Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search
Joe BidenCongratulations to our presumptive Democratic nominee, Joe Biden!
 

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)
162. When we don't hold our own candidates to account, then the GOP will in the General.
Fri Jul 12, 2019, 06:00 PM
Jul 2019

Bernie was claiming that Swallwell was being ageist when he said that Biden 'had his chance, so he should pass the torch."

Bernie said that was ageism, and that Swallwell was just talking about Biden's age being the reason that Biden should drop out, and that ageism was comparable to racism or sexism.... which is what many of his rivals for POTUS have actually experienced.


MADDOW: The last question for you and it is a little bit of sticky wicket
and I do not want you to be annoyed for asking. But it is the thing –
when I talked to people about having on the show today, it was the number
one thing people wanted me to ask you about, which was the issue raised by
Eric Swalwell, who has now dropped out of the race for president, in the
debate, when he – and he directed it to Vice President Biden and his
refrain was pass the torch. That you`ve had your chance, you`ve been in
politics for a long time and we need younger leadership basically.

Basically making an overt age argument for why Vice President Biden
shouldn`t be the nominee and implicitly why you shouldn`t be the nominee.
You called that ageist after the debate. But I wonder how you grapple with
the substance of that argument.

SANDERS: You know, if you look at history, there were arguments why black
people shouldn`t be president, why women shouldn`t be president.

There were some people who are 90 who are a lot more active and energetic than people who are 50.
You have to look at what somebody believes, what somebody is fighting for,
what their experience is about. Just to look at age is I think missing the
boat in a very, very deep way.


MADDOW: But he is talking about length of experience in the political system.

SANDERS: Yes.


Then when Maddow goes on to talk about how Swalwell was talking about experience not JUST age, Sanders then tries to change the topic to his talking points, and then repeats the accusation Swalwell is ignoring Biden's experience, not referring to it, and is therefore ageist.


MADDOW: I mean, you`ve been in public office since before Eric Swalwell
was born. I mean, he`s saying, people who have been in the system, who`ve
been trying all this time to make change, you need to get out of the way so
that new voices can (INAUDIBLE).

SANDERS: And what is his – those people`s positions? Do they believe in
Medicare-for-All? Have they fought to raise the minimum wage? Have they
been a leader in tackling the issues of climate change? Have they been on
picket lines their whole life standing with working people, been active in
the women`s movement, active in the gay movement?

In other words, it`s just not good enough to say, hey, I`m young. Pass me
the torch.


http://www.msnbc.com/transcripts/rachel-maddow-show/2019-07-10

(who is not) of saying that people should vote for them "just because they're... latina...woman...young...

Because, according to Bernie, anyone who isn't an older white male that he is running against/doesn't approve of is liable to do that...
Again, and again, like so many times before, he sees such candidates as being prone to wield their non-old white male status as the ONLY reason to vote for them, not experience or a record of acheivement that rivals his. His status quo characterization of someone who dares to challenge him while not being a white male.

"It's not good enough for somebody to say 'hey I'm a Latina vote for me' that is not good enough.

"It is not good enough for somebody to say, 'I'm a woman, vote for me.' No That is not good enough,"
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/11/21/sanders-identity-politics/94221972/
If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden

