Democratic Primaries

Recursion

(56,582 posts)

183. I'm for free tuition

Sun Jan 26, 2020, 05:13 AM

Jan 2020

See, this is what bugs me. I'm for free tuition. Always have been. I'm against giving a trillion dollars mostly to the upper end of the income scale, but people have decided that you have to be for that to be in the DU in clique.

I don't want to spend public money to help a bunch of rich lawyers and MBAs. I also don't understand what's fundamentally wrong with a system where the richest third of the country is asked to pay back their student loans completely but everybody else gets an income-based repayment plan that retires the debt after 20 years. I'm all for making the income-based subsidy more generous; maybe cut payments on those plans in half, or by two thirds. That sounds like a great idea. But just paying off the loans of a corporate accountant who makes $250K while doing not a damn thing for an electrician who makes $32K strikes me as very regressive.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Joe Biden

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What about student loans constitutes a "crisis"? [View all] Recursion Jan 2020 OP

its a good campaign thing - vote for me and I will cancel all your obligations nt msongs Jan 2020 #1

The Democratic Party: confusing the aspirations of the middle class with the needs of the poor Recursion Jan 2020 #2

+1000 Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #46

Forgive all student debt now. Magoo48 Jan 2020 #11

That makes inequality worse Recursion Jan 2020 #13

No. It releases the youth of our nation to be dynamic and enthusiastic. Magoo48 Jan 2020 #16

Comparing student loans to indentured servitude is gross and offensive Recursion Jan 2020 #18

Perhaps I've only met the 2/3s of young citizens who are crushed and smothering Magoo48 Jan 2020 #20

They are "crushed" and "smothering"? Recursion Jan 2020 #21

And you have boomer_wv Jan 2020 #27

The median household income in 2016 was 59K a year. 55K is not rich. pnwmom Jan 2020 #72

Median individual income is $32K Recursion Jan 2020 #73

Most people in their 30's are in a household, and the household income's what is used pnwmom Jan 2020 #75

People in their 50s, 60s, and 70s plus choie Jan 2020 #130

Oh please...an exaggeration if I ever heard one. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #42

No, it is not better for our nation to do this...absolutely not. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #44

Our youth to run free? OK then. And where does this money come from? Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #48

Cut the bloated military budget and everybody has a free education and healthcare. Magoo48 Jan 2020 #62

Do you understand that what you suggest won't happen? How about some solutions for student Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #76

The difference here is I believe real change is possible. Magoo48 Jan 2020 #152

Not even close dansolo Jan 2020 #151

I disagree. Magoo48 Jan 2020 #153

It's not giving it to the richest 3rd of Americans. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #104

And THAT is why we lose....I'm DONE with losing. DEMS VOTE WITH YOUR HEADS. nt UniteFightBack Jan 2020 #26

This is primary season. Progressive ideas will not damage anyone's moderate stance or candidate. Magoo48 Jan 2020 #32

Is giving the richest 33% of earners a trillion dollars a "progressive idea"? (nt) Recursion Jan 2020 #70

You all act like mortgages, loans etc. just disappear...it doesn't work that way. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #41

Absolutely!! Not to worry... President Sander's got this!! InAbLuEsTaTe Jan 2020 #180

+1,000,000 highplainsdem Jan 2020 #30

The OP's claim is not true. Only 39% of federal debt is covered by loan forgiveness. pnwmom Jan 2020 #47

You can pay less though...and many do. I think something needs to be done...but forgiving all Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #49

The OPs claim is not true. And I don't even know what you mean by "you can pay less though." pnwmom Jan 2020 #50

It is not loan forgiveness...but you can't pay more than a certain percentage of your income...some Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #61

The OP isn't about the merits of Warrens or Sanders program. Regardless, the OP's claims pnwmom Jan 2020 #66

But that could change...and it would be easier than what Sanders or Warren has proposed. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #71

Again, I'm here to respond to the false claim in the OP, not to debate the merit pnwmom Jan 2020 #74

Fair enough and thanks for the website. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #77

Why not free college for any one who wants it? brush Jan 2020 #80

Because it leads to much lower college attendance rates Recursion Jan 2020 #84

Do you have a link to support that claim? Gore1FL Jan 2020 #105

Causality? Midnightwalk Jan 2020 #111

Hummm? Free higher education is bad for a country? brush Jan 2020 #114

No it can be very good for a country, the problem is it requires limiting who gets to go to college Recursion Jan 2020 #118

So we don't test at 13. We do it how America wants. We don't blindly follow the Germans. brush Jan 2020 #119

Because everybody would get the UBI Recursion Jan 2020 #121

That makes no sense saying there's money forthe UBI for even the... brush Jan 2020 #126

But not every one gets both. We're talking about loan forgiveness Recursion Jan 2020 #131

Please. That would make their college free too instead of being in debt... brush Jan 2020 #136

I think you're mixing up two proposals Recursion Jan 2020 #137

Not being consistent again. What makes you think only rich people go to college? brush Jan 2020 #140

People who go to college make a lot more money than people who don't Recursion Jan 2020 #143

Links please. You're not getting it that if you have thousands of... brush Jan 2020 #146

