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Democratic Primaries

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Recursion

(56,582 posts)
Mon Feb 3, 2020, 06:21 AM Feb 2020

Student loan forgiveness will sink any candidate that runs on it. [View all]

There's two groups it infuriates, two groups that normally don't have anything in common: middle-class people who paid off their loans or never took any on, and people who didn't go to college in the first place.

We've seen the anger of the first group, in the form of that guy who confronted Warren. Yes, he was probably a plant, and this is an example of why plants like that work.

The second group, though, has what I think is a much more legitimate grievance. They're going to see their tax money go to people who are, almost entirely, much richer than them. As far as they're concerned it's going to be just like the tax cuts for people richer than them or the bailouts for banks a decade ago.

We stumbled with white people without college degrees in 2016, famously. Student loan forgiveness is like erecting a giant flaming "screw you" sign in their front yard.

This doesn't mean we can't do anything. Fund income-based repayment and public service repayment more. Limit interest to the inflation rate and don't recapitalize it. Allow student loans to be dischargeable like any other debt. Make colleges take on some of the financial risk with their students. These are all good ideas that don't enrage half of the country. (And when I say "enrage" -- remember that the Tea Party started as a response to simply the suggestion that the government pay off some of the mortgages of homeowners who were underwater).

People also seem to be confusing student loan forgiveness with free tuition. These are two completely unrelated concepts. Norway has zero tuition but their students take on a higher debt load than Americans, for instance. I paid zero tuition when I went to college because my famly was really poor but I still had to take on student debt because I have this habit of eating every now and then. But paying off existing student loans doesn't reduce future tuition, and reducing future tuition doesn't pay off existing student loans. These are unrelated questions.

Free tuition, though, is an interesting idea and one we should look at more. I think it tends to cause some changes that Americans may not like (countries that do free tuition wind up being much, much more selective about who gets to go to college than we are in the US), but it's definitely worth looking at and wouldn't cause a huge backlash like debt forgiveness would.

If we want to do a massive spending project to give everyone a nest egg, like Cory Booker advocated, and let people with student debt use that to pay if off, that's something we can sell. If we want to expand -- even massively -- the help we give to low-income people with student debt, that's also a politically feasible idea. But it is absolute fucking political suicide to say "we're going to spend a trillion dollars of tax money and most of it is going to go to people who are already rich".

If I were to vote in a presidential
primary today, I would vote for:
Joe Biden
49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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What an odd idea, what an odd piece. Who are you? Dorn Feb 2020 #1
Universal forgiveness does not fix a broken system exboyfil Feb 2020 #3
I'm someone who doesn't want to help already-rich people Recursion Feb 2020 #4
You must have really hated the draft dodgers who could afford moving to Canada jberryhill Feb 2020 #8
I wasn't alive then, but, sure, people get irritated at inequality, yes Recursion Feb 2020 #9
ah that is absurd dsc Feb 2020 #30
Ok, so, for those that went, and the survivors of the dead jberryhill Feb 2020 #33
that isn't what you said dsc Feb 2020 #34
There were plenty of people that had issues with Carter granting that amnesty, TexasTowelie Feb 2020 #45
You are right exboyfil Feb 2020 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author denem Feb 2020 #5
'They're going to see their tax money go to people who are ... much richer than them' denem Feb 2020 #6
Warren's plan is better than Sanders's in that sense, particularly with the repayment cap Recursion Feb 2020 #7
No it's not dansolo Feb 2020 #11
Bernie has spent his financial transaction tax about 10 times already (nt) Recursion Feb 2020 #13
Only 10? I counted 27 NCProgressive Feb 2020 #29
There just isn't enough money in wealth tax NCProgressive Feb 2020 #32
I like Warren's plan. I have no problem with loan forgiveness. The young of our nation have been KPN Feb 2020 #10
The income inequality between college graduates and non-graduates is already huge Recursion Feb 2020 #12
That's a gross generalization. There are millions upon millions of college grads KPN Feb 2020 #15
They're not making peanuts compared to high school graduates Recursion Feb 2020 #16
They are all making peanuts. Sorry. We disagree. KPN Feb 2020 #19
You know what high school graduates really love? Hearing college grads complain about Recursion Feb 2020 #24
This is an argument in service of the 0.1% of the nation... Moostache Feb 2020 #26
It'll never pass Congress and if done through octoberlib Feb 2020 #14
But UBI is the real winner, right? Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #17
Exactly. Everybody gets it. It's not just a giveaway to the rich like this is (nt) Recursion Feb 2020 #20
Not everybody gets it. Tiggeroshii Feb 2020 #22
As proposed it stacks with SS and Medicaid, just not with TANF or SSI Recursion Feb 2020 #23
Some workable ideas: Jake Stern Feb 2020 #18
All great ideas, which I think people would get behind (nt) Recursion Feb 2020 #21
yes, I think these are MUCH better ideas than loan forgiveness renate Feb 2020 #40
Great point! pattyloutwo Feb 2020 #25
I paid off my student loans. Zolorp Feb 2020 #27
KnR NCProgressive Feb 2020 #28
It would definitely look bad for Bernie, whose campaign co-chair Ro Khanna owes $50,000 LongtimeAZDem Feb 2020 #31
Agreed! No idea why more people don't see this. nt redqueen Feb 2020 #35
K&R! highplainsdem Feb 2020 #36
The ludicrous claim that college debt forgiveness kcr Feb 2020 #37
We can't talk about the people left behind by the economy Recursion Feb 2020 #38
There's the lie kcr Feb 2020 #39
You can want to help them all you want. *This plan* leaves them behind Recursion Feb 2020 #41
So, what percentage of Amiricans have outstanding student loans, MineralMan Feb 2020 #42
44 million Americans have outstanding student loan debt, or 13% of the population Recursion Feb 2020 #43
Thank you very much. I really appreciate that! MineralMan Feb 2020 #44
Is giving a flat rate of 1000 a month to every American fair? demofan40 Feb 2020 #46
Huh? It's literally called "Universal" basic income Recursion Feb 2020 #47
But why should everyone get Universal Basic Income? Or entitled to the same amount? demofan40 Feb 2020 #48
Umm... same reason everybody should get Medicare? Recursion Feb 2020 #49
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