Democratic Primaries

ehrnst

(32,640 posts)

188. It's as though the focus is to banish pharma and insurance companies, and people getting health care

Wed Mar 27, 2019, 07:21 PM

Mar 2019

is a secondary outcome.

I'm no fan of unregulated private insurance or pharma, but if it's a choice between actually getting UHC sooner by expanding on what we have in the ACA (which we know won't disrupt health care delivery,) and refusing to go foward with anything but MFA, which will not stand up if challenged all the way to SCOTUS, I'll take getting actual people actual care now.

If we were starting from scratch, that would be different, but that train left the station in the Truman administration. We had a chance again in 74, with a plan that Nixon put forth that was actually to the left of the ACA, but Democrats told Teddy Kennedy to walk away from anything but single payer.

It was one of Kennedy's biggest career regrets, because it made the perfect the enemy of the possible, and we might have something much closer to what the rest of the developed world has now. How many lives could have been saved, and how many people would have gotten care if only he hadn't said "single payer or bust."

We have another chance not to fuck it up with the ACA. It might be decades before we can get it to what we need, but we're at least on the road.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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Bernie Sanders opposes House bill to strengthen the Affordable Care Act. [View all] RandySF Mar 2019 OP

maybe he doesn't understand it JI7 Mar 2019 #1

Maybe Bernie DOES & understands that single-payer MFA is the ONLY solution to guaranteeing the right InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #55

So, having NO health care is better than an inferior one? brooklynite Mar 2019 #91

Why is it the ONLY solution? betsuni Mar 2019 #93

It's BS. for him it's all or nothing. Amimnoch Mar 2019 #97

Russia enid602 Mar 2019 #138

It isn't, of course NastyRiffraff Mar 2019 #168

A single-payer MFA will never pass. So why not support something that will pass? George II Mar 2019 #108

Yup, I gotcha... they said the same thing about the Civil Rights Act. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #112

No they didn't. George II Mar 2019 #117

+1000. No way it can even start the process until we have the house, Senate and WH. ehrnst Mar 2019 #131

ACA only goes away if MFA passes to replace it... it's not single payer or nothing. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #182

Again, we're not getting the Senate back any time soon, let alone SCOTUS. ehrnst Mar 2019 #184

He introduced it in 2017, do you know the status of it? Hearings, committee votes, floor votes? George II Mar 2019 #229

Criticize Bernie all you like... his ideas are catching on for a reason. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #249

I'll support the law we currently have and also support improving it. Not hitching my wagon... George II Mar 2019 #251

Senator Sanders is no LBJ. And Sanders doesn't have an MLK making the case to the public. ehrnst Mar 2019 #130

Using this analogy, it's like being against Brown vs. Board of Education because.... George II Mar 2019 #135

Exactly. (nt) ehrnst Mar 2019 #136

good analogy Celerity Mar 2019 #205

Millions of people are going to be hurt. And the civil rights bill was negotiated. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #152

Riiiight! Like all those tens of millions who will be given their constitutional right to healthcare InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #179

It would come too late for my daughter who will not survive until 2020 Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #183

It's as though the focus is to banish pharma and insurance companies, and people getting health care ehrnst Mar 2019 #188

+1 betsuni Mar 2019 #194

You said it better than I did. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #198

Your daughter and my youngest are to be collateral damage in the eyes of THE REVOLUTION Maru Kitteh Mar 2019 #203

I think that some people believe that THE REVOLUTION will be exempt ehrnst Mar 2019 #238

With current SCOTUS lineup? Riiiiiight. ehrnst Mar 2019 #186

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Mar 2019 #185

Can you support that allegation with objective evidence? LanternWaste Mar 2019 #261

Because it's about him and not about sick people lark Mar 2019 #256

So it is the perfect is the enemy of the good? Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #113

It's a dream. kstewart33 Mar 2019 #114

Well that's the spin.... BannonsLiver Mar 2019 #119

In the meantime, people get sick, have pre-existing conditions, etc. What about them? ehrnst Mar 2019 #122

Excellent post, and this is what it is--inexcusable political R B Garr Mar 2019 #139

MFA will be demonized in the general. No one should run on it. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #153

I agree 100%. If I were running, I would call M4A a mere slogan and suggest Kahuna7 Mar 2019 #262

Yep and it means universal care which is the goal. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #274

It isn't the only solution, and I would expect an experienced senator to know better. yardwork Mar 2019 #127

No it isn't. MFA is not likely to work as 0nly 17% of people are for it when told work place Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #149

