's just that "electibility" as an arguement goes nowhere Kaleva May 2019 #47
Kerry never had proof that more people who voted in Ohio voted for him karynnj May 2019 #72
Dean's problem wasn't his ability to win the General, it was his ability to win the Primary brooklynite May 2019 #39
The point is that electibility doesn't always translate to victory in November or even in a primary Kaleva May 2019 #42
Good advice.I expect more than one candidate will be electable delisen May 2019 #48
Several, as it appears right now, have a legitimate shot at winning Kaleva May 2019 #50
Oh do I remember the stolen 2000 election, still burns my ah ruffles saidsimplesimon May 2019 #51
That's all I'm saying Kaleva May 2019 #54
Thanks Kaleva, we agree. saidsimplesimon May 2019 #56
Well said. nt DesertRat May 2019 #60
I was a huge Howard Dean fan - still am - I was devastated when he lost the 2004 Iowa Caucus... Drunken Irishman May 2019 #81
The Dean campaign's ground game left a lot to be desired. Kaleva May 2019 #87
Yes. Dean's campaign never grew into front-runner status... Drunken Irishman May 2019 #88
Kerry was a flawed candidate Renew Deal May 2019 #91
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