Recommendations

0 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

I have hopes that sanders will not get 300 delegates to the national convention Gothmog Jul 2019 #1
I have hopes that Sanders acknowledges that. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #2
What right have you to make this comment? watoos Jul 2019 #5
What right doesn't the poster have to make that comment? NT SouthernProgressive Jul 2019 #7
I have found that there are certain candidates watoos Jul 2019 #10
That completely ignores a majority of reality... SouthernProgressive Jul 2019 #12
+1000. ehrnst Jul 2019 #74
Speaking truth there redstateblues Jul 2019 #77
Try reading some posts about Harris too mcar Jul 2019 #44
"I see a repeat of 2016 if Democrats fall for the right wing narrative..." myohmy2 Jul 2019 #105
They rep that wing of the party. The majority of the party are represented by others. brush Jul 2019 #159
Hell. sheshe2 Jul 2019 #106
Take it up with Admin if you don't think the "rules don't apply" on DU. ehrnst Jul 2019 #119
sanders will not be the nominee Gothmog Jul 2019 #9
Not a smart idea watoos Jul 2019 #13
Actual Democrats have a D after their name. we can do it Jul 2019 #15
If sanders is the nominee, trump wins 45+ states Gothmog Jul 2019 #17
That's not what head-to-head Trump vs. Sanders polls say. He's second to Biden. thesquanderer Jul 2019 #18
In the real world, sanders is not electable Gothmog Jul 2019 #19
Biden dropped out radical noodle Jul 2019 #33
Well, are any of the other Dem candidates who are not Dems when they serve in their job as reps? ehrnst Jul 2019 #76
... sheshe2 Jul 2019 #107
I keep hearing about us not ready for a female President, but... TreasonousBastard Jul 2019 #79
Not to mention the rare instance of a party holding the WH for more than two consecutive terms... ehrnst Jul 2019 #109
This post does my heart good. And on top of all that, won by 3 million. silentEcho Jul 2019 #126
Same here! eom BlueMTexpat Jul 2019 #127
Gothmog is a member of this board mcar Jul 2019 #40
LOLOL nini Jul 2019 #46
Every right in the World. Cha Jul 2019 #69
You think people shouldn't have the right to say that they hope a candidate won't win? ehrnst Jul 2019 #75
So you support a candidate that you don't think "will do more for blacks or women" than the others. ehrnst Jul 2019 #118
+1 happy feet Jul 2019 #136
Yes please. NurseJackie Jul 2019 #26
Yes, old white men have never gotten serious consideration as POTUS...or proportional representation ehrnst Jul 2019 #3
Bye Felicia Me. Jul 2019 #4
Yes please. NurseJackie Jul 2019 #27
... Me. Jul 2019 #34
I hope that there is acceptance when it comes this time. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #85
Counseling May Be Needed Me. Jul 2019 #86
When one refuses any counsel that doesn't agree lockstep with them... ehrnst Jul 2019 #87
I am convinced he will not get the nomination Watchfoxheadexplodes Jul 2019 #6
WOW ! stonecutter357 Jul 2019 #8
Because older white heterosexual males have been sooo underrepresented.. Amimnoch Jul 2019 #11
K&R betsuni Jul 2019 #14
Have fun bashing Bernie, watoos Jul 2019 #16
Bashing? No. TwilightZone Jul 2019 #21
Meh, I really want Elizabeth The Mouth Jul 2019 #47
I agree with you on Elizabeth being the most qualified woman to run for President... InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #78
In terms of economic knowledge The Mouth Jul 2019 #117
Elizabeth needs to be on the ticket... period! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #134
You have Mayor Pete as your DU preferred candidate because "it freaks out the cons?" ehrnst Jul 2019 #120
No The Mouth Jul 2019 #131
It is sad that in a very important primary you are looking for chaos and destruction within silentEcho Jul 2019 #137
because jewish people have never been persecuted? questionseverything Jul 2019 #92
He's not talking about anti-semitism. Read the transcript if you don't believe me. ehrnst Jul 2019 #121
Nobody is doing that. NurseJackie Jul 2019 #29
HELLO.. those were BS' own words. Please Cha Jul 2019 #71
