Democratic Primaries

DanTex

(20,709 posts)

75. It's a simple factual observation.

Sun Feb 2, 2020, 12:33 PM

Feb 2020

No pro-NAFTA, pro-IWR candidates have won GEs. My support for Hillary in 2016 has nothing to do with it. Except that, after Hillary's loss, now we have more data than we did before. And the data showed that people like me were wrong.

And about Social Security, again, the cuts that Obama proposed were in 2013, after 2012. I don't know what ten-year old articles you're talking about, but Obama's proposed social security cuts were 7 years ago, not 10.

I'm not confusing the primaries with the GE. I know that primary candidates, in 2004 and 2016, have won despite being pro-IWR and pro-NAFTA. Those candidates went on to lose the GE.

The point being, if we want to win the GE, it might be a good idea this time to pick a candidate who was neither pro-IWR or pro-NAFTA.

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for: Undecided

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It's true. Bernie hasn't always gotten along with all his colleagues in congress. [View all] DanTex Feb 2020 OP

Being "right" is nice; so is being a " leader" brooklynite Feb 2020 #1

LOLed at "being 'right' is nice". DanTex Feb 2020 #3

Sierra Blanca sheshe2 Feb 2020 #56

Not sure what "A conservative group's Facebook meme" has to do with this. DanTex Feb 2020 #57

Did Biden personally financially profit from it... all the way up to 2014? ehrnst Feb 2020 #102

Crickets.... ehrnst Feb 2020 #111

Bazinga! George II Feb 2020 #47

And the Magnitsky Act (92-4) and Russia Sanctions (98-2), and the FDA Bill (94-1).... George II Feb 2020 #2

No response? sheshe2 Feb 2020 #45

.... George II Feb 2020 #48

Stir, stir, stir. Squinch Feb 2020 #4

Exactly. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #6

For a moment...thought you meant BS. ;) sheshe2 Feb 2020 #49

"Stirring" by talking about Bernie's congressional voting record. Hmmm. DanTex Feb 2020 #7

As a very accomplished cook, a decent amount of stirring is a very good thing ChubbyStar Feb 2020 #12

I think it's great that you're posting - thank you. David__77 Feb 2020 #20

His record. Hm. nt sheshe2 Feb 2020 #50

Attacking another straw man. I guess they're on sale? ehrnst Feb 2020 #113

Yes, and complete opposite land. nt R B Garr Feb 2020 #9

Followed by: TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #31

Great tune!! WA-03 Democrat Feb 2020 #103

I am unable to get on the Bernie bandwagon at this time. katmondoo Feb 2020 #5

Actually, the cool cat daddios are the ones raging against R B Garr Feb 2020 #8

What's popular in DC and what's popular among voters are different things. DanTex Feb 2020 #10

Again out of context. It's more like Twitter vs Real World. R B Garr Feb 2020 #16

Right, that Iraq War vote was totally taken out of context. Makes sense. Got it. DanTex Feb 2020 #18

Obama/Biden won two elections in 2008 and R B Garr Feb 2020 #22

Obama didn't vote for the Iraq War. Kerry and Clinton did. DanTex Feb 2020 #34

Obama/Biden. You are slamming Biden. Obama chose Biden, R B Garr Feb 2020 #46

I'm not slamming anyone. DanTex Feb 2020 #51

No offense, but the time you've taken off since being R B Garr Feb 2020 #52

Must have missed the "gap" where the Iraq War became a good idea. DanTex Feb 2020 #53

You said Democrats lost the GE because of Iraq. R B Garr Feb 2020 #54

I didn't say "because". DanTex Feb 2020 #55

Your theory doesn't hold up since Gore wasn't pure enough R B Garr Feb 2020 #58

President Gore disproves my theory? Is that what you're saying? DanTex Feb 2020 #60

Gore wasn't pure enough, either. Remember? R B Garr Feb 2020 #61

And your point is? DanTex Feb 2020 #62

Your Iraq theories have no legitimate context R B Garr Feb 2020 #63

I was a Hillary supporter, mostly because I believed the conventional wisdom that proved wrong. DanTex Feb 2020 #64

That's where it looks like your break from politics has R B Garr Feb 2020 #65

I didn't take a "break" and I'm aware of Bernie people voting Green last time. DanTex Feb 2020 #66

None of your Iraq theories have played out in the real world. They are simply newly adopted agita. R B Garr Feb 2020 #70

Huh? The theory that Dems who voted for IWR don't win GEs has been right every time. DanTex Feb 2020 #73

Huh yourself. Since you were a Hillary supporter, obviously your war on R B Garr Feb 2020 #74

It's a simple factual observation. DanTex Feb 2020 #75

This message was self-deleted by its author ehrnst Feb 2020 #76

No, it is a self-serving non sequitur, one you didn't engage in as a Hillary supporter R B Garr Feb 2020 #82

If I'm wrong, then name the pro-IWR, pro-NAFTA Dem candidate that won the presidency. DanTex Feb 2020 #85

You keep trying to conflate the GE with the Democratic primary. R B Garr Feb 2020 #87

That's right, you can't name one. Because when we nominate people like that, we lose. DanTex Feb 2020 #89

You keep trying to conflate the Democratic primaries with the GE. R B Garr Feb 2020 #90

Get back to me when you find that pro-IWR or pro-NAFTA Dem who became president. DanTex Feb 2020 #91

You have cherry picked a "concern" and obviously think those Bernie talking points R B Garr Feb 2020 #92

