Democratic Primaries

dpibel

(3,868 posts)

95. I'm sorry.

Wed Oct 16, 2019, 11:15 PM

Oct 2019

We're on the same side here, I believe.

See my other posts in this thread.

I cannot comprehend the argument that, although the U.S. currently spends $3.5 trillion a year on health care, there is something threatening and catastrophic about instead spending $34 trillion over a decade (by my math, less money), except having that money administered by the government instead of for-profit corporations.

Yes. We are being scammed. Both by the insurance companies and by the doomsayers who say that the U.S. can't do what every civilized country in the world has been doing for years.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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The eye-popping cost of Medicare for All [View all] Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 OP

How much is that counted in Trident Missiles? Hekate Oct 2019 #1

2,461 Ford class nuclear carriers (complete with electromagnetic launch systems) lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #23

No wonder EW doesn't want to talk about it. Really pleased this has come out. Voters need to know Thekaspervote Oct 2019 #2

Voters need to know that they will save $ when their new taxes are less than their current premiums. LonePirate Oct 2019 #8

It's funny how supporters never talk about how much the median taxpayer will save either... brooklynite Oct 2019 #11

Even if the savings are as low as 5%-10%, it's still a massive benefit for the country. LonePirate Oct 2019 #17

Well what are they then? qazplm135 Oct 2019 #28

For whom? Is that a serious question? Do you honestly think the average American will pay more? LonePirate Oct 2019 #33

yes it's a serious question qazplm135 Oct 2019 #35

Why would a Dem implement a system where the typical person pays more? How would that pass? LonePirate Oct 2019 #41

lol qazplm135 Oct 2019 #47

What's amusing is you thinking a Dem President can force Congress to pass such a bill. LonePirate Oct 2019 #49

What's amusing is you think qazplm135 Oct 2019 #58

have you lived in this country lately dsc Oct 2019 #160

consider recent history-- the cost of insurance under the ACA eilen Oct 2019 #144

You have no proof of what you say. wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #22

Why do you believe an MFA system implemented by Dems will increase costs to the average American? LonePirate Oct 2019 #32

for many of us, it isn't US that saves money on those premiums lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #27

if Congress has the wherewithal to pass an MFA bill, corporate taxes will definitely increase. LonePirate Oct 2019 #60

The "pound of Flesh" extracted by the repukes for lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #61

I am all for a tax increase since I would no longer pay premiums, co-pays, deductibles, meds, etc. LonePirate Oct 2019 #62

good - I'm guessing you don't have a decent employer provided ( or union provided ) plan -n/t lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #63

I have great insurance. I will still be better off under MFA as will you and every other American. LonePirate Oct 2019 #64

maybe the "insurance" will be fine... lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #65

Now take your preposterous 14% increase and start deducting everything you no longer pay for. LonePirate Oct 2019 #66

I have a decent insurance plan... medical, dental, vision lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #67

Nice, it sounds like you got yours BBG Oct 2019 #92

Copays and deductibles? Act_of_Reparation Oct 2019 #183

Look at all the anger here earlier from wealthy people who had their SALT deductions limited to 10K MichMan Oct 2019 #68

Not every American. Some who pay very little for employer-provided good quality plans won't be emmaverybo Oct 2019 #128

You can focus on selfish outliers. Real Democrats like me will focus on the good for all of society. LonePirate Oct 2019 #129

Many have very low co-pays,no deductibles, prescriptions never more than $15 and usually about emmaverybo Oct 2019 #134

Medicare pays for 80% for hospitalization eilen Oct 2019 #145

Corporate taxes are ultimately passed on to the consumer MichMan Oct 2019 #153

Yes elleng Oct 2019 #51

Societal Savings are not tax revenues and this plan will not work in the real world Gothmog Oct 2019 #122

What do you think happens to the premiums deducted from paychecks under an MFA plan? LonePirate Oct 2019 #124

