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Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

karynnj

(61,260 posts)
70. I suspect that it is always easier to defend someone else - especially some one you love or admire
Wed Jun 12, 2019, 11:30 PM
Jun 2019

Last edited Thu Jun 13, 2019, 09:44 AM - Edit history (2)

than yourself. The more personal the accusations the harder to defend yourself.

In 1992, HRC could essentially make the case that 1) she had forgiven Bill, 2) she strongly felt that it was in the past and would have no impact on his ability to govern. She was uniquely in the position to be the one whose forgiveness was needed. As such, she had the power to diminish the impact on Bill's reputation and chances.

When you are defending yourself, there are at least two cases I can think of where it is far better to have relevant others do the defense.

One would be like the Flowers accusation where the only person hurt by the actions (Hillary) was willing to strongly argue that this would not preclude him being an excellent President and (implicitly) that their marriage was ok. Note that this had to be accompanied with Bill Clinton's admission that it happened and was wrong.

The other would be when the accusation is a lie and the person's record in that area is exceptional - to the extent defending yourself with the truth seems like bragging. 2004 was a great case of that. Kerry's fitness reports were included on his website as part of his Navy records. They showed an unusually thoughtful, compassionate leader who fostered unusual loyalty from his men -- and who won two prestigious medals for bravery in addition to his purple hearts. The media had the NAVY records that showed this -- and they should have been the ones to say that whether you agree with his politics or whether you vote for him, he had been an outstanding young officer.

I think the main problem HRC had in 2016 was with everything email related. Here, she screwed up in not leaving the email with the State Department. Then when everything came out, she tried to spin how it would be dealt with -- only to have to alter her statements a few times. If I had to guess, this was the reaction of someone whose image of herself was that of someone who follows rules -- and she does, who had a blind spot on allowing all the oversight that was required. This might have been a reaction to having everything she did put under a microscope.

Years ago, I read parts of Syd Blumenthal's book. There was a story about several Democratic Senators coming to the WH early in Bill's first term. They advised the Clinton's to just put out everything on Whitewater because they had done nothing wrong. Blumenthal recounted that it was Hillary that went ballistic when they left - angry that they would ask that.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