Still no examples. Hmmm. DanTex Feb 2020 #93

I've provided numerous "examples" of your conflating the Democratic primary with the GE, R B Garr Feb 2020 #95

"You keep trying to comingle issues." ehrnst Feb 2020 #100

Hm. Safe: proven leadership and record of accomplishment, tangible qualifications, trusted profile emmaverybo Feb 2020 #59

How did the Democratic Socialist with the huge huge crowds do in 2016? redstateblues Feb 2020 #67

In the primary, yes. Never had a chance, really, was way behind the whole time. DanTex Feb 2020 #69

He's way behind in the South. Again. Seriously, your theories don't match R B Garr Feb 2020 #71

"Betting markets" That's your source for political analysis? ehrnst Feb 2020 #80

By "safe" you mean Democrats chose one the most qualified POTUS candidates in history? ehrnst Feb 2020 #79

I doubt that being disliked by his colleagues has anything to do with his legislative record. beastie boy Feb 2020 #11

What unpopular decisions did he make that would've been best followed? That's the point of the OP. JudyM Feb 2020 #29

The OP is attacking a straw man. HRC didn't say that nobody "liked his votes." ehrnst Feb 2020 #88

No. The point of the OP is that if you don't go along with the crowd your popularity suffers. JudyM Feb 2020 #94

No. The OP is positing that it's not his personal manner that HRC is talking about, ehrnst Feb 2020 #96

You can try to spin this all you want, but you can't change Sanders' record and reputation. highplainsdem Feb 2020 #13

His reputation as an Iraq War buzzkill is rock solid. You're right, that won't change. DanTex Feb 2020 #14

Yeah, right, Sanders admitted he can be a nasty SOB because he's anti-war. highplainsdem Feb 2020 #17

And anti-DOMA, anti-NAFTA, anti-Social-Security cuts, etc. You know, he's for stuff people DanTex Feb 2020 #19

And anti-Brady bill, five times. Still, how is his anti-ness on those later votes responsible for highplainsdem Feb 2020 #21

Yes, even back in the 90s his principledness annoyed some people. DanTex Feb 2020 #25

Straw man... HRC didn't talk about his position on the issues or his principles ehrnst Feb 2020 #99

Saddam, Putin, Castro, Chavez/Maduro, Ortega, Qadhafi, Morales... OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #24

LOL. Are you arguing that the Iraq War was a good idea? DanTex Feb 2020 #26

No. I'm arguing that Sanders has a pretty poor record on standing against dictators. OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #27

Like...not wanting to overthrow Saddam? You disagree with him on that? DanTex Feb 2020 #28

Like having articles on his website touting Chavez-Maduro Venezuela and OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #33

I still don't get why you listed Saddam there. You think Bernie was Saddam-friendly DanTex Feb 2020 #37

Which dictator has Bernie stood up against? OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #38

So "standing against" Saddam means voting to go to war against Iraq? DanTex Feb 2020 #39

You evaded the question. OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #40

Umm, you brought up Saddam. If you think voting against IWR was a mistake because it was DanTex Feb 2020 #41

No, I brought up a pattern. A pattern you seem unwilling to address. OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #42

LOL. A pattern that started with "Saddam." Good luck with that. DanTex Feb 2020 #43

No. A lifelong pattern. OneMoreCupOfCoffee Feb 2020 #44

"Pattern?" 1999: Aide to Rep. Bernie Sanders Resigns Over War ehrnst Feb 2020 #86

Well, he did vote for the AUMF, didn't he? ehrnst Feb 2020 #81

So why weren't people "annoyed" with Paul Wellstone? ehrnst Feb 2020 #98

Worst OP of the weekend. Very silly. nt UniteFightBack Feb 2020 #15

Typical of the OP redstateblues Feb 2020 #68

DOMA and Iraq war are totally valid issues to consider. David__77 Feb 2020 #23

How about the 2001 AUMF? TwilightZone Feb 2020 #32

Sure - absolutely. David__77 Feb 2020 #35

There's plenty to attack Bernie on. Buzz cook Feb 2020 #30

The ability or lack thereof to work with others to get things done should be a consideration. TwilightZone Feb 2020 #36

if that were an accurate assessment Buzz cook Feb 2020 #72

I agree with O'Malley Gothmog Feb 2020 #77

Could someone explain how sanders' magical voter revolution works? Gothmog Feb 2020 #78

Without a magic voter revolution, sanders will need support from other people to get platform adopte Gothmog Feb 2020 #83

Attacking a straw man yet again... ehrnst Feb 2020 #84

So how how you think Paul Wellstone managed to be universally loved and be that far to the Left? ehrnst Feb 2020 #97

You don't seem to be undecided. grossproffit Feb 2020 #101

A weak socialist candidate like sanders can not defeat trump Gothmog Feb 2020 #104

He doesn't have to wish them Happy Birthday. Just get along enough to get things done. Obvious emmaverybo Feb 2020 #105

He doesn't get along, and he doesn't get things done. empedocles Feb 2020 #106

Thumbs up. In a nutshell. emmaverybo Feb 2020 #107

Nutstshell needs to include 'Trotskyite Socialist' - 'cons would have a ball. empedocles Feb 2020 #108

Cons are set to go on the communist/socialist theme. They are salivating at the prospect. And emmaverybo Feb 2020 #109

In the real world, socialism polls poorly Gothmog Feb 2020 #110

I dig your melodramatic narrative LanternWaste Feb 2020 #112