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Democratic Primaries
In reply to the discussion: We need bold, sweeping change, an FDR type change. Elizabeth or Bernie are the only ones capable. [View all]Scurrilous
(38,687 posts)36. Yep!
Fighting Words
<snip>
"Whats in a name? Franklin Delano Roosevelt called himself a Christian, a Democrat, and a liberal. He did not call himself a democratic socialist, or any other kind of socialist. He was, in fact, no socialist at all. Nor was he a conservative or a reactionary, although many on the socialist and communist left charged that he wasincluding the Communist Party USA, which attacked his New Deal for a time (until Moscows political line changed) as American masked fascization.
The only Americans who considered Franklin Roosevelt a socialist were right-wing Republicans. The New Deal is now undisguised state socialism, Senator Simeon D. Fess of Ohio declared in 1934. Roosevelt is a socialist, not a Democrat, Congressman Robert Rich of Pennsylvania announced on the House floor a year later. Roosevelt scoffed at such talk, but in 1939 he paused to present a very concise political dictionary of his own. A radical, he told the New York Herald Tribune, is a man with both feet firmly plantedin the air. A conservative, he continued, never learned to walk forward; a reactionary walked backward in his sleep. A liberal, though, used legs and hands at the behestat the commandof his head. The metaphor was poignant coming from him, but it also emphasized his point: In the face of all adversity, he was every inch a liberal."
<snip>
"The election of 2016 showed how confused these old labels and distinctions have become. The socialist senator Bernie Sanders, for example, rallying his supporters with a speech at Georgetown University in November 2015, offered a surprising definition of socialism, which consisted of a paean to FDR and the social protections ushered in by the New Deal. Almost everything he proposed, almost every program, every idea, was called socialist, Sanders saidas if the right-wing name-calling was the rightful definition.
Somewhere the ghost of FDR burst out laughing, while the ghost of one of Sanderss other heroes, Eugene V. Debs, scratched his head.
In a piece about that speech for The New Yorker, Jedediah Purdy remarked smartly on how Sanders, while waving the socialist banner and proclaiming a political revolution, consistently and conveniently defined his position from the right flank of history. That the economic royalists of the 1930s and their defenders called FDR a socialist evidently made it so. Never mind that the socialist leader Norman Thomas, when asked whether Roosevelt had carried out the Socialist Party platform, famously quipped that he had not, unless he carried it out on a stretcher.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/fighting-words/
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/fighting-words/
<snip>
"Whats in a name? Franklin Delano Roosevelt called himself a Christian, a Democrat, and a liberal. He did not call himself a democratic socialist, or any other kind of socialist. He was, in fact, no socialist at all. Nor was he a conservative or a reactionary, although many on the socialist and communist left charged that he wasincluding the Communist Party USA, which attacked his New Deal for a time (until Moscows political line changed) as American masked fascization.
The only Americans who considered Franklin Roosevelt a socialist were right-wing Republicans. The New Deal is now undisguised state socialism, Senator Simeon D. Fess of Ohio declared in 1934. Roosevelt is a socialist, not a Democrat, Congressman Robert Rich of Pennsylvania announced on the House floor a year later. Roosevelt scoffed at such talk, but in 1939 he paused to present a very concise political dictionary of his own. A radical, he told the New York Herald Tribune, is a man with both feet firmly plantedin the air. A conservative, he continued, never learned to walk forward; a reactionary walked backward in his sleep. A liberal, though, used legs and hands at the behestat the commandof his head. The metaphor was poignant coming from him, but it also emphasized his point: In the face of all adversity, he was every inch a liberal."
<snip>
"The election of 2016 showed how confused these old labels and distinctions have become. The socialist senator Bernie Sanders, for example, rallying his supporters with a speech at Georgetown University in November 2015, offered a surprising definition of socialism, which consisted of a paean to FDR and the social protections ushered in by the New Deal. Almost everything he proposed, almost every program, every idea, was called socialist, Sanders saidas if the right-wing name-calling was the rightful definition.