He compared people saying he was old to actual racial and gender discrimination. ehrnst Jul 2019 #114
Oh, we are having fun. BannonsLiver Jul 2019 #154
As usual. Carefully crafted edits churn the outrage. Autumn Jul 2019 #20
I understood exactly what he meant and I stand by this post completely Soph0571 Jul 2019 #22
I understood EVERYTHING he said to Rachel, not just what she selected and I consider Hawaii D to Autumn Jul 2019 #24
Gotta fire up the outrage Wurlitzer somehow. Lol. Hassin Bin Sober Jul 2019 #39
I see that Lobster guy is still grifting. Autumn Jul 2019 #43
The outrage Wurlitzer. Ain't that the truth. JudyM Jul 2019 #64
Like you do about the DNC and the "establishment". BannonsLiver Jul 2019 #155
as you know, I am no fan of Bernie (for a multitude of reasons) but this tweet in the OP is a Celerity Jul 2019 #53
I know your not and I respect you for being truthful. Autumn Jul 2019 #55
Swallwell's comment wasn't about or to anyone but Biden. It concerned Biden's career as a Senator ehrnst Jul 2019 #124
Maddow was the one who drew the comparison with her question Celerity Jul 2019 #128
She was also describing what people wanted her to ask him about... ehrnst Jul 2019 #132
then she rebutted her own inference (which came via her own question) Celerity Jul 2019 #140
So when Maddow rebuts rebuts his characterization that Swalwell was *only* talking about age ehrnst Jul 2019 #142
Active in the woman's movement? No, not at all. silentEcho Jul 2019 #145
This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Jul 2019 #150
Sanders states he was active in woman's movement. He wasn't and is not active in WM silentEcho Jul 2019 #152
Ah, I see now. ehrnst Jul 2019 #157
again, Maddow brought it up first, I get you do not like that, as it does fit the narrative Celerity Jul 2019 #147
So, now I'm the one "trying to sell a narrative..." ehrnst Jul 2019 #158
You're spot on as usual Autumn...but then, some never miss an opportunity to bash Bernie... InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #80
+1 Go Vols Jul 2019 #93
Good to see you. I missed your posts. Autumn Jul 2019 #97
Yes, Bernie is exempt from any critiques of his statements but positive ones. ehrnst Jul 2019 #123
Actually, Amanda B. Reckonwith has the bullshit tweet. ehrnst Jul 2019 #125
Bazinga! George II Jul 2019 #133
soph...jews historically have faced many barriers questionseverything Jul 2019 #94
It's so trivializing of the structural impediments tishaLA Jul 2019 #23
Exactly.. so tone deaf. Cha Jul 2019 #72
I'm not a Bernie fan, but NewJeffCT Jul 2019 #25
This is his "all lives matter" moment. Remember Martin O'Malley? Politicub Jul 2019 #28
I didn't watch Rachel last night radical noodle Jul 2019 #30
I deliberately skipped Rachel last night, for the same reason. Paladin Jul 2019 #35
My thoughts exactly Paladin n/t radical noodle Jul 2019 #36
Ditto! n/t Tarheel_Dem Jul 2019 #108
I don't think I understand your argument or that of HawaiiDelilah ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #31
In politics, there' s never been a barrier due to advanced age, rather the opposite KitSileya Jul 2019 #48
the "on par" part seems to be putting the argument's strength as equally dumb as arguments ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #50
Agreed (nt) mr_lebowski Jul 2019 #51
The real ageism is the actual legal prohibition against under-35s dawg day Jul 2019 #59
those are good, and undeniable, points ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #61
Exactly-- age has never been a real disqualifier for holding office, unlike gender and race dawg day Jul 2019 #58
that's a stupid take on this ProfessorPlum Jul 2019 #60
Ageism is still cool with some people The Mouth Jul 2019 #49
As can Jews. JudyM Jul 2019 #63
ty for saying this, i was beginning to think i had fallen down the rabbit hole questionseverything Jul 2019 #95
Again... when did Swallwell talk about Jews needing to "pass the torch" to someone else? ehrnst Jul 2019 #138
When did Swallwell say that Jews should not be considered for POTUS? ehrnst Jul 2019 #135
Sad, but true. InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #82