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She should do well in debates. She is a brilliant educator. nt tblue37 Jun 2019 #1
And she's absolutely fiery in her sense of conviction. calimary Jun 2019 #14
This message was self-deleted by its author Chin music Jun 2019 #33
You know Liz's convictions are from her gut. democrank Jun 2019 #71
"Just behind Joe Biden?" He has a double digit lead on her. MineralMan Jun 2019 #2
:) Consider the source. But Warren is passing Sanders. Hortensis Jun 2019 #13
I'm afraid that Senator Sanders is not wearing well with MineralMan Jun 2019 #15
No doubt. Reportedly lasting until the Iowa caucus Hortensis Jun 2019 #34
Warren is a better salesman for the progressive agenda. Bernie has not evolved as a campaigner TeamPooka Jun 2019 #49
Yes, she is by far. Let's not forget the enormous, devastating Hortensis Jun 2019 #56
Warren has always had my vote Boomer Jun 2019 #72
yeah, no. she played it perfectly. imho, mopinko Jun 2019 #46
The problem for Biden is I can't see Sanders supporters ever switching to him pnwmom Jun 2019 #60
That probably doesn't matter all that much in the primaries. MineralMan Jun 2019 #74
It will be critical if no one ends up with more than 50% and it goes to a brokered convention.nt pnwmom Jun 2019 #78
There won't be a brokered convention. MineralMan Jun 2019 #79
And people will drop out and endorse each other and we could end up pnwmom Jun 2019 #80
By the time of the convention, you'll see that one candidate has MineralMan Jun 2019 #81
I was talking about the primaries, not the convention. pnwmom Jun 2019 #82
I can't predict, but it will all depend on the primary votes. MineralMan Jun 2019 #83
Yes, yes, YES!!! n/t Brainstormy Jun 2019 #3
Good!!!! katmondoo Jun 2019 #4
Warrenmentum! Greg K Jun 2019 #5
I am appreciative of the fact that there are multiple NoMoreRepugs Jun 2019 #6
Great for Warren! If given the chance to speak, she's going to do well in the debates... Politicub Jun 2019 #7
She persisted. oasis Jun 2019 #8
she did! Ive got that t shirt and a lot of women comment on it! samnsara Jun 2019 #40
Definitely nervous. Warren generally polls the worst against Trump... Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #9
I don't think she has the recognition of either Biden or Sanders HopeAgain Jun 2019 #16
It is early but it is a valid concern. Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #20
No, not really.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2019 #23
Polls showed Hillary leading... Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #36
If Such Is So.... LovingA2andMI Jun 2019 #47
I was pointing to state polls. Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #48
A lot of people know only her for the Pocahontas dig. marylandblue Jun 2019 #38
I agree but first impressions are huge in politics. Drunken Irishman Jun 2019 #39
Clinton's response definitely made the difference. marylandblue Jun 2019 #44
I think HILLARY Clinton was the big help - she aggressively defended Clinton and backed him karynnj Jun 2019 #64
Yes I was surprised she could not defend herself as vigorously as she defended Bill. marylandblue Jun 2019 #69
I suspect that it is always easier to defend someone else - especially some one you love or admire karynnj Jun 2019 #70
You made good points here. blm Jun 2019 #77
I Like Her Passion yellowwoodII Jun 2019 #10
Warren is going to be our Nominee in 2020 uawchild Jun 2019 #11
No she will not! Bookmark it! Nt USALiberal Jun 2019 #22
Warren or Buttigieg. I prefer Buttigieg, but Warren is more likely, and my second choice. marylandblue Jun 2019 #41
That would be fine with me! Qutzupalotl Jun 2019 #55
I think as time wears on, Biden will drop and Warren will lead. nt Javaman Jun 2019 #12
As her exposure widens, so will her appeal pecosbob Jun 2019 #17
We're all looking for something genuine... B Stieg Jun 2019 #18
Props to Senator Warren FakeNoose Jun 2019 #19
She's Doing The Work..... LovingA2andMI Jun 2019 #21
I'm glad to see her moving up. brer cat Jun 2019 #24
I would love... Catch2.2 Jun 2019 #25
Policy & Passion are a STRONG combination malchickiwick Jun 2019 #26
Good. I like her a lot. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #27
Agreed. Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #28
If he stays true to 2016 form, he won't. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2019 #30
Yeah I supported him in 2016 Turin_C3PO Jun 2019 #32
I would love to see a battle between Warren and Biden. SouthernProgressive Jun 2019 #29
The image I see is pecosbob Jun 2019 #37
Have you heard her lately? She tells wonderful stories about her family femmedem Jun 2019 #65
That makes me happy. SunSeeker Jun 2019 #31
There is greatness in Warren's character Ponietz Jun 2019 #35
Polls generate interest but are pretty meaningless until after the first debate. Ligyron Jun 2019 #42
I'm glad to see it spinbaby Jun 2019 #43
I definitely support Warren. Lonestarblue Jun 2019 #45
I can't get that Jefferson's theme song out of my head backtoblue Jun 2019 #50
If Sanders really cared about the nation and defeating trump, he would withdraw and lunamagica Jun 2019 #51
Yeah for Senator Warren Gothmog Jun 2019 #52
I like the fact that Warren and Sanders occupy second and third spots. LiberalLovinLug Jun 2019 #53
GO LIZ! 50 Shades Of Blue Jun 2019 #54
Yea for Elizabeth! She is working hard. Irishxs Jun 2019 #57
I like the story she told to Chris Hayes KrazyinKS Jun 2019 #58
Liz will kick Trumps ass 1 on 1 saljr1 Jun 2019 #59
Very nice, Elizabeth Warren. Very nice. aikoaiko Jun 2019 #61
Good! G_j Jun 2019 #62
The debates should be interesting.. ariesgem Jun 2019 #63
Definitely siphoning off Sanders supporters madville Jun 2019 #66
I love hearing this!!!!! nt Quixote1818 Jun 2019 #67
I can't wait until the debates. And I'm getting so f**king excited about Liz. ancianita Jun 2019 #68
She is like the perfect school principle, the one who refused to leave anyone behind. McCamy Taylor Jun 2019 #73
Go Liz! jimlup Jun 2019 #75
She Is Coming On Strong colsohlibgal Jun 2019 #76
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