You keep saying this. Can you tell me what you mean? dpibel Oct 2019 #132

Read the studies being used to support these single payer plans Gothmog Oct 2019 #167

Friend, dpibel Oct 2019 #169

Again, you have to pay for these programs with tax revenues and not societal savings Gothmog Oct 2019 #171

Again, dpibel Oct 2019 #172

I read and understood the material Gothmog Oct 2019 #174

And you still won't say what "societal savings" means dpibel Oct 2019 #175

Deepest apologies dpibel Oct 2019 #181

A dose of reality for Medicare-for-all Gothmog Oct 2019 #190

Read the material Gothmog Oct 2019 #184

Did you actuall read the material and that is what you got from it Gothmog Oct 2019 #185

Nobody has ever been able to specifically quantify the "savings" that would result, nor... George II Oct 2019 #186

EXACTLY RIGHT!! InAbLuEsTaTe Oct 2019 #176

how many people know what DRG is? Medicare effectively sets a max cost and once any provider hits beachbumbob Oct 2019 #3

34 trillion vs 1.7 trillion over 10 years wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #4

This is just bullshit. Other developed nations are able to provide healthcare for all at a fraction Doodley Oct 2019 #5

Read the article and the links provided Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #7

A "Left leaning" study in America is far right by the standards of most Doodley Oct 2019 #82

You're not in the UK Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #84

What shit? What are you talking about? Listen to yourself. Doodley Oct 2019 #87

Back at you Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #88

USA pays nearly 18% GDP for healthcare. UK less than 10%. Guess what? The Brits Doodley Oct 2019 #90

Do they now? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #99

You didn't ask me, but here are some numbers dpibel Oct 2019 #104

Thank you for providing facts that every American should be aware of. Doodley Oct 2019 #107

Yo is Not "spreading rw propaganda".. He Cha Oct 2019 #12

Other nations do not have a population of Zoonart Oct 2019 #31

Thanks for the far right talking points. Doodley Oct 2019 #83

Other nations have two characteristics that we don't have. Blue_true Oct 2019 #79

I've heard the same talking points on Fox News. Ever heard of economies of scale? Doodley Oct 2019 #85

Shop around for MRI? Blue_true Oct 2019 #96

Why do you use the "LOL" when it comes to MRI? I don't find it funny that Doodley Oct 2019 #109

I would rather pay someone who is not going to rush through something Blue_true Oct 2019 #115

That's why we have the term "per capita" dpibel Oct 2019 #94

I understand what per capital means. Blue_true Oct 2019 #98

I'm afraid you are confused dpibel Oct 2019 #100

What are you missing? Lots. Blue_true Oct 2019 #101

Last go round dpibel Oct 2019 #102

Insurance companies have extensive claims and payment infrastructure in place. Blue_true Oct 2019 #116

Throw in free childcare for every baby, free college and eliminating student debt and I say we have UniteFightBack Oct 2019 #6

The Eye Popping costs of what we pay now are probably more. bullimiami Oct 2019 #9

Yup. We are already paying WAY MORE, inc bloated corporate overheads blm Oct 2019 #14

Overhead is an accounting term. It can be figured in many ways. That chart has no explanation. wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #20

Uh huh. No one at Physicians for National Health Program is smarter blm Oct 2019 #42

We spent $3.5 trillion, or $10,739 per person in 2017. angstlessk Oct 2019 #59

"Premiums would disappear, and 95% of all households would save money." blm Oct 2019 #10

Are you familiar with Medicare? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #13

Yes. It all needs an overhaul. blm Oct 2019 #15

Why becuase you think so? The American people do not think so. Supporting that is supporting trump wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #18

Majority of American people DO support single-payer. blm Oct 2019 #25

I'm 69 and have been on Medicare Advantage for 3 years and beg to disagree CurtEastPoint Oct 2019 #29

But, so many Democrats believe Medicare Advantage is a scam. Hoyt Oct 2019 #80

I have Aetna and I kinda hate them for some admin and CurtEastPoint Oct 2019 #112