It is too expensive...And costs would rise to make it even more expensive. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #87

We subsidize the rich and poor alike with parks, zoos, sidewalks and streets and K-12. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #106

I am not...saw in GA what happens...they end up with most of benefits... Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #110

How does that translate in this case? Gore1FL Jan 2020 #122

Read my post...it explains what happened in Georgia where the benefits go mostly to the top Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #124

The only thing I found on your many posts was an unlinked reference to a scholarship. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #127

Exactly. If it's available to everone, no one is disadvantaged. brush Jan 2020 #116

But it's not available to everyone. It's only available to people with student loan debt Recursion Jan 2020 #138

Excuse me? Those with thousands of dollars of student loan debt... brush Jan 2020 #142

People who went to college earn more than people who didn't Recursion Jan 2020 #144

Newsflash: Not necessarily. It depends on what field you're in. brush Jan 2020 #147

Borrowing large amounts of money for a degree in a low paying field shows a lack of smarts MichMan Jan 2020 #154

So true, but many, particularlly in education, find quickly... brush Jan 2020 #171

Not really. The earnings bonus applies to all sectors Recursion Jan 2020 #158

i'm surprised you don't know this. In many states new teachers... brush Jan 2020 #172

Teachers get their loans forgiven after 10 years Recursion Jan 2020 #173

Get real, the low 30k range is not a high-paying job even if your loan... brush Jan 2020 #176

Which is why the loans are forgiven. Recursion Jan 2020 #177

And you won't acknowledge that there are many exceptions to that. brush Jan 2020 #179

Not in many cases. Many in the trades do quite well. You should research... brush Jan 2020 #174

Sigh Recursion Jan 2020 #175

Why do I have to keep telling you it depends on the field. brush Jan 2020 #178

You don't have to get a certain score on the SAT dsc Jan 2020 #135

OK, the others can get other training. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #148

Debt forgiveness doesn't make future education affordable Recursion Jan 2020 #149

It's a retro-active unscrew. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #155

Because, at the risk of flogging a long-dead horse, it's a huge giveaway to rich people Recursion Jan 2020 #157

No, it really isn't. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #160

College can be affordable MichMan Jan 2020 #162

When I was a kid, I went to UM-Rolla. I took 19 hours one semester for less than $1000. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #165

OK, first, let's reserve the word "rape" for sexual assault, not the lending of money Recursion Jan 2020 #170

It shouldn't be controversial on a Democratic site to undo Reagan. nt Gore1FL Jan 2020 #181

Actually, loan forgiveness would make it less affordable MichMan Jan 2020 #156

Or we could just fund education in this country again. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #166

Reagan has been out of office over 30 years. MichMan Jan 2020 #167

Now we are talking about undoing it and it's controversial. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #169

So explain to us why it works in other countries. brush Jan 2020 #115

Because the other 61% is held by the highest 33% of earners Recursion Jan 2020 #57

Yes, the OP explained those "rich" Americans were those with household incomes of $55K. pnwmom Jan 2020 #128

Individual, not household Recursion Jan 2020 #132

You show me where it says that. I had a student with a loan pnwmom Jan 2020 #133

It's based on how you filed the previous year Recursion Jan 2020 #134

Some really good video primers nbsmom Jan 2020 #125

It was a vexatious idea to get millennial votes NYMinute Jan 2020 #3

Bingo! Who doesn't want to vote for Santa? nt Kahuna7 Jan 2020 #15

I'm a fan of the idea of the government giving people stuff Recursion Jan 2020 #17

you know what the crisis is? liberalmuse Jan 2020 #4

Poor people don't have to pay anything back Recursion Jan 2020 #5

Stop the BS BillE Jan 2020 #33

That's why it's limited to 20 years Recursion Jan 2020 #40

And then you pay the mrs_p Jan 2020 #81

The tax hit is a problem I'd like to see fixed Recursion Jan 2020 #82

So do something about the interest...freeze it. That would cost way less money than Warren's plan. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #65

that issue is a bad one KT2000 Jan 2020 #6

The amounts are crazy high for students now -- college costs have been rising much higher pnwmom Jan 2020 #7

All student loans are forgiven after 25 years Recursion Jan 2020 #8

This message was self-deleted by its author pnwmom Jan 2020 #37

Interesting. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #51

Good point: private student loans are a whole nother world Recursion Jan 2020 #56

Never heard that. Throck Jan 2020 #67

Teachers squirecam Jan 2020 #107

I swear, medical professionals die in debt. Throck Jan 2020 #141

Teachers can have their loans forgiven after 10 years Recursion Jan 2020 #145

IBRs May be forgiven mrs_p Jan 2020 #83

Colleges breed their own inefficiencies bucolic_frolic Jan 2020 #14

It is just election year pandering NCProgressive Jan 2020 #9

20 years of ON TIME PAYMENTS Betty88 Jan 2020 #10

Well, you still get the discharge Recursion Jan 2020 #12

This is about Federal student loans and I see no blanket claim like you are making. pnwmom Jan 2020 #38

Then don't miss one or be late. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #53

