Democratic Primaries

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)

235. I'm not missing the point at all

Wed Dec 4, 2019, 12:40 AM

Dec 2019

Saying "it was diverse when it started" doesn't address the problem. A system set up that makes it more difficult for minorities to get past certain hurdles that aren't in place for white men is not fair, even if it allows minorities to make it into the very first pool.

You can argue and try to justify all you want but anyone who cannot see this, who doesn't believe despite all evidence to the contrary that Harris had to deal with a double standard that white men do not have to navigate either doesn't understand the pervasiveness and insidiousness of institutional racism in this country or understands it but doesn't care.

I assume you fall into the former category. But I just don't have the energy to try to engage on it any further. I'll leave it to someone else to try to explain it to you. I'm going to bed.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Kamala's departure reveals a problem the Democrats need to fix. Now. [View all] StarfishSaver Dec 2019 OP

Agree completely mcar Dec 2019 #1

I think it's noteworthy that of the six left on the debate stage... thesquanderer Dec 2019 #164

yep samnsara Dec 2019 #178

And any of them would be 10000x better than Putin's lap dog. BuffaloJackalope Dec 2019 #197

Agree totally Hulk Dec 2019 #200

They don't need to "fix" anything DrToast Dec 2019 #2

You're not serious, right? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #7

About what? DrToast Dec 2019 #9

The problem...in live and living color..... LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #38

that Gabbard and Yang are likely to make the next debate (n/t) thesquanderer Dec 2019 #150

Lol: "We have every kind of mix you can have. I have a black, Hortensis Dec 2019 #216

Your point on Black voters is right on. Blue_true Dec 2019 #232

Yes. Majority rules, and black and white together Hortensis Dec 2019 #241

Very well put. Btw, the last poll I saw had 1/2 Dems Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2019 #252

Oh, absolutely. Even honest professional pollsters get it wrong Hortensis Dec 2019 #253

+1 -K&R onetexan Dec 2019 #75

I understand your point. But the problem with "natural attrition" StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #220

What we need is DownriverDem Dec 2019 #155

You mean Klobuchar/Harris. Klobuchar/Abrams. Klobuchar/Booker joost5 Dec 2019 #173

Or squirecam Dec 2019 #182

Should white men drop out, and... Mike Nelson Dec 2019 #3

Yes, VP or AG. nt tblue37 Dec 2019 #8

Reminds me of the time I met with an organization who bragged to me about how diverse their all-whit StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #10

Let's try a quota system then bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #117

A quota system? cwydro Dec 2019 #199

Thank you for updating me... Mike Nelson Dec 2019 #242

You're welcome StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #243

I don't see Kamala making it as VP. LiberalFighter Dec 2019 #100

I agree. I think that rumour about Abrams 6 months ago is key. OnDoutside Dec 2019 #207

She would be more likley. But still doubtful. LiberalFighter Dec 2019 #210

The only way to "fix it" is to have a candidate of color get enough polling support to qualify scheming daemons Dec 2019 #4

*VOTERS* can't boost anyone at the polls if they don't get a chance to vote for them StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #13

When I said "polls" I meant in the qualifying opinion polls. scheming daemons Dec 2019 #17

So the polls should drive this before the voters ever get a say? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #48

Yes of course it does...because most candidates need money. That is political reality all candidates Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #59

Agree ... mr_lebowski Dec 2019 #105

It is ridiculous. You can give everyone the opportunity to compete...but some will win and some Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #228

That's kind of how it works. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #118

How else can the field be narrowed down to a manageable number, whatever that may be? pangaia Dec 2019 #159

DNC decided. It's built in - $ and poll #s. Personally think they started way too early Laura PourMeADrink Dec 2019 #251

no, but $ contributions are he reason harris dropped out....... She qualified to be on stage getagrip_already Dec 2019 #36

How do you suggest Democrats "fix" pollsters and pundits? TidalWave46 Dec 2019 #104

Has everyone forgotten about Cory Booker? luvtheGWN Dec 2019 #146

but he hasn't gotten enough support to qualify. (n/t) thesquanderer Dec 2019 #152

