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Democratic Primaries
In reply to the discussion: If Bernie Does Not Win Primary, Will His Campaign Work to Defeat the Democratic Nominee? [View all]vsrazdem
(2,194 posts)17. No, but right wing talking points don't help.
http://www.centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/articles/did-bernie-sanders-cost-hillary-clinton-the-presidency/
Sanders effect on all voters
Of course, theres also the argument that Sanders undermined Clinton among all voters, not just her own. The argument has numerous prongs:
Sanders prolonging of the primary campaign past the point he was eliminated diverted resources from Clinton and fueled distrust of her.
Sanders did not work hard enough to get Clinton elected.
Sanders focus on the Democratic National Committees alleged rigging of the nomination fueled distrust of Clinton.
The first allegation is easy to disprove because it assumes, as do other arguments, that the non-Sanders universe did not have a vigorous primary challenge of Clinton. Sanders admitted that after the April 26 primaries that he was mathematically eliminated (the Democratic Party practice of allowing formally unpledged superdelegates to vote for a nominee makes such determinations inexact) and was only staying in the race to influence the party platform, eventually dropping out and endorsing Clinton two months later, a couple of weeks after she clinched a majority of delegates. This is typical behavior for eliminated candidates:
In the 2016 Republican primary John Kasich was eliminated in March and Ted Cruz was eliminated on April 19, but both stayed in the race in the hopes of making it to a brokered convention until after Trump clinched the nomination on May 3. In both cases they stayed in the race to deny Trump the nomination rather than affect the platform.
In the 2012 Republican primary both Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich stayed in the race well after they were mathematically eliminated. Paul was more like Sanders in that the impetus for staying in was to affect the platform, but Gingrich was merely attempting to deny Romney the nomination.
In the 2008 Democratic primary, Clinton herself was eliminated from winning a majority of pledged delegates sometime in April. However, she stayed in the race through June, endorsing Obama after he clinched the nomination on the last day of the primary season.
So, Sanders behaved exactly as many other eliminated primary challengers, including Clinton herself. Blaming a loss on normal behavior is disingenuous and, in this case, hypocritical.
The second allegation is also easy to disprove. Sanders fully endorsed Clinton at the convention. He campaigned for her regularly and told his supporters not to support third parties. Contrast this behavior to Cruz, who in a primetime convention speech told his supporters to vote their conscience (a rebuke of Trump that led to boos in the convention hall) while Kasich didnt attend the convention, never endorsed Trump, and wrote in John McCain for his vote. Trump has a far better case that Kasich and Cruz let Clinton get too close than Clinton has a case that Sanders cost her the presidency.
The third allegation is more serious than the other two, so it requires a bit of unpacking. In July 2016, WikiLeaks published internal DNC emails disparaging Bernie Sanders and his supporters, asking if there was a way to thwart him in the Kentucky and West Virginia primaries, calling him a liar, and generally being dismissive of his campaign. However, Sanders never walked back his support of Clinton. The blame here really belongs on a) the parties behind the disclosure and b) the inept leadership of the DNC, led by Debbie Wasserman Schultz.
Moreover, Sanders was never going to be the reason people attacked Clinton as crooked. She has been a national figure since the early 90s, and her husbands administration was constantly hounded by investigations and people in and adjacent to it going to jail. Republicans had known for decades that the best way to go after Clinton was by attacking her ethics. And Clinton indulged these critics by engaging in dubious if not illegal behavior like using a private email server and soliciting donations from foreign governments for the Clinton Foundation. Ultimately these decisions were her own, knowing that if she did run for president again shed be attacked like her husband was, and had nothing to do with Sanders.
So I dont see any compelling reason to think that Sanders somehow cost Clinton the election among people who didnt vote for him. He behaved no different than past defeated candidates for nomination (and was certainly more supportive than the candidates that Trump beat) and refused to turn himself into a victim after the DNC hack.
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided
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If Bernie Does Not Win Primary, Will His Campaign Work to Defeat the Democratic Nominee? [View all]
TomCADem
Dec 2019
OP
2020 looks a lot like 2016 REDUX. While I remain Undecided I have done some winnowing of the
abqtommy
Dec 2019
#5
If Bernie didn't care about the Democrats winning he would have run as an independent
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#11
Wrong. Your source makes no such claim. Your edit leaves a false impression
Tom Rinaldo
Dec 2019
#30
I've tried makin this point to no avail...some here have even actively ADVOCATED for Bernie to run
InAbLuEsTaTe
Dec 2019
#63
More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#15
More voters went from Hillary Clinton to John McCain in 2008 than went from Sanders to Trump in 2016
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#22
i don't respect him. he refuses to acknowledge his own role (as a conservative) in this shitshow.
Kurt V.
Dec 2019
#84
Survey Shows Fewer than 80% of Sanders Supporters Who Voted in General Election Voted for Clinton
Gothmog
Dec 2019
#98
Not sure I would take heart to information from a blogger member of the libertarian party.
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#126
I don't see any actual survey. I did however see the link to "see the story" which included
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#128
The poster won't respond to actual numbers. He or she prefer pulling up skewed studies that no
Blue_true
Dec 2019
#45
The person has had most of the night to respond to your post, crickets so far. nt
Blue_true
Dec 2019
#95
Sorry I'm not responding. I happen to be working, which I do 13 hours a day 6 days a week.
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#97
I don't know, do you think its true? I saw someone on THIS board, say they would not vote
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#19
Absolutely NO ONE has said or even remotely implied that they won't support Bernie as our nominee.
Blue_true
Dec 2019
#40
ABSOLUTELY FALSE!!! Someone on this board just this week stated they would not vote for Bernie
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#42
I hope that you called that person's ass out, because if I had seen it, that is what
Blue_true
Dec 2019
#46
I would be right there with you. I was quite shocked at that comment as it is the first time I have
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#48
He campaigned for the last one. I suppose he will do it for whoever the nominee is this time.
Autumn
Dec 2019
#27
He campaigned for Hillary. 52 events in 14 states, more than any other surrogate.
Autumn
Dec 2019
#52
They can't help themselves. Every post about Bernies causes severe anxiety and people just have
vsrazdem
Dec 2019
#41
Not only that, but some can't even find a SINGLE positive thing to say about Bernie
InAbLuEsTaTe
Dec 2019
#60
they live here , work here, and feel the traumas of the trump admin. not a chance.
Kurt V.
Dec 2019
#51
And there you have it, in case anyone doubted...at least your honest Chillactor in saying:
InAbLuEsTaTe
Dec 2019
#66
This is hillarious! If Bernie wins will Bloomberg work to take Bernie down? That is the question
floppyboo
Dec 2019
#69
Hard to disagree. The facts are many people think Bernie is right and many Dems think he's not.
KPN
Dec 2019
#103
Survey Shows Fewer than 80% of Sanders Supporters Who Voted in General Election Voted for Clinton
Gothmog
Dec 2019
#99
I guess it's no surprise that three of his top staffers (Turner, Gray, and Sirota) voted for Stein.
George II
Dec 2019
#81
Seems like a lot of circular reasoning. They aren't undermining the movement, they are the movement
KPN
Dec 2019
#102
Yes..He loves to attack Democrats..Bernie and his Bernie or Bust supporters
helpisontheway
Dec 2019
#107