Somewhere the ghost of FDR burst out laughing, while the ghost of one of Sanderss other heroes, Eugene V. Debs, scratched his head.
In a piece about that speech for The New Yorker, Jedediah Purdy remarked smartly on how Sanders, while waving the socialist banner and proclaiming a political revolution, consistently and conveniently defined his position from the right flank of history. That the economic royalists of the 1930s and their defenders called FDR a socialist evidently made it so. Never mind that the socialist leader Norman Thomas, when asked whether Roosevelt had carried out the Socialist Party platform, famously quipped that he had not, unless he carried it out on a stretcher.
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/fighting-words/
https://democracyjournal.org/magazine/48/fighting-words/
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden
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We need bold, sweeping change, an FDR type change. Elizabeth or Bernie are the only ones capable. [View all]
brutus smith
Jan 2020
OP
Love 'em both too!! Glad the Bernie/Elizabeth team is reunited... they need each othe!!
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jan 2020
#126
I agree...it looks like we may have a play in Iowa which is shocking Joni the bull castrater
Demsrule86
Jan 2020
#14
The problem with that is that Biden does not offer the change American society needs.
LonePirate
Jan 2020
#28
Except for possibly restoring our standing with our allies, Biden offers nothing for the other items
LonePirate
Jan 2020
#34
Replacing the ACA is madness...we won't be able to do it...would take years...working with what we
Demsrule86
Jan 2020
#98
His climate change program is very strong, signed off on by the Sierra club. His education
emmaverybo
Jan 2020
#105
Indeed. Also, FDR was far more an establishment government 1% insider than either one.
ehrnst
Jan 2020
#39
ZIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING!! If we want REAL change, we should vote for the REAL progressive visionaries...
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jan 2020
#131
The socialists of his day called FDR a plutocratic corporatist and a war-monger.
The Valley Below
Jan 2020
#13
Yep. FDR has enemies on both flanks to deal with who were isolationists
The Valley Below
Jan 2020
#30
And Bernie is not proposing the collective ownership of the means of production and distribution.
Prosper
Jan 2020
#110
But that's what a few posters did earlier. They nitpicked FDR's accomplishment s
brutus smith
Jan 2020
#48
Kennedy was replaced by a democrat, so they had 60 until Scott Brown won in Massachusetts.
Blue_true
Jan 2020
#86
Ok. I get it. I forgot about the protracted situation in the Minnesota US Senate
Blue_true
Jan 2020
#100
Why Joe's not the answer. Only the Bernie & Elizabeth team guarantees victory over the Pee-resident!
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jan 2020
#128
FDR was an internationalist, pro-capitalist, pro-trade, anti-populist.
The Valley Below
Jan 2020
#12
To get an FDR type change, you need an FDR type Congress. Do you think Elizabeth or Bernie can
beastie boy
Jan 2020
#19
I thought Joe could bring people together? Your telling me he can't bring enough repubs over?
brutus smith
Jan 2020
#121
...going to just evade Bernie saying himself: "I don't consider myself a Democrat....
ehrnst
Jan 2020
#158
Interesting that it is primarily the Biden supporters that want to pick apart FDR.
rwsanders
Jan 2020
#83
Yep; people who invoke historical figures usually focus only on the superficial facts that bolster
LongtimeAZDem
Jan 2020
#58
+1000 "The house is on fire and Bernie and Liz want to talk about remodeling the kitchen".
UniteFightBack
Jan 2020
#74
That's under the current system. That's why the new green deal addresses this specifically
Kurt V.
Jan 2020
#142
No politician is perfect-not even Bernie, as many of his supporters claim
redstateblues
Jan 2020
#109
True, but Bernie's about as perfect a candidate as there is, with his bold progressive agenda
InAbLuEsTaTe
Jan 2020
#130