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Democratic Primaries

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Goodheart

(5,264 posts)
Thu Aug 1, 2019, 06:54 PM Aug 2019

Unless the "public option" is free or inexpensive it's snake oil.. and dangerous snake oil at that. [View all]

I'll start this discussion by stating that I consider Biden's and Bennet's debate performances last night as failures. They both insist that adding a "public option" to the ACA is the healthcare system we all should have, but what does that public option actually mean to a consumer? HOW MUCH would my premiums and deductibles be relative to a comparable plan provided by private insurance? THAT'S the most important question, and neither proffered an answer.

So let's address the proposal to keep the ACA:

The ACA should not be a Democratic sacred cow just because it began with the Obama Administration and is better than what we had previously. Even President Obama considered it only a stepping stone (albeit a significant one) on our way to single payer health CARE, as opposed to profit-dominated private health INSURANCE. So, why did he SETTLE for the ACA instead of single payer? Well, because it was constructed upon a Heritage Foundation concept he thought (naively) that he could at least get a few Republicans to agree to the plan, ostensibly unaware that all those Republicans had made a compact among themselves to thwart ANY and all programs that Obama might chalk up as achievements.

Most important in its consideration, in my view, is that the Affordable Care Act is certainly not "affordable" for many Americans... 27 MILLION of us are STILL uninsured. And then there are millions of people such as myself, who barely earned $50k last year but had to fork over $900+ per month, for just myself as a single person, for medical premiums under an ACA-subsidized plan.

Second, "insurance" companies, their executives, and their agents do not wield stethoscopes and scalpels. They don't operate cat-scan machines nor perform operations. They exist to generate PROFITS. And make no mistake about it... they generate ENORMOUS profits. And any and all profits that go to such middlemen could otherwise be directed to health care, itself. We already have real world examples... should I list them? Canada, the UK, France, Scandinavia, Japan, Australia... all of whom have better health CARE delivery than our own, not to mention greater life expectancies.

So, is adding a "public option" to this present mixture a way to reduce overall costs of health care? Please tell me how, because Joe Biden certainly hasn't. How would it eliminate private insurance as the primary element in our health care allocation system? How would it eliminate those PROFITS?

Well, I'll tell you how (again, Biden certainly hasn't) it COULD work. If we're going to have a "public option" on top of the ACA then its premiums must be free or nearly free, in order that employers can eliminate arrangements with private insurers and have their employees move to the public option, or purchase group public option plans themselves. Eventually, private insurance would be replaced as our dominant factor by the sheer weight of its expense to consumers.

So why is the public option "dangerous" at COMPETITIVE rates (i.e. market rates determined by the private insurance companies)? Because unless those rates are actually significantly better they will be perceived as pointless, endangering their very existence, and thus eliminating a movement to government assistance for universal care altogether.