You can't fix it...and has POC supported her or Booker that would not be the case... Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #5

I think an election where we were not desperate to eliminate Trump would be different... hlthe2b Dec 2019 #15

I think you are right...and electability is very important when if we miss the mark Trump remains Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #37

Or three, or four... sop Dec 2019 #139

the old saying his complexion is pure gallows...Trump's is pure dictator. Yes you are right. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #187

This is exactly what underlies this. Biden is KPN Dec 2019 #51

Unlikely about Bloomberg who will never win a general. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #64

I would have thought that he could easily win the general election... Mars and Minerva Dec 2019 #86

He can't win the general...for the same reason Buttigeig can't...no AA support...he is the stop and Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #186

He only has to convince the AA community that he can win the general election. Mars and Minerva Dec 2019 #224

Not with his record...he will not win a general...won't win the Mid West either. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #233

That's not how he ran NYC. Mars and Minerva Dec 2019 #237

I think he could win the general, perhaps by a large margin. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #158

I will vote for any nominee...but he won't win the states we need...he loses the EC. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #184

As I said, why bother with primaries if "support" is determined by pollsters before anyone gets a StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #16

I thought she qualified for the next debate?????? Hassin Bin Sober Dec 2019 #27

She qualified for the next debate, but she's been treated as a loser for weeks because of her StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #28

I personally think everyone with low numbers should drop out...what is the point? Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #34

I'm pretty sure that public letter and resignation of one of her top aides didn't help. nt Quackers Dec 2019 #35

You assume that AA voters will vote for AA candidates...that is not the case this year...Harris Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #33

You have to be able to raise money in order to compete in a primary. This is how it has always been. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #250

We need to defeat Trump... FarPoint Dec 2019 #6

Much as he annoys me sometimes, Van Jones was just talking about this tishaLA Dec 2019 #11

This is true StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #18

And their resumes have to be Bettie Dec 2019 #40

Jackie Robinson and Obama had to be way better than their competitors, too The Mouth Dec 2019 #120

This. Jirel Dec 2019 #168

I'd agree with you of the coverage didn't affect the polls StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #171

I see this just the opposite way. Jirel Dec 2019 #193

A U.S. Sitting Senator is Out from the largest and bluest state in the Nation is Out... LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #76

I'm picking up this has more to do with money than race in Harris' opinion tirebiter Dec 2019 #12

This is nonsense. We had Obama as president. Hillary won the popular vote. redqueen Dec 2019 #14

Obama was president and that's proof that the playing field is perfectly even and minorities no StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #21

Strawman. It's proof that the primaries are not the obstacle redqueen Dec 2019 #23

What do you want the DNC to do? DrToast Dec 2019 #24

Does the DNC want to win in the future? LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #54

lol....figures DrToast Dec 2019 #56

LOL...TRUTH.. LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #70

The LOL is you can't even come up with a solution DrToast Dec 2019 #74

What's Funny.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #80

There is nothing to figure out...people appeal to voters...and there are polls and those candidates Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #71

So, why bother voting. Let's just pick our nominee with opinion polls? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #82

Post removed Post removed Dec 2019 #154

Bookmarking. n/t rzemanfl Dec 2019 #167

People have to be able to win...I think Harris made some real mistakes in this campaign which would Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #42

This.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #60

So is Barack Obama.... LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #44

What? nt redqueen Dec 2019 #57

Can't understand? LovingA2andMI Dec 2019 #62

K&R ismnotwasm Dec 2019 #19

While I very much disagree with all arguments that are based on electability... TCJ70 Dec 2019 #20

How do we know who she appealed to when not a single vote had been cast? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #25

So...what? 20+ candidates at every debate until voting starts? TCJ70 Dec 2019 #31

You have to be able to raise money in order to run for president...well before any votes are cast. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #47

We follow her lead. Quackers Dec 2019 #53

No one made her drop out. Loki Liesmith Dec 2019 #79

So you're saying that Delaney has the same ability to win as Warren? brooklynite Dec 2019 #140