Bernie just said True Blue American Mar 2019 #151

But he still won't vote for the only Healthcare that is possible? Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #154

That is what he said! True Blue American Mar 2019 #157

Dear God. I hope this now makes those that support him in the primary Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #158

Bernie is way too set in "his ways". SleeplessinSoCal Mar 2019 #196

Yeah... he only wants everyone in this country to have healthcare, as is their right. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #202

And if he can't get that for us today (he can't), then we deserve nothing? MrsCoffee Mar 2019 #240

Yeah I believe in nothing as the alternative... why make that up? InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #248

Not exactly what I said or meant. MrsCoffee Mar 2019 #257

and he needs to make it clear that Insurance will still be available. SleeplessinSoCal Mar 2019 #255

+1 sandensea Mar 2019 #258

It's fun (and certainly ethically convenient) to pretend there's only one solution LanternWaste Mar 2019 #260

Why? It's not the only solution in Canada, Germany, or Switzerland, pnwmom Mar 2019 #269

Maybe. But still question whether anyone should vote for him in a primary. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #165

Jesus. NurseJackie Mar 2019 #2

Pretty damn cruel dalton99a Mar 2019 #11

I don't understand is Sanders willing to have no deal since there is sno way we get MFA Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #150

Pretty much. tymorial Mar 2019 #102

Purity Nurse Jackie. Must. Have. Purity. BannonsLiver Mar 2019 #123

What good purpose does "all or nothing" serve when it means we get "nothing"? NurseJackie Mar 2019 #134

I heard the interview. TomSlick Mar 2019 #3

then why hasn't he passed it all in his many years in office ? JI7 Mar 2019 #5

As I understood him, TomSlick Mar 2019 #12

My take, dogman Mar 2019 #22

So says a millionaire who qualifies for medicare LuvLoogie Mar 2019 #36

No kidding. redstatebluegirl Mar 2019 #110

If that is his plan why would any Democrat vote for him in a primary? Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #156

All or nothing MyNameGoesHere Mar 2019 #95

Because, of course, he doesn't. Cha Mar 2019 #4

He knows it's time to go all in on Medicare for All. No more Incrementalism,especially with Trump Power 2 the People Mar 2019 #6

And let Americans pay the price with their lives in the meantime? RandySF Mar 2019 #10

This bill isn't going anywhere with the current senate or president. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #15

So? The bottom line is he's not prepared to support the position of the Democratic Party. George II Mar 2019 #45

Exactly. And he has no viable alternative, he admitted as much. nt Blue_true Mar 2019 #62

So can Bernie's alternative pass? Blue_true Mar 2019 #61

The world as it is means that bill or any other bill passed by Democrats is going nowhere in... Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #69

So if neither the democrats' bill or Bernie's plan now have a chance, Blue_true Mar 2019 #72

That's exactly what he is doing. He's sticking to his message. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #74

Did he even introduce "his" bill in the Senate yet? What were the votes for/against it? George II Mar 2019 #100

Well said!! InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #88

No, nor should it. It would paint those who vote for it socialist. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #167

They are as Sanders helps Republicans promote the image that... WeekiWater Mar 2019 #67

Lol. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #70

It's not that funny. WeekiWater Mar 2019 #71

My 22 year old daughter will not survive if the ACA goes down. She can't be without Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #170

So opposing a bill that is going nowhere is OK now, because the bill is futile? ehrnst Mar 2019 #137

It gives the GOP cover and helps Trump. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #171

Umm Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #174

And? (nt) ehrnst Mar 2019 #177

Yeah but it sounds more horrendous sensational to accuse Bernie and his policies of killing people. InAbLuEsTaTe Mar 2019 #254

If It no longer exists there's nothing to improve upon. Drumpf will get his way.Time to go all in. Power 2 the People Mar 2019 #18

Wow. You sound positively giddy over people losing their healthcare. Drunken Irishman Mar 2019 #129

That seemed to be the plan. TomSlick Mar 2019 #28

plus 30 million ( the amount who will lose coverage if Rump wins in the SCOTUS) Celerity Mar 2019 #35

+1,000,000 George II Mar 2019 #46

I guess BS doesn't care about that aspect. dubyadiprecession Mar 2019 #107

Not to mention this bill, or any other bill strengthening ACA, is DOA in the senate and Oval Office. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #14

+1 Power 2 the People Mar 2019 #19

We don't know that. The Gop is taking heat and this gives the GOP coverage. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #160

I have some bad news for you Trenzalore Mar 2019 #25

Don't be so pessimistic. We'll get there. Especially if Trump is dumb enough to kill the ACA. Power 2 the People Mar 2019 #30

