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The Velveteen Ocelot

(130,587 posts)
14. "Policy" sometimes turns out to be how many angels are dancing on
Sun Jul 7, 2019, 01:05 PM
Jul 2019

the head of a particular candidate's pin. All of the candidates favor certain broad policies and goals as advocated by the Democratic party: Universal health care, women's reproductive rights, plans to deal with climate change, tax laws that don't unfairly favor the wealthy, regulation of the financial sector, a living wage for everyone, affordable higher education, humane and manageable immigration, care for the environment, enforcement of civil rights laws, support for LGBT and minority rights, support for NATO and other international alliances, protecting our elections, etc. But there are differences among the candidates as to how these broad goals should be accomplished.

As a result it is easy to get so tangled up in arguments over the means that sometimes we forget about the end. For example, should we have Medicare for All or improvements to the ACA that include both private insurance and a public option? How do we do it? What will it cost? How will it be paid for? How long will it take? And in trying to answer these questions, all of which of course are completely legitimate, we can lose sight of the fact that the plans and their particulars are aspirational only - because any plan will have to make it through Congress, where the process has been compared to the making of sausage. A candidate's proposals tell us a lot about his/her political philosophy but we have to remember that, as Mick Jagger once said, you can't always get what you want.

What I'm saying, I guess, is that concentrating exclusively on policy (sometimes ad nauseam) ignores the fact that most voters don't care about how we get there as long as we have some reasonable chance to get there. Promising something like Medicare for All doesn't mean we'll ever get it; it means only that the candidate who promises it has a political philosophy that supports such a system. That's important to know, of course, but political philosophies don't win elections. When you're dealing with an enormous electorate with a broad range of desires, goals and attitudes it will come down to popularity - or charisma or personality if that's what you want to call it.

A campaign is a marketing event. An election is closing the sale. Trump won 2016 on the basis of his (fake) reputation as a successful businessman plus heavy doses of bullshit. He had no definable, detailed policies at all, only vague promises that appealed to the desires and fears of a certain segment of the electorate. Assisted by the Russians and a number of other things that went sideways for Clinton, it was enough for him to win the electoral college. The point is that wonkery only goes so far. I think it's great that Warren, for example, has worked out her plans and can explain exactly what they are and what they will cost. This tells me a whole lot about how she thinks. But for her to actually win the election she will have to engage and excite voters, not only about her plans but about herself. This goes equally for all of them, of course. It's all about closing the sale. Policy details take a back seat in general elections, which is why I'm not getting all wrapped around the axles about the details. Any candidate who supports the general principles of the party and can sell him/herself to voters well enough to beat Trump has my support. In the end that's all that matters.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

policy can change rampartc Jul 2019 #1
Policies always change, to suit the current situation. MineralMan Jul 2019 #2
Charisma and the ability to inspire and motivate is what wins elections Indygram Jul 2019 #27
It's all about personality and narrative. dalton99a Jul 2019 #3
Exactly. Most people make most decisions on that basis. MineralMan Jul 2019 #4
Wait a minute. In another thread (your own OP, in fact) Ron Green Jul 2019 #34
Actually, no. The GND is a policy document, even without MineralMan Jul 2019 #40
It's the most effective environmental branding since the Cayuhoga River caught fire. marylandblue Jul 2019 #51
Quite true, I'm afraid. Here's an anecdote from recent personal experience: Mister Ed Jul 2019 #8
And there you are. In a nutshell. MineralMan Jul 2019 #41
It's not either-or. Often policy is presented as personality and vice versa. ancianita Jul 2019 #5
Populism won in 2016. MineralMan Jul 2019 #7
Right. And that calls for engaging the aspirations of the populace, and how right they are to have ancianita Jul 2019 #10
The average non-wonk voter thinks that policy MineralMan Jul 2019 #12
That's a very disparaging thing to say about the voters. bluewater Jul 2019 #15
I agree completely with mineralman. You may think it disparaging, most are not informed at all Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #17
Why does it have to be about mind reading. Why can't it be about the long term experience of ancianita Jul 2019 #20
Let me ask you this: Who is the current President of the United States? MineralMan Jul 2019 #23
So issues like the economy weren't a factor? Just prejudices? bluewater Jul 2019 #30
Indeed! Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #36
Yes, Trump lied to the voters about that, and everything else. MineralMan Jul 2019 #42
Yes. In that lies our problem. I want a lot of policy that I don't personally benefit from, but as ancianita Jul 2019 #19
It's complicated, isn't it? MineralMan Jul 2019 #22
Yes. But we here make it worse with infighting. So I say, let the country look over our policies ancianita Jul 2019 #25
We have to present a unified vision, not a fragmented, disputed one. MineralMan Jul 2019 #29
Fair enough. We only dispute the likelihood of their getting to the presidency by the larger voting ancianita Jul 2019 #33
Yes we do!! And anyone who thinks the repukes are not reading what we write...wrong Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #37
Both Chitown Kev Jul 2019 #6
Kamala Harris has likability going for her - in a big way, actually. MineralMan Jul 2019 #9
and let's not underestimate this... Chitown Kev Jul 2019 #16
Hmm...I really tend to ignore that in terms of politics. MineralMan Jul 2019 #18
And for that very fact alone I say we must lower the voting age to 12, the age that kids can follow ancianita Jul 2019 #28
Agree here's another fact. Newspapers most, write for the level of a 6th grader..so yeah about 12 Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #38
Yes, they do, and they write to that level because research shows them MineralMan Jul 2019 #43
Well...maybe the same applied to Obama...and Clinton... Chitown Kev Jul 2019 #46
The... DemocratSinceBirth Jul 2019 #11
That's what history should have taught us. MineralMan Jul 2019 #13
"Policy" sometimes turns out to be how many angels are dancing on The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2019 #14
Very well said! MineralMan Jul 2019 #24
Unfortunately, I think this is largely true peggysue2 Jul 2019 #21
Before you can market the message, you must make sure it is marketable. MineralMan Jul 2019 #26
That's absolutely true, MM peggysue2 Jul 2019 #35
Sorry, but when it boils down to it, it's math and a map. Amimnoch Jul 2019 #31
That's right! Thekaspervote Jul 2019 #39
congress legislates not president AlexSFCA Jul 2019 #32
Great policies make a candidate popular. BeckyDem Jul 2019 #44
Not necessarily. What polices of Trump's are good? MineralMan Jul 2019 #45
It's a mass cognitive deficiency, as I see it. Today's Washington Post/ABC News Poll shows it. ancianita Jul 2019 #48
This message was self-deleted by its author marylandblue Jul 2019 #52
Huh? ancianita Jul 2019 #54
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply you personally made fun of anyone. marylandblue Jul 2019 #55
It's fine. I just wanted to address your concern and re-explain my post, is all. No apology needed. ancianita Jul 2019 #58
The candidates we have are pushing policies that are already popular. BeckyDem Jul 2019 #49
Joe Biden Is The Only Democrat With A Clear Advantage Over Trump In New Poll Gothmog Jul 2019 #47
It's not an either or with policy or personality and it's not a one size fits all approach. marylandblue Jul 2019 #50
I'd have to say personality customerserviceguy Jul 2019 #53
anger wins beachbum bob Jul 2019 #56
We absolutely MUST have an Electoral College strategy this time. CTyankee Jul 2019 #57
Here is some great polling Gothmog Jul 2019 #59
For democrats, policy with a mannerism where the candidate interact with people. Blue_true Jul 2019 #60
in 2020... myohmy2 Jul 2019 #61
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