+1 Docreed2003 Dec 2019 #175

First Step: Start the Dem primary season in states with greater diversity. JaneQPublic Dec 2019 #22

Thank you. StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #26

Do you think Kamala would still be in if the race started in California? Renew Deal Dec 2019 #49

Those polling numbers don't apply to a race that starts in CA. JaneQPublic Dec 2019 #58

She needs to advertise in CA? Renew Deal Dec 2019 #63

And they knew her equally well in Feb when she was polling at 53 percent. JaneQPublic Dec 2019 #94

Ahhhh, but you made my point Renew Deal Dec 2019 #96

No, you're point was that CA voters already knew her. JaneQPublic Dec 2019 #114

Which state should go first? Renew Deal Dec 2019 #116

We need a national primary Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2019 #147

Your solution for a candidate who can't raise money is to start in a State where money is critical? brooklynite Dec 2019 #143

THIS Takket Dec 2019 #203

The DNC has no say treestar Dec 2019 #255

But it has influence. JaneQPublic Dec 2019 #262

It's up to the state; hopefully anyone could have "influence." treestar Dec 2019 #263

And yet the FL and MI primaries are still in March... JaneQPublic Dec 2019 #264

It's almost like... SaschaHM Dec 2019 #29

This, a thousand times. spicysista Dec 2019 #46

He definitely has it. SaschaHM Dec 2019 #50

Biden doesn't use his debate superpowers against fellow Democrats. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #92

Thank you, Sacha StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #55

Well put, thanks. nt PunkinPi Dec 2019 #176

How are we supposed to fix something based of the choice of voters? IluvPitties Dec 2019 #30

Have there been any votes yet? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #65

And the media drives the polls to their benefit. nt Autumn Dec 2019 #217

Bless your heart nbsmom Dec 2019 #67

So.... squirecam Dec 2019 #189

She'll run 3rd party anyway Bettie Dec 2019 #221

Not this again treestar Dec 2019 #257

+1 treestar Dec 2019 #256

Wait...When Did Cory Booker Drop Out?? The_Counsel Dec 2019 #32

He hadn't qualified for the December debate as of today. nbsmom Dec 2019 #39

Seems Booker Should Be the One Dropping Out Then... The_Counsel Dec 2019 #77

or duval patrick..... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #45

Hmmm... are you just being obtuse here? nbsmom Dec 2019 #73

booker hasn't qualified either... (has he?).... but he is still in the race getagrip_already Dec 2019 #84

Gabbard is a POC as well dsc Dec 2019 #141

I Almost Forgot About Him. :-O The_Counsel Dec 2019 #81

nope, no chance given when he entered.... getagrip_already Dec 2019 #90

I Think His Plan Was to Focus on South Carolina as a Springboard... The_Counsel Dec 2019 #103

We still have women, Jews, a gay fellow, and a Russian asset IronLionZion Dec 2019 #41

I will vote for any nominee and I don't care who the VP is...for God sakes didn't we learn the Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #52

Booker talked about a big decrease in the turnout among African-Americans in Milwaukee IronLionZion Dec 2019 #66

Good thing that in Joe Biden we have a Democrat who is widely popular with black voters. The Valley Below Dec 2019 #78

Older black voters like him because of his past work with the black community on important issues IronLionZion Dec 2019 #87

I don't think that's the reason older black voters like him StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #95

Those are both good points IronLionZion Dec 2019 #113

There was also a great deal of voter suppression in those area...particularly Milwaukee...the Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #89

Examples? LAS14 Dec 2019 #181

I'll assume your question is in good faith IronLionZion Dec 2019 #211

First, thanks SO MUCH for assuming good faith on my part. LAS14 Dec 2019 #244

Each of us understands issues that impact us, but may not understand issues that don't IronLionZion Dec 2019 #249

How do they expect it to be fixed? Renew Deal Dec 2019 #43

Message auto-removed Name removed Dec 2019 #61

Pretty funny as I see a Biden/Harris ticket as landslide all beachbumbob Dec 2019 #68