Lord knows old white men face ALL kinds of discrimination in running for office... ehrnst Jul 2019 #112
Not clear on what you mean. The Mouth Jul 2019 #116
Sanders has dismissed issues of race or gender discrimination as "identity politics" ehrnst Jul 2019 #122
Thanks for the clarification The Mouth Jul 2019 #130
I hear ya. ehrnst Jul 2019 #139
Old people, fat people and Christians. Everyone else is protected. Clash City Rocker Jul 2019 #129
Is that what you think "pass the torch" meant? Bashing old people? ehrnst Jul 2019 #141
Maybe, or perhaps a distinction without all that much difference The Mouth Jul 2019 #143
Bernie literally stated that Swalwell was "just looking at age" and 'ignoring' experience. ehrnst Jul 2019 #146
I thought Sanders himself called that establishment and campaigned on getting those people out. silentEcho Jul 2019 #148
Apparently. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2019 #156
this is a nothing burger yaesu Jul 2019 #32
Well, privilege is a wonderful thing for some. ehrnst Jul 2019 #88
Discrimination is discrimination...whether that's based on gender, ethnicity, age, etc. TCJ70 Jul 2019 #37
Post removed Post removed Jul 2019 #38
I think calling Harris an asshole makes for a horse shit post. MrsCoffee Jul 2019 #41
What does Harris have to do with the OP? SouthernProgressive Jul 2019 #45
Bernie should drop out Vegas Roller Jul 2019 #42
The video in post #37 proves that the tweet in the OP is nothing more than slander against Sanders mtnsnake Jul 2019 #52
Situation normal!! I understand the desperation though to bash Bernie!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #83
Using his own words is "bashing?" ehrnst Jul 2019 #89
It was in response to a to a statement that Biden is to old to run,and what he thought about it. Go Vols Jul 2019 #96
No, even Maddow rebutted that Swalwell was also talking about his extensive career... ehrnst Jul 2019 #151
+1, I saw his comment live and cringed. What a yuge gaffe. R B Garr Jul 2019 #102
And he pulls out his old chestnut of he's accusing someone ehrnst Jul 2019 #153
Well... Mike Nelson Jul 2019 #54
Was there some mitigating context? dawg day Jul 2019 #56
When we don't hold our own candidates to account, then the GOP will in the General. ehrnst Jul 2019 #162
Bernie said nothing wrong. Ageism is as wrong as sexism and racism. Princetonian Jul 2019 #57
I agree. JudyM Jul 2019 #62
Thank you for that comment. YOHABLO Jul 2019 #65
Okay.. take away the Cha Jul 2019 #70
You can't take away the old. The question he was asked was specifically about age. TCJ70 Jul 2019 #73
+1 Me. Jul 2019 #103
.. Cha Jul 2019 #104
100%!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #81
Just go home Bernie. redstatebluegirl Jul 2019 #66
Bernie IS home... right where he belongs, sittin among the top contenders InAbLuEsTaTe Jul 2019 #84
Who cares what he said in that interview!!!!! Doesn't matter at all!!!! ehrnst Jul 2019 #144
And what he really means is.... silentEcho Jul 2019 #149
How many "some 90 year olds" are more active than 50 year olds? MarcA Jul 2019 #67
Who do you think would be the first to rebel against that? ehrnst Jul 2019 #90
K&R Tarheel_Dem Jul 2019 #68
Every single time he mentions black people ecstatic Jul 2019 #91
guess it depends which filter you are using floppyboo Jul 2019 #98
I regret what I wrote ecstatic Jul 2019 #99
mlk knew it was the poor people against the 1%ers questionseverything Jul 2019 #100
He does have some standing in this topic Lordquinton Jul 2019 #101
He was talking about AGE, not religion, and discrimination of POC and women running for office. ehrnst Jul 2019 #110
Isn't that playing the "Identity politics card," Bernie? ehrnst Jul 2019 #111
and those arguments are?... robbedvoter Jul 2019 #113
None that were ever, ever used against an older white male candidate... ehrnst Jul 2019 #115
Oh brother Bayard Jul 2019 #160
No, he was misrepresenting Swalwells's statement as "just looking at age, and not experience. ehrnst Jul 2019 #161
Latest Discussions»Retired Forums»Democratic Primaries»Bernie. Don't go there. ...»Reply #162