I liked it. But if I were one of those who had to see a certain doc, take any medicine I wanted, Hoyt Oct 2019 #113

But those are all private health insurance companies eilen Oct 2019 #147

That's why there is choice, and one can go back to Medicare if Hoyt Oct 2019 #148

All fairy tales! Where is the study that supports all that? It is just made up shit! wasupaloopa Oct 2019 #16

Go to Physicians for a National Health Program site. There are blm Oct 2019 #21

I've been hearing that since 1977 when I worked for a state Medicaid agency, even believed it. Hoyt Oct 2019 #30

I don't disagree about a public option as first step. blm Oct 2019 #36

If only a Public Option had been enacted, 80% of population would be enrolled by now, close to MFA. Hoyt Oct 2019 #44

Exactly. blm Oct 2019 #46

Yeah. If only. kcr Oct 2019 #111

Let's use some arithmetic Midnightwalk Oct 2019 #19

"The US spent 3.5 trillion in 2017 and 3.5 * 10 is close to 34 trillion." AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #40

Doh l didn't say on healthcare Midnightwalk Oct 2019 #45

I think the nature of these discussion that center around the question of The Liberal Lion Oct 2019 #24

15-20% VAT MichMan Oct 2019 #70

I agree with you on both counts The Liberal Lion Oct 2019 #106

A VAT is a tax on the poor. former9thward Oct 2019 #138

The population of thoes 3 nations is approximatly 176million...combined. AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #72

Respectfully The Liberal Lion Oct 2019 #105

I respectfully disagree..it's a matter of comparing apples to a cactus. AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #120

Simple: put a tax on all Wall Street financial transactions CurtEastPoint Oct 2019 #26

✔️ blm Oct 2019 #39

In 2018 the US spent ... GeorgeGist Oct 2019 #34

The real question should be "How much does it cost now?" flotsam Oct 2019 #37

The real question should be "How much does it cost now?" flotsam Oct 2019 #38

The eye popping costs of Insurance executives-AND Boxerfan Oct 2019 #43

There you go, cut execs' salary to zero, and everyone would save 5 cents a month. Hoyt Oct 2019 #81

A nickel's a bit low. It's also irrelevant. dpibel Oct 2019 #114

$4 Insulin costs $400 a month wellst0nev0ter Oct 2019 #48

The rich will pay most of it. Joe941 Oct 2019 #50

Are you sure? Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #52

No they won't.....they will move their money. AncientGeezer Oct 2019 #121

They cant move money that hasnt been made yet. Joe941 Oct 2019 #125

It will bankrupt the country and people know it BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #53

It can be done. Turin_C3PO Oct 2019 #54

That is not MFA - that is extension of ACA nt BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #55

Yes. Turin_C3PO Oct 2019 #56

Yes -- but that will take years and I have no problem transitioning nt BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #57

Agree. That's fastest way to better healthcare system as long as so many are skeptical. Hoyt Oct 2019 #78

How does that work dpibel Oct 2019 #74

Currently, the entire spending comes from older, at-risk people BlueMississippi Oct 2019 #75

What? dpibel Oct 2019 #86

Thank you. Some of the arguments against single payer blm Oct 2019 #103

We are already well on our way to bankruptcy... Joe941 Oct 2019 #133

Americans are not ready for a 65% income tax PhoenixDem Oct 2019 #69

Haven't you heard? The rich will be paying for all of it MichMan Oct 2019 #71

lol PhoenixDem Oct 2019 #73

Where did you get that number, 65%? Turin_C3PO Oct 2019 #76

Over $10,000 a year for every man, woman and child in the US lapfog_1 Oct 2019 #77

You are right. These are bullshit numbers. They are talking point numbers that are there to help Doodley Oct 2019 #89