I would prefer Stacy Abrams which give us a shot at Georgia and could help the Senate race too... Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #93

You will need to fix the Democratic electorate then Loki Liesmith Dec 2019 #69

What "electorate"? The people selected by pollsters to be polled? StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #88

Wrong on several counts. Loki Liesmith Dec 2019 #165

A prime example of institutionalized racism GitRDun Dec 2019 #72

The reason she is out is that she was not competitive with voters in South Carolina...nothing to do Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #101

Does not change the argument in the least. GitRDun Dec 2019 #130

I am against holding first two primaries in those states...but I doubt it would have helped Harris. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #156

No, the reason she dropped out was due to money. She said so herself. LonePirate Dec 2019 #148

She did not get money because she was not doing well with voters in South Carolina...AA vote is a Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #153

SC has hardly mattered so far. The state makes the news far less than IA or even NH. LonePirate Dec 2019 #163

Iowa and New Hampshire are not determinant this year...if she had support AA outside of these two Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #183

Sheesh TheRealNorth Dec 2019 #83

This. KentuckyWoman Dec 2019 #239

I might be white but I vote the person marlakay Dec 2019 #85

I agree with you...while race is in this country a factor as is misogyny...we must vote the person Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #107

I see that as African Americans marlakay Dec 2019 #115

I do too...when I asked my Gay daughter why she was not supporting Buttigeig (supports Warren) Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #192

One of my daughter's likes Biden marlakay Dec 2019 #236

K&R WhiskeyGrinder Dec 2019 #91

The DNC does not control who makes it thru. LiberalFighter Dec 2019 #97

I wonder if people here would be so cavalier about this if only men were in the next debate StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #102

Nobody forced Harris out DrToast Dec 2019 #106

That is going to happen because none of our women candidates are polling that well at Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #109

Warren isn't going away squirecam Dec 2019 #191

That is simply not true. Neither are doing well. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #198

Why do you not like men? TheRealNorth Dec 2019 #170

What has that got to do with the DNC treestar Dec 2019 #259

You should do some research on institutional raciam StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #261

Than that is on the states treestar Dec 2019 #265

As I said, you need to study up on institutional racism StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #266

It's so much easier to just blame the DNC for fixing it treestar Dec 2019 #258

It's partly result of Iowa and New Hampshire always going first Algernon Moncrieff Dec 2019 #98

South Carolina was the key for Harris...and she is not doing well there. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #111

It's also due to other factors, perhaps frazzled Dec 2019 #127

If she hadn't lied about Biden - OhZone Dec 2019 #99

Biden was VP for Obama bucolic_frolic Dec 2019 #108

The wrong person dropped out. Cartoonist Dec 2019 #110

I find that sad...I have had nominees that I liked better than others...but I always did my best to Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #119

I always vote blue Cartoonist Dec 2019 #126

We do seem to be good at that. Rainbow Droid Dec 2019 #144

I am sorry...misunderstood....yeah I have nightmares about this...I too fear Trump could win. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #190

That's why I prefer we get him now Cartoonist Dec 2019 #195

I wish we could but the senate won't convict. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #202

Attack your enemies' weak point Cartoonist Dec 2019 #205

Good point...something happened when he went to the hospital. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #227

I think that one of the issues that affected Harris is that black voters TexasTowelie Dec 2019 #112

Booker had issues in Newark that I find troubling as well. Demsrule86 Dec 2019 #122

Harris was my top choice until that info came out and she just didn't ease concerns. Chemisse Dec 2019 #166

Whoa everyone--we have a way to go and an open convention not to mention a VP to choose randr Dec 2019 #121

The comparison to the Repub debate is BS. onenote Dec 2019 #123

It's bizarre how media thinks Democrats always have problems. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Dec 2019 #124

And how we tend to perpetuate that.... TwilightZone Dec 2019 #151

This is how it has shaken out because of the polls madaboutharry Dec 2019 #125

"African-American voters are backing Biden in large numbers". crazytown Dec 2019 #133