I was around in 2009-2010 Trenzalore Mar 2019 #31

Actually,,,,, Eko Mar 2019 #49

Joe Lieberman, running as an Independent, watoos Mar 2019 #50

He was the Democratic nominee for VP in 2000 Trenzalore Mar 2019 #51

"We" betsuni Mar 2019 #92

Oh, yes we can disinherit Lieberman! True Blue American Mar 2019 #155

It's not 'pessimism." If Trump gets help killing the ACA from 'progressives,' that's the opposite ehrnst Mar 2019 #133

That is not true. We get nothing if Trump kills the ACA. THE Senate is tough for us, Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #161

I wouldn't bet on that one anymore. Amimnoch Mar 2019 #181

There is no way other than incrementally to retrofit the health care system in this country. ehrnst Mar 2019 #132

Yes and that is Ok. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #162

And yet you tried to push another article in GD that said he would support strengthening it. MrsCoffee Mar 2019 #241

Don't be ridiculous. I posted an article from the Huffington Post. I DIDN'T WRITE THE ARTICLE Power 2 the People Mar 2019 #252

Same ol' Bernie or Bust - Me or Nothing dalton99a Mar 2019 #7

What! mcar Mar 2019 #8

He came across as unreasonable, especially compared to Pete Buttigieg, who was interviewed next. highplainsdem Mar 2019 #9

YES Celerity Mar 2019 #38

Again, this is a perfect example of Bernie creating division in the Democratic Party. Stuart G Mar 2019 #64

I don't think Bernie is all that interested in the Democrat Party. kstewart33 Mar 2019 #115

I want the contrast to become plain in the first debate. nt Blue_true Mar 2019 #63

Yeah, so? NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT #ACA2 BEING THE END OF THE LINE. Cha Mar 2019 #13

He has healthcare SHRED Mar 2019 #16

Which is more than my kid will have if this causes us to lose the ACA. WHAT Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #172

There Are Some People Who Become Much More Stubborn as They Age dlk Mar 2019 #17

Again, similarities to the current White House are eerie dalton99a Mar 2019 #20

Yes dlk Mar 2019 #24

Right? MrsCoffee Mar 2019 #98

And some would negotiate away half of their position on a talk show. dogman Mar 2019 #26

And there are adults who know this symbolic bill is going nowhere in the senate or Oval Office. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #32

"All or Nothing" gets people hurt. Period. RandySF Mar 2019 #34

Walk me through how this bill does anything other than pass the house? Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #43

Beto: We will defend the ACA. We will protect the care of those whose lives depend on it. Cha Mar 2019 #21

He could never be an effective President Trenzalore Mar 2019 #23

Well said! NurseJackie Mar 2019 #29

" He has no concept of making things better instead of failing trying to make things perfect." Maru Kitteh Mar 2019 #204

Being an effective POTUS involves working well with others, and ehrnst Mar 2019 #239

And what are people supposed to do in the meantime? greatauntoftriplets Mar 2019 #27

You aware the republicans hold the senate and the presidency. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #33

It's known as "party loyalty" and solidarity. The fact that just hours before he said that.... George II Mar 2019 #41

So it's ok to bail on it? RandySF Mar 2019 #80

This message was self-deleted by its author RandySF Mar 2019 #44

Sadly, I'm not all that surprised with the answer. What DOES surprise me is Hayes' acknowledging... George II Mar 2019 #37

That was a pleasant surprise. Cha Mar 2019 #42

That's why he withdrew his support from Hillarycare. OhZone Mar 2019 #39

Exactly! It was the same BS back then. All or nothing R B Garr Mar 2019 #141

He also just threw the House Dems under the bus...including many who presumably support BOTH Cha Mar 2019 #40

He's doesn't support insurance industry healthcare. Pretty simple. jalan48 Mar 2019 #47

So he doesn't support thee health care that the vast comradebillyboy Mar 2019 #79

That most of those people Freddie Mar 2019 #89

No, he supports a single payer plan that does not rely on employers providing a health care plan. jalan48 Mar 2019 #116

You don't think healthcare is a right? BannonsLiver Mar 2019 #124

Thanks-I had it backwards. I need another cup of coffee. jalan48 Mar 2019 #140

Here is the clip Gothmog Mar 2019 #48

Mahalo, Goth.. smh Cha Mar 2019 #52

Charles (whoever that is) GABA tweeted a lie. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #54