I CAN NOT support your "public option" Joe unless you tell me it's going to be free or inexpensive. Right now you are endangering the future of universal health care.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
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'Nothing in this life is free'. mia Aug 2019 #1
Actually a lot of things in life are free Farmer-Rick Aug 2019 #51
Medicare is not going to be affordable for many Americans either. Hoyt Aug 2019 #2
Medicare is affordable for every Canadian, every Australian, every Brit, every Swede, .... Goodheart Aug 2019 #6
So, is the U.S., a nation of over 300 million people, elocs Aug 2019 #9
Especially in two years... None of those countries who have single payer could ehrnst Aug 2019 #16
It's as if "we'll just flip a switch" and have Medicare for All, elocs Aug 2019 #25
And not just replicate... Docreed2003 Aug 2019 #26
US is 80% urban and 20% rural in 2017 pangaia Aug 2019 #27
Thank you for the correction. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2019 #28
funny isn't it that urbanists are called elite when they are by far far far the majority... pangaia Aug 2019 #32
There you go... LiberalFighter Aug 2019 #40
interesting idea.... what about the suburbs ? pangaia Aug 2019 #41
That's way it's a shit slogan to run on ismnotwasm Aug 2019 #45
Medicare for All or Universal Health Care Bettie Aug 2019 #63
Saying that is a cop out. We need to talk in realistic terms. We need all the facts and truthfully wasupaloopa Aug 2019 #54
The elephant in the room: "M4A will not be enacted anytime soon." elocs Aug 2019 #8
Fixing the damage done to the ACA is going to be the way to get the most people healthcare ehrnst Aug 2019 #29
Biden did answer this. thesquanderer Aug 2019 #3
Thank you for providing the quote emulatorloo Aug 2019 #4
Where's PRICE in that? Goodheart Aug 2019 #5
re: "And what you said in your first sentence already exists under the ACA" thesquanderer Aug 2019 #12
The rest will pay up to 8.5 % of their incomes until they, too, are also broke. mia Aug 2019 #7
There's no plan for free healthcare for everyone, from ANYONE. thesquanderer Aug 2019 #11
Is that the same as: mia Aug 2019 #13
Biden's plan works exactly the way the ACA works, why is anyone confused/surprised? thesquanderer Aug 2019 #15
No he didn't. He didn't speak to what the KPN Aug 2019 #31
Bravo. Goodheart Aug 2019 #35
re: "He didn't speak to what the View profile premium will be whatsoever." thesquanderer Aug 2019 #36
If he's capping deductable then it's more than 5% cheaper uponit7771 Aug 2019 #56
I guess, if you tend to spend at least $1k of your deductible. thesquanderer Aug 2019 #57
That has some consequences. There have to be limits to who gets that public option, ehrnst Aug 2019 #37
re: "unless premiums are charged on a sliding scale, charging more for those who make more" thesquanderer Aug 2019 #44
First, no, the ACA subsidies aren't just a sliding scale - it involves more than income. ehrnst Aug 2019 #47
Employers today can choose the plan they want to offer. thesquanderer Aug 2019 #48
I will assume nothing before I see Biden's public option plan. ehrnst Aug 2019 #49
That's an issue of states choosing not to participate. thesquanderer Aug 2019 #55
That's the states not using substitute that's not the ACA uponit7771 Aug 2019 #60
I have no idea what that sentence means. (nt) ehrnst Aug 2019 #61
TheBrits and others enacted govt funded hlth care post WWII. We missed the boat Thekaspervote Aug 2019 #10
"If you want to cut your own personal health care costs, take better care of yourself" Act_of_Reparation Aug 2019 #17
Seems pretty obvious to me. BannonsLiver Aug 2019 #22
So those who make bad choices in your eyes should pay more? cynatnite Aug 2019 #24
No. BannonsLiver Aug 2019 #30
Got it. cynatnite Aug 2019 #34
In some countries with UHC, people are bumped down the list for ehrnst Aug 2019 #50
The operative word being "seems" Act_of_Reparation Aug 2019 #62
That's what my daughter told my grandson while she was pregnant... cynatnite Aug 2019 #20
Europe had a lot of wounded to take care of because of the war IronLionZion Aug 2019 #21
The ACA Mend it don't end it. nt UniteFightBack Aug 2019 #14
Calling these things "free" is snake oil. NT SouthernProgressive Aug 2019 #18
Pretending that government doesn't exists to help people kcr Aug 2019 #46
My usual post. Everyman Jackal Aug 2019 #19
There will be no private insurance option if the public option is open to "anyone who wants it" ehrnst Aug 2019 #38
I don't want a public option. Everyman Jackal Aug 2019 #42
+1, We already have a single payer system and a lot of VAs work pretty good from what I've heard... uponit7771 Aug 2019 #64
A VA type system for everyone is fine but not the same system. Everyman Jackal Aug 2019 #67
Nonsense premise, including the RW "free" smear that has no Hortensis Aug 2019 #23
+1000.(nt) ehrnst Aug 2019 #39
Medicare for America (the plan Beto O'Rourke endorses) Indygram Aug 2019 #33
Fighting over the details of their healthcare proposals won't help them beat Donald Trump Gothmog Aug 2019 #43
Nothing is free! Somebody has to pay. We need to make it vey clear that there will be no free wasupaloopa Aug 2019 #52
I loved the idea of single payer, but one concern bothers me. lark Aug 2019 #53
I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. subterranean Aug 2019 #58
Despite the fact that I'm on Medicare, last year's out-of-pocket medical expenses totaled $9,000. greatauntoftriplets Aug 2019 #59
Medicare Needs Fixing iwannaknow Aug 2019 #66
I do not see a public option being passed (let alone MFA) Celerity Aug 2019 #65
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