Tweaks like that are a great idea Recursion Jan 2020 #59

I didn't know that. Is it automatically forgiven, or do you ecstatic Jan 2020 #19

you must apply for IBR handmade34 Jan 2020 #29

I'm not a millennial rabid_decline Jan 2020 #22

What do you mean you didn't qualify for income based repayment? Recursion Jan 2020 #23

Not when I ended up in the casino industry rabid_decline Jan 2020 #24

Obama really helped with student loans...I had kids in college before Obama and after Obama.. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #39

I'm a genxer...too..we all make choices. I went to state college and lived at home...worked my way Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #55

Great for him mrs_p Jan 2020 #86

I went to a reasonable state college and paid my own tuition. I had a full ride for my Masters Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #94

Did you research the salaries in Graphic Arts before choosing it? MichMan Jan 2020 #164

The fact that it usually can't be discharged in bankruptcy. Mariana Jan 2020 #25

I agree completely and that should be our first step. Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #36

"but never indicate what they think an appropriate amount would be" Tarc Jan 2020 #28

Why? Recursion Jan 2020 #43

K&R highplainsdem Jan 2020 #31

I'm 64 years old, retired & living on Social Security. rickyhall Jan 2020 #34

And there are lots of people like you. The OP is wrong. n/t pnwmom Jan 2020 #69

I was informed I should leave the party as I am not a 'real' Democrat if I don't support the Demsrule86 Jan 2020 #35

That's NOT TRUE. Only 39% of Federal student loans qualify for debt forgivenesss. pnwmom Jan 2020 #45

thank you for providing this link. 👍 Kurt V. Jan 2020 #54

As I said, the richest third of earners don't get that relief Recursion Jan 2020 #58

61% of Federal loans don't qualify for forgiveness, and it's not based on being "rich." nt pnwmom Jan 2020 #60

Read your link. 61% don't qualify for income-based repayment plans. Because they make too much Recursion Jan 2020 #64

You said a third, not 61%.And making 55K doesn't make you rich. The cities with the highest salaries pnwmom Jan 2020 #68

A third of Americans make more than $55K Recursion Jan 2020 #78

A person making 32K a year isn't "rich" because they live with another $32K earner. pnwmom Jan 2020 #89

There is no "qualification" other than income Recursion Jan 2020 #92

I posted two links, including one from the government, showing the basis for what I'm saying. pnwmom Jan 2020 #95

But you failed to post any example of a qualification other than income Recursion Jan 2020 #97

I posted this whole page from a government website. pnwmom Jan 2020 #100

For people who want real information, here is a government website pnwmom Jan 2020 #52

College Debt Is a Two Part Problem Throck Jan 2020 #63

You made a better decision based eilen Jan 2020 #161

Any Candidate Who Promises to Forgive Student Loan Debt Is Lying. MineralMan Jan 2020 #79

The extraordinarily high levels of student debt are an enormous drag on the economy dlk Jan 2020 #85

How so? Recursion Jan 2020 #88

You keep making claims with no data. But it turns out that you think a pair of 32K earners, pnwmom Jan 2020 #91

They're in the upper half of the income distribution Recursion Jan 2020 #93

https://www.yang2020.com/policies/student-loan-debt/ MerryBlooms Jan 2020 #96

Your argument isn't sane. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #103

Instead of starting businesses, purchasing homes, cars, etc, Americans are paying their student debt dlk Jan 2020 #113

Yang 2020: Reduce Student Loan Burden MerryBlooms Jan 2020 #90

Yup, and it's a much better plan than "forgive all student loans" (nt) Recursion Jan 2020 #99

Wait a minute squirecam Jan 2020 #108

Interesting fact: The failure of the student to matriculate can sometimes be due to illness or death nbsmom Jan 2020 #129

If people are spending their money on student loans... Act_of_Reparation Jan 2020 #98

College educated millennials on the average make over 100 thousand a year. Many in the tech emmaverybo Jan 2020 #101

It Becomes An Ever Greater Debtor Society Me. Jan 2020 #102

I wonder how many A. Einsteins, I. Newtons, W. Shakespeares, M.L. Kings were there... Gore1FL Jan 2020 #109

Where did you get your seriously inaccurate info on loan debt from? n/t kcr Jan 2020 #112

If you don't see anything wrong with putting most decent jobs out of reach without an education Doremus Jan 2020 #117

So tell businesses to stop requiring degrees Recursion Jan 2020 #120

I really want people with engineering degrees designing planes and cars. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #123

Me too, but I was talking about how just about any office job requires a college degree Recursion Jan 2020 #139

Conservatives are why we pay too much for education in this country JonLP24 Jan 2020 #150

The student loan system has contributed to the high costs MichMan Jan 2020 #159

I have an acquaintance with large loan debts who changed majors multiple times MichMan Jan 2020 #163

It isn't fair. Gore1FL Jan 2020 #168

Is this still a Democratic forum? BlueWI Jan 2020 #182

I'm for free tuition Recursion Jan 2020 #183

If you think that tuition free universities are a good idea, why not add that to your OP? BlueWI Jan 2020 #184

Because that's really not a Federal question Recursion Jan 2020 #185