"I helped write the Affordable Care Act. So I don't want somebody suggesting I'm trying to dismantle betsuni Mar 2019 #57

BS sure flipped a switch. Cha Mar 2019 #81

Not very consistent. betsuni Mar 2019 #84

Wow.. I'm guessing sirota and briahna Cha Mar 2019 #85

It's almost like he's a politician adjusting policy to changing conditions. betsuni Mar 2019 #86

Exactly, Paul Krugman! He gets it. Thank You Cha Mar 2019 #87

You're welcome for the quotes and thank you for the tweets! betsuni Mar 2019 #90

I think Chris Hayes, like many former supporters, has moved on at this point. N/T lapucelle Mar 2019 #94

Bernie won't support the Dems' efforts to bolster the ACA. Make no mistake: if the ACA goes Cha Mar 2019 #59

Bernie resents the Democrats like a deadbeat boyfriend resents his girlfriend's parents. LuvLoogie Mar 2019 #53

lol ... I was thinking of it as Bernie being resentful when his ex-girlfriend moves on from their SFnomad Mar 2019 #56

LOL... LuvLoogie Mar 2019 #58

+1 RandySF Mar 2019 #60

Apt description.:) True Blue American Mar 2019 #173

But Bernie is more of a Democrat than most Democrats, amirite? betsuni Mar 2019 #65

Love your first line. sheshe2 Mar 2019 #146

Being opposed to positive incremental change on an issue... WeekiWater Mar 2019 #66

This is what happens . . . peggysue2 Mar 2019 #125

When you take the progress out of progressive... sheshe2 Mar 2019 #187

He didn't even mention the ACA by name on his spot with Hayes tonight Starry Messenger Mar 2019 #68

Paraphrasing for simplicity BlueFlorida Mar 2019 #73

It was that all or nothing principle which facilitated putting trump in the WH still_one Mar 2019 #75

And, their "All" was based Cha Mar 2019 #76

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Mar 2019 #96

Would he Veto incremental reforms? WeekiWater Mar 2019 #77

Good point LongtimeAZDem Mar 2019 #78

And we all know, she was a bad egg ... SFnomad Mar 2019 #82

Sirota and Briahna were great hires. "Republicans are trying to repeal Obamacare and I don't support Cha Mar 2019 #83

Yeah...because he wants to go further with M4A. TCJ70 Mar 2019 #99

If one can't go the first few steps, how can one go "further"? And we should all remember this... George II Mar 2019 #101

So let's do it again. The ACA was a big step...let's take another one. n/t TCJ70 Mar 2019 #104

And that's what the Democrats are trying to do in the House. They introduced a bill... George II Mar 2019 #106

To be clear...I like the things in the proposal laid out yesterday. TCJ70 Mar 2019 #109

Not only will it not pass the Senate, it won't even be brought up in The Senate. Hassin Bin Sober Mar 2019 #121

So tell us then, when will "Medicare for All" be brought up in the Senate? George II Mar 2019 #197

Progressives Support Shoring Up ACA Before Tackling Medicare For All Cha Mar 2019 #195

Good to hear! betsuni Mar 2019 #199

Just another reason why BlueMTexpat Mar 2019 #103

++++++++++++++++++++++++ still_one Mar 2019 #105

Washington Post-House Democrats' health-care bill hurts Trump and Bernie Gothmog Mar 2019 #111

Like I keep saying, he's only in this thing for himself Blue_Tires Mar 2019 #118

YUUUUUUGE ego. yardwork Mar 2019 #128

Just heckles from the balcony section. Amimnoch Mar 2019 #247

Bye bye Bernie! BannonsLiver Mar 2019 #120

WTF, Bernie! yardwork Mar 2019 #126

This message was self-deleted by its author brandnewday2009 Mar 2019 #142

Bernie wants something much much better than the ACA..Medicare for all! workinclasszero Mar 2019 #143

The plural of anecdote is not data. TwilightZone Mar 2019 #144

Sure, I'm the only person in the entire country that the ACA didn't help workinclasszero Mar 2019 #145

I'm sorry you're "suffering" in a red state. Cha Mar 2019 #169

So what's the answer for 87000 uninsured in Missouri workinclasszero Mar 2019 #175

No one is talking about ACA being the end game.. Cha Mar 2019 #178

It is as ll we got. And all that we may ever have. How can he send thousands to their deaths? Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #163

Please don't add false information to this thread. TexasTowelie Mar 2019 #201

Just the facts.... workinclasszero Mar 2019 #210

Despite all of this information that you provided, TexasTowelie Mar 2019 #236

Dear Goddess, say it ain't so! sheshe2 Mar 2019 #147

Sanders needs to burn the village in order to save it...nt SidDithers Mar 2019 #148