I still think BigOleDummy Dec 2019 #128

I disagree with the tweets LeftTurn3623 Dec 2019 #129

Yes lunatica Dec 2019 #131

K&R . we gotta walk the walk. now Kurt V. Dec 2019 #132

Blaming potential voters probably won't accomplish much. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #134

Racial and Sexual equality means... brooklynite Dec 2019 #135

She didn't get enough support from potential voters. This happens every primary FloridaBlues Dec 2019 #136

It is not the party's fault Kamala did not manage her campaign properly RhodeIslandOne Dec 2019 #137

I am sure it has nothing to do with two of the whitest states in the country being the first to vote LonePirate Dec 2019 #138

Senator Harris main problem IMHO is she didn't have a clear message. Sound bites aren't enough still_one Dec 2019 #142

The Dem Primary has been vicious Dopers_Greed Dec 2019 #145

OMG this is the worst of the PC shot in the foot LiberalLovinLug Dec 2019 #149

SHE made HER choice. We dems had very little to do with it. Baltimike Dec 2019 #157

Sorry, I don't buy that one bit. Chakaconcarne Dec 2019 #160

Random twitter people awesomerwb1 Dec 2019 #161

Surely you can't be serious, and don't call me Shirley!!! Sparko55 Dec 2019 #162

So what's the solution? BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #169

Have we all forgotten that Democrats radical noodle Dec 2019 #172

The whole narrative is somewhat irrational. BannonsLiver Dec 2019 #174

Well, they did have Ben Carson and Herman Cain radical noodle Dec 2019 #179

its still got 4 women a gay guy and an asian guy.. samnsara Dec 2019 #177

I don't agree. ancianita Dec 2019 #180

Attorney General Kamala Harris has a nice ring to it. joost5 Dec 2019 #185

These tweets are incongruous with the fact that POC are supporting Biden, cry baby Dec 2019 #188

Some AA voters support Biden. Many support other candidates. That's beside the point StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #196

I believe it's more than "some". My point is that the Dems put forth cry baby Dec 2019 #201

But the party didn't "choose" anyone. Not a single vote has been cast StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #204

I can agree that the media shows bias, which can affect which candidate succeeds. cry baby Dec 2019 #206

I hear you - but praising "the field we started with" for its diversity while that field has been StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #208

I understand what you're saying. cry baby Dec 2019 #214

I hope we will StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #218

Me too! nt cry baby Dec 2019 #219

Welcome to every election ever. TwilightZone Dec 2019 #209

I know this is how it's worked for a couple of decades. It doesn't mean it's right StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #212

Yup... the problem being whistler162 Dec 2019 #194

Lots of factors cause candidates to fall in the polls ... StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #213

She shouldn't have assisted in the railroading of Al Franken or tried to paint Joe as a racist madville Dec 2019 #215

The attack on Biden was the beginning of the end. Mars and Minerva Dec 2019 #225

Truth! loyalsister Dec 2019 #222

It's very sad to see so many people here completely dismiss that component as if it doesn't exist StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #223

Very loyalsister Dec 2019 #226

I don't agree Jarqui Dec 2019 #229

You've missed the point StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #230

Oh squirecam Dec 2019 #231

I think you're missing the point Jarqui Dec 2019 #234

I'm not missing the point at all StarfishSaver Dec 2019 #235

Again, I disagree Jarqui Dec 2019 #246

Very well stated. Thanks. nt LAS14 Dec 2019 #245

How is this a problem of the Democratic party? Everyone knew the rules when they jumped in. Tarheel_Dem Dec 2019 #238

Agreed. Garrett78 Dec 2019 #240

It looks like Tulsi will be in for a while Jose Garcia Dec 2019 #247

How close is Booker to qualifying? NewJeffCT Dec 2019 #248

It's kind of how it works....Polls drive funding...it has squat to do with the DNC AncientGeezer Dec 2019 #254

Last time, there was one woman in the debates. Eric J in MN Dec 2019 #260