It is hard to believe dpibel Oct 2019 #91

Yes, it is real, but the idea that we have to almost double it to cover everybody is not real. Doodley Oct 2019 #93

I'm sorry. dpibel Oct 2019 #95

You are correct. I would say that all Democrats need to wake up to what you are saying: Doodley Oct 2019 #110

Because your math is wrong dansolo Oct 2019 #150

Beg to differ dpibel Oct 2019 #155

My source? The Urban Institute dansolo Oct 2019 #182

This is pretty wild dpibel Oct 2019 #97

excuse me but how much are we paying now???????????????????????? garybeck Oct 2019 #108

K&R!!!! iwannaknow Oct 2019 #141

Ron Brownstein tweet: highplainsdem Oct 2019 #117

"Coverage" does equate to access to care dflprincess Oct 2019 #118

the eye-popping... myohmy2 Oct 2019 #119

Joe Biden's health plan looks like the winner Gothmog Oct 2019 #123

We already pay it. gibraltar72 Oct 2019 #126

Yes!!!!!!! iwannaknow Oct 2019 #142

I thought Warren's M4A plan was (essentially) the same as Bernie M4A plan. If so, why only require in2herbs Oct 2019 #127

Warren Left $30 Trillion Short of Paying for Her Health Plan Gothmog Oct 2019 #130

40% is a pretty big fraction dpibel Oct 2019 #135

Let me simplify this Crazyleftie Oct 2019 #131

Well stated! iwannaknow Oct 2019 #139

Support for a public option has been increasing, and for Medicare-for-All has been decreasing Gothmog Oct 2019 #136

Why Elizabeth Warren won't talk about the cost of 'Medicare for All' Gothmog Oct 2019 #137

This is a bogus argument. Overall healthcare costs will go down with M4A. iwannaknow Oct 2019 #140

Societal savings are not tax revenues and cannot be used to pay for this program Gothmog Oct 2019 #143

I ask you again dpibel Oct 2019 #156

NYT-This Is the Strongest Argument Against Medicare for All- Gothmog Oct 2019 #161

Seriously? dpibel Oct 2019 #162

Read the Krugman article Gothmog Oct 2019 #163

This part? Or a different one? dpibel Oct 2019 #164

Still waiting, btw dpibel Oct 2019 #165

See post 167 Gothmog Oct 2019 #168

Again, read the material Gothmog Oct 2019 #166

Choices for Financing Medicare for All: A Preliminary Analysis Gothmog Oct 2019 #191

Thanks to none other than the the Koch brother we now know manintheback Oct 2019 #146

Actually, that Intercept claim is a little off, factually speaking ehrnst Oct 2019 #149

We still have NO concrete idea of how much "M4A" will cost overall. George II Oct 2019 #154

About 11% more than we currently spend dpibel Oct 2019 #158

my eyes popped. hope i can afford to get them fixed. haha. Kurt V. Oct 2019 #151

The discussion ends when you consider we are all human and should be better than this, meaning, yes rainy Oct 2019 #152

In 2017 total health care spending in the US was $3.5 trillion. mn9driver Oct 2019 #157

controling costs is the first step questionseverything Oct 2019 #159

Word of advice Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Oct 2019 #173

Honest question Skid Rogue Oct 2019 #170

I can prove MFA will save money for middle class at140 Oct 2019 #177

More boomer_wv Oct 2019 #178

Vs the eye poping cost of the current insurance system? Tiggeroshii Oct 2019 #179

It might be hard to quantify. Turbineguy Oct 2019 #180

A dose of reality for Medicare-for-all Gothmog Oct 2019 #187

Jennifer Rubin melman Oct 2019 #188

Choices for Financing Medicare for All: A Preliminary Analysis Gothmog Oct 2019 #189

lol melman Oct 2019 #192

Medicare for All's jobs problem Gothmog Nov 2019 #193

Nancy Pelosi is "not for doing away with Obamacare" and prefers to give people choices. Gothmog Dec 2019 #194