Not all burned villages get saved and the harm to folks would be a horrific. Demsrule86 Mar 2019 #164

He lost my primary support Liberalhammer Mar 2019 #159

All I know, there is no incentive for me to vote for someone in the primaries who appointed three still_one Mar 2019 #166

+1 Kahuna7 Mar 2019 #259

This is making the perfect the enemy of the good thinking Trumpocalypse Mar 2019 #176

If we could get all or nothing.... LakeArenal Mar 2019 #180

We'd have nothing. betsuni Mar 2019 #189

"Single payer" wouldn't have passed, even with Democrats in the majority in both houses.... George II Mar 2019 #190

Sanders' new national press secretary weighs in on twitter: George II Mar 2019 #191

So what are the 20 million Americans at risk? RandySF Mar 2019 #192

Seemingly. Sad that for some people "politics" is a binary choice. George II Mar 2019 #193

I called it Last Night.. Cha Mar 2019 #200

I'll pass on BG's "Incrementalism is both a electoral & moral loser." Cha Mar 2019 #223

Yes, I agree, will pass on whatever she means by that. George II Mar 2019 #232

This message was self-deleted by its author Eric J in MN Mar 2019 #206

Bernie's point is that he's for Medicare for All. Eric J in MN Mar 2019 #207

Don't try to explain BS.. we know what he said.. Cha Mar 2019 #216

He helped write that "incremental" ACA. betsuni Mar 2019 #237

He said that he wouldn't support it, to me that's "no": George II Mar 2019 #242

Bernie has been in Congress since 1991 Eric J in MN Mar 2019 #268

Then, why did he co-sponsor the Senate version? TwilightZone Mar 2019 #250

Then he and I are quite done. susanna Mar 2019 #208

+1000000000000 betsuni Mar 2019 #209

Thank you, betsuni. susanna Mar 2019 #211

Anyone who can sit back and watch millions of Americans suffer and die for lack of health insurance workinclasszero Mar 2019 #212

OK, then explain to me the mechanism in how MFA works. susanna Mar 2019 #213

"The ACA is REAL. It is the LAW." workinclasszero Mar 2019 #217

I explained this in my post. susanna Mar 2019 #219

So you understand then why the ACA is a false savior for millions of Americans workinclasszero Mar 2019 #224

Of course I understand the support - who doesn't want it?! susanna Mar 2019 #226

It's amusing that this country can charge a trillion and a half dollars to throw at billionaires workinclasszero Mar 2019 #234

Well said. susanna Mar 2019 #244

As I explained to you in another post.. Cha Mar 2019 #215

So how much longer do millions of Americans have to wait until we get real healthcare for all? workinclasszero Mar 2019 #221

I'll go with the Wisdom of the House Dems on this.. Cha Mar 2019 #225

So much this. susanna Mar 2019 #228

I'm so sorry for what Cha Mar 2019 #214

Thank you so much, Cha. susanna Mar 2019 #218

Exactly, susanna.. Cha Mar 2019 #220

No, I'm in Michigan. :) susanna Mar 2019 #222

Aha! I had to ask.. Cha Mar 2019 #227

I'm jealous! susanna Mar 2019 #231

lol.. that's very Cha Mar 2019 #235

It's a beautiful state. susanna Mar 2019 #245

Nice talking to you, too, Cha Mar 2019 #263

Here are all the details, including summaries, the text of the comprehensive bill, lapucelle Mar 2019 #230

Mahalo, Ms Researcher! Cha Mar 2019 #233

Thank you, lapucelle... susanna Mar 2019 #266

I am so very sorry about your sister -- and glad that the ACA gave you a little peace of mind. pnwmom Mar 2019 #270

Thank you, pnwmom. susanna Mar 2019 #272

From Prof Krugman Gothmog Mar 2019 #243

"..he really needs to walk this back, clearly and unambiguously." Cha Mar 2019 #264

So when it comes time to actually HELP people and protect them he says NO! NOT PURE ENOUGH Maru Kitteh Mar 2019 #246

I prefer progress over purity with no results myself. Amimnoch Mar 2019 #253

Yeah, BS says he'll Cha Mar 2019 #265

Fair weather friend. ucrdem Mar 2019 #267

From the Hoarse Whisperer Gothmog Mar 2019 #271

Every time this thread gets kicked to the top, it makes me angry all over again... NurseJackie